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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> "Let's stomp on Constitutional Amendments" thread
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05/23/2013 02:29:05 PM · #1
Wow.

I love the move to recall the IRS employee who claimed the right to not self incriminate.

//politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/23/issa-will-recall-irs-official-who-refused-to-answer-questions/?hpt=hp_t3

Heck, given the way things are going, between the invasion of the privacy of the free press, the issues surrounding the 2nd amendment, and the suspension of the 4th during the Boston bombing, and now, apparently the assertion of innocence does away with the 5th amendment - I guess we should probably just accept that our leaders are now selectively ignoring whatever bits are inconvenient at the moment. A shame really.

Message edited by author 2013-05-23 14:32:24.
05/23/2013 02:40:09 PM · #2
If I was at the center of an action that the Speaker of the House had determined that someone must be jailed over, I would be rather careful about saying anything that might lead to me being the one who goes to prison.

Boehner on IRS scandal: “My question isn’t about who’s going to resign, my question is who’s going to jail over this scandal?”

Nice to see the sentence decided before the investigation has begun.
05/23/2013 02:45:41 PM · #3
The Obama admin has stomped on the constitution since day 1.....It has finally caught up with him. I hope some people go to jail over this. I also think it would be great if Obama was impeached.
05/23/2013 02:52:05 PM · #4
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

If I was at the center of an action that the Speaker of the House had determined that someone must be jailed over, I would be rather careful about saying anything that might lead to me being the one who goes to prison.

Boehner on IRS scandal: “My question isn’t about who’s going to resign, my question is who’s going to jail over this scandal?”

Nice to see the sentence decided before the investigation has begun.


But the joke is that now they're attempting to ignore HIS right to claim the 5th. It's just astonishing.
05/23/2013 03:00:59 PM · #5
How appropriate that the new PBS series on the Constitution (hosted by Peter Sagal of Wait Wait ... Don't Tell Me) airs this month.
05/23/2013 03:02:12 PM · #6
And, as if to add icing to the cake.

Originally posted by CNN:


President Barack Obama in a major counterterrorism speech Thursday defended the American drone program, saying that despite the controversies around it, the strikes are legal and save lives.

Obama said the use of lethal force extends to U.S. citizens as well. On Wednesday, his administration disclosed for the first time that four Americans had been killed in counterterrorist drone strikes overseas, including one person who was targeted by the United States.

"When a U.S. citizen goes abroad to wage war against America -- and is actively plotting to kill U.S. citizens; and when neither the United States, nor our partners are in a position to capture him before he carries out a plot -- his citizenship should no more serve as a shield than a sniper shooting down on an innocent crowd should be protected from a SWAT team," Obama said.
05/23/2013 03:19:55 PM · #7
Originally posted by CNN:


President Barack Obama in a major counterterrorism speech Thursday defended the American drone program, saying that despite the controversies around it, the strikes are legal and save lives.

Obama said the use of lethal force extends to U.S. citizens as well. On Wednesday, his administration disclosed for the first time that four Americans had been killed in counterterrorist drone strikes overseas, including one person who was targeted by the United States.

"When a U.S. citizen goes abroad to wage war against America -- and is actively plotting to kill U.S. citizens; and when neither the United States, nor our partners are in a position to capture him before he carries out a plot -- his citizenship should no more serve as a shield than a sniper shooting down on an innocent crowd should be protected from a SWAT team," Obama said.


I will tell you that if this had happened on W's watch there would be rioting by the media. I am not part of the "left-liberal media conspiracy" clan, but I can still feel there is some truth to the idea that Obama is getting more of a pass than former presidents would have garnered on things like this. To affirm that the US Government has the right to target and kill US Citizens with no form of due process is really a big, big deal.

As far as the IRS chick goes, I think what really rubbed people the wrong way (me, at least), was her preamble of "I did nothing wrong. We are total within the law. We have never lied." followed by..."I plead the 5th."

Message edited by author 2013-05-23 15:22:02.
05/23/2013 03:21:01 PM · #8
its gotten really bad for this administration, between Benghazi and now the IRS scandal to the DOJ probing conservative news agency now drone killings...

i realize politics are played but this is ridiculous.

i know the government never had my best interest at heart and was always just a bunch of self serving individuals, but this over the top, the house needs to be cleaned, i hope the American people wake up to this stupid game and start holding any and all of these dopes accountable.

and with respect to the drone killings, its policies like this that breed anti American sentiment. we fund these groups, give them guns to fight foreign wars for us and then are shocked, SHOCKED! when they turn on us.

its time more a more isolationist approach.

05/23/2013 03:22:57 PM · #9
Originally posted by DrAchoo:



I will tell you that if this had happened on W's watch there would be rioting by the media. I am not part of the "left-liberal media conspiracy" clan, but I can still feel there is some truth to the idea that Obama is getting more of a pass than former presidents would have garnered on things like this. To affirm that the US Government has the right to target and kill US Citizens with no form of due process is really a big, big deal.


i agree, something needs to be done, we need to... oh look, Kim Karashian has anew show on tonight...
05/23/2013 03:42:37 PM · #10
The problem with this administration is that in some lame effort to appease the good ol' boys of DC they agreed to not prosecute torture orders, not to look into the lying that brought us into an erroneous war, etc. these "Obama scandals" are chickenshit by comparison.

Message edited by author 2013-05-23 17:02:29.
05/23/2013 03:44:01 PM · #11
This admin has definately run amok. Now the real question is, how much did Obama know??? I think he had his hand deep into that cookie jar. Now it is up to congress to uncover all the answers. I do expect for some people to go to jail over this. When that starts happening information might start coming out of the woodwork
05/23/2013 05:00:57 PM · #12
You people DO realize that the IRS has been used as a political weapon by liberals and conservatives alike virtually since its inception? To use this as an example of the Obama administration "run amok" and call for Obama's impeachment on these grounds is to willfully ignore American history, LOL. I'd go so far as t argue there's little a sitting president can do to STOP the IRS from throwing its weight around.from
05/23/2013 05:17:11 PM · #13
Originally posted by DrAchoo:


I will tell you that if this had happened on W's watch there would be rioting by the media. I am not part of the "left-liberal media conspiracy" clan, but I can still feel there is some truth to the idea that Obama is getting more of a pass than former presidents would have garnered on things like this.


It raises an interesting point of perspective, actually, because this is front page news wherever you turn. It's even the BBC's lead story. The Daily Show is jumping all over it. It's being covered and analyzed and debated, there's no doubt about it.

So what's different?
05/23/2013 05:27:35 PM · #14
Originally posted by bohemka:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:


I will tell you that if this had happened on W's watch there would be rioting by the media. I am not part of the "left-liberal media conspiracy" clan, but I can still feel there is some truth to the idea that Obama is getting more of a pass than former presidents would have garnered on things like this.


It raises an interesting point of perspective, actually, because this is front page news wherever you turn. It's even the BBC's lead story. The Daily Show is jumping all over it. It's being covered and analyzed and debated, there's no doubt about it.

So what's different?


Under W it would be a front page story and the second page story and talked about 24/7 in the news-cycle. It would not only be front page news, but it would dominate op-ed columns and talking heads on TV. Which do you think has been more of a scoop so far? Waterboarding and torture under W or killing of terrorists or Americans by drones? Guantanamo was big news under W and, now, 6 years later, we hardly hear about it but the story is exactly the same. Why does Obama get the Guant pass while W was a terrible president for it?

Message edited by author 2013-05-23 17:32:21.
05/23/2013 05:39:46 PM · #15
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

You people DO realize that the IRS has been used as a political weapon by liberals and conservatives alike virtually since its inception? To use this as an example of the Obama administration "run amok" and call for Obama's impeachment on these grounds is to willfully ignore American history, LOL. I'd go so far as t argue there's little a sitting president can do to STOP the IRS from throwing its weight around.from


Bear I understand that the IRS has been used as a puppet. This is just the tip of the iceburg. Everytime you turn around there is more wrongdoing by this admin. This scandal just adds fuel to the fire. You add on top of this the DOJ, Benhazi, the FBI, and whatever other agency is involved. The pres had to know something about something. If not he either needs his hearing checked or his entire staff needs to be fired, or he is truly inept at his job. (not a bad idea there)

Message edited by author 2013-05-23 17:41:32.
05/23/2013 05:43:38 PM · #16
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

You people DO realize that the IRS has been used as a political weapon by liberals and conservatives alike virtually since its inception?


Can you give us some examples? I don't have this impression that this is just "more of the same". I also give Obama the benefit of the doubt about probably not knowing about it. How can you know everything? Hey Mr. President...did you know they are snorting cocaine off intern's breasts at the Dept. of the Interior? The government is a BIG place.
05/23/2013 05:50:16 PM · #17
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Bear I understand that the IRS has been used as a puppet. This is just the tip of the iceburg. Everytime you turn around there is more wrongdoing by this admin. This scandal just adds fuel to the fire. You add on top of this the DOJ, Benhazi, the FBI, and whatever other agency is involved. The pres had to know something about something. If not he either needs his hearing checked or his entire staff needs to be fired, or he is truly inept at his job. (not a bad idea there)

Adam, I don't care WHAT you add to the list, it's nothing new. This kind of shit goes on all the time and has for generations untold. It drives me batty to see you calling to IMPEACH the president for this stuff, acting as if "your side" hadn't done the same when it was at bat. W's administration was RIDDLED with crap like this. You do know that, right?

I'd be in favor of throwing ALL the bastards out of Washington (representatives, senators, presidents, cabinet, ALL of 'em) and starting over with a clean slate, if that were somehow possible, but it's wildly disingenuous of you to act as if this is a Democrat's problem and the "other guys" are on the side of the angels. You're not dumb. You know that isn't true.
05/23/2013 05:57:47 PM · #18
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

You people DO realize that the IRS has been used as a political weapon by liberals and conservatives alike virtually since its inception?


Can you give us some examples? I don't have this impression that this is just "more of the same". I also give Obama the benefit of the doubt about probably not knowing about it. How can you know everything? Hey Mr. President...did you know they are snorting cocaine off intern's breasts at the Dept. of the Interior? The government is a BIG place.

The obvious example is under Richard Nixon.

Originally posted by WSJ:

After Richard Nixon took office, his administration quickly created a Special Services Staff to mastermind what a memo called "all IRS activities involving ideological, militant, subversive, radical, and similar type organizations." More than 10,000 individuals and groups were targeted because of their political activism or slant between 1969 and 1973, including Nobel Laureate Linus Pauling (a left-wing critic of the Vietnam War) and the far-right John Birch Society.


Kennedy abused the IRS. FDR abused the IRS. There's countless examples you can dig up, going way back. The above quote's from The Wall Street Journal.

Originally posted by WSJ:

As David Burnham noted in "A Law Unto Itself: The IRS and the Abuse of Power" (1990), "In almost every administration since the IRS's inception the information and power of the tax agency have been mobilized for explicitly political purposes."
05/23/2013 06:02:03 PM · #19
Thanks. That's helpful. It's funny, I read a WSJ (or maybe it was Business Insider) article on the same topic and their impression was quite different. I wonder if I could still find it.
05/23/2013 06:19:12 PM · #20
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by bohemka:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:


I will tell you that if this had happened on W's watch there would be rioting by the media. I am not part of the "left-liberal media conspiracy" clan, but I can still feel there is some truth to the idea that Obama is getting more of a pass than former presidents would have garnered on things like this.


It raises an interesting point of perspective, actually, because this is front page news wherever you turn. It's even the BBC's lead story. The Daily Show is jumping all over it. It's being covered and analyzed and debated, there's no doubt about it.

So what's different?


Under W it would be a front page story and the second page story and talked about 24/7 in the news-cycle. It would not only be front page news, but it would dominate op-ed columns and talking heads on TV. Which do you think has been more of a scoop so far? Waterboarding and torture under W or killing of terrorists or Americans by drones? Guantanamo was big news under W and, now, 6 years later, we hardly hear about it but the story is exactly the same. Why does Obama get the Guant pass while W was a terrible president for it?


Maybe the news gets filtered in the USA Doc... I have heard several newscasts of late dealing with the very things you allude to and trust me when I say that President Obama most certainly did NOT get a pass.

Regarding the killing of Americans by drones, is there anyone here that can tell me (other than in the case of Anwar al-Awlaki if any of these people were specifically targeted or were they collateral damage... as has happened on numerous occasions, but I guess those don't count.

Ray

05/23/2013 06:22:29 PM · #21
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

... The pres had to know something about something. If not he either needs his hearing checked or his entire staff needs to be fired, or he is truly inept at his job. (not a bad idea there)


Funny thing about this comment is that the USA went to war looking for WMD... have they found those yet?

Considering the sheer size of the bureaucracy, and bearing in mind the prevailing CYA approach to things by the various players... I would not be be least bit surprised that the President did not know about a lot of things.

Ray
05/23/2013 06:29:08 PM · #22
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

You people DO realize that the IRS has been used as a political weapon by liberals and conservatives alike virtually since its inception?


Can you give us some examples? I don't have this impression that this is just "more of the same". I also give Obama the benefit of the doubt about probably not knowing about it. How can you know everything? Hey Mr. President...did you know they are snorting cocaine off intern's breasts at the Dept. of the Interior? The government is a BIG place.

A little off-topic, but do you know where I can apply for a job with the Dept. of Interior?
05/23/2013 06:29:14 PM · #23
Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Today's article in the NY Times about Obama's speech covering both drones and Guantanamo. The key paragraph:

Originally posted by NY Times:


Taken together, the president’s words and deeds added up to an effort to move the country away from the perpetual war on terrorism envisioned by his predecessor, George W. Bush, toward a more limited campaign against particular groups that would eventually be curtailed even if the threat of terrorism could never be eliminated.


Doesn't that paragraph strike you as a narrative that says W started it and Obama is working to stop it? It doesn't mention that Obama has continued, and expanded, the very same war for almost as many years as Bush (five versus seven). The numbers reported vary, but Obama has carried out something on the order of six or eight times the drone strikes W did. The death toll is about four times as high.

Message edited by author 2013-05-23 18:29:23.
05/23/2013 07:20:28 PM · #24
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

As far as the IRS chick goes, I think what really rubbed people the wrong way (me, at least), was her preamble of "I did nothing wrong. We are total within the law. We have never lied." followed by..."I plead the 5th."


It turns out that her preamble may be more than annoying. The fact that she read it may have been an implicit waiving of her 5th amendment rights. Doh!
05/23/2013 08:26:59 PM · #25
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

... The pres had to know something about something. If not he either needs his hearing checked or his entire staff needs to be fired, or he is truly inept at his job. (not a bad idea there)


Funny thing about this comment is that the USA went to war looking for WMD... have they found those yet?

Considering the sheer size of the bureaucracy, and bearing in mind the prevailing CYA approach to things by the various players... I would not be be least bit surprised that the President did not know about a lot of things.

Ray


Well actually we did have WMD in Iraq. It never made the media however. I cant understand that.

In Northern Iraq several engineering soldiers were hospitalized after finding a cashe of munitions with mustard gas (a wmd) in them. There was also tons of yellow cake uranium that was found in Baghdad. Now granted it is not like finding a nuke...but they were there
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