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01/20/2003 01:30:19 PM · #1
I recieved from one person rude remarks that I want to address...my photo is to small, grainy and out of focus...well here are my remarks to his inconsideration. My photo was a 2.0 mega pixel and in focus, when I went to submit it was way to big. I resized it to 25% to meet the size allowments and in doing that I lost the quality of the photo. As to being out of focus well not everyone has perfect weather conditions as he does being in Hawaii. I endured subzero temps and he has the lack of consideration and is rude enough to say these things!

Might I suggest that before you say something rude about someones photos you take the time to look at some of the art gallery photos that are selling for thousands of dollars. The beauty of them is there is always something out of focus. Also consider the photographers situation. A photo where something is out of focus may have to do with weather conditions that were beyond the persons control or could have even been done purposely. If you are such a great photographer, then why are you photos all chopped up and cropped down to the size permitted, why not once resize your so called perfect photos instead of cropping them. But then if you did that it might become obvious your photos aren't center. At lest when you crop them you can put your subject into the center.

I'm sorry for ranting like this but my photo was taken with 3 signs that all appear to be one under the other but in reality two of the signs were on one pole the thrid one was on another and not at the same head on angle, thus creating the out of focus appearance. I didn't appreciate his lack of knowledge in the matter and I really feel he should be less of a critic in the future.
01/20/2003 01:36:12 PM · #2
you are new here, so I should tell you that there are some out there that will be harsh in their judgement of photos. i am often very frustrated by things that are said about my entries and also get very frustrated by my score. this is a contest site, but try to brush off the remarks of a few and be proud of your creations...whether i come in first or last i am always proud of what i do regardless of what is said about a photo. the goal is to win, yes, but the road to winning will definitely include bad comments and low rated photos. just keep your head up and keep taking photos.
01/20/2003 01:41:10 PM · #3
hi photochix;

As far as resizing large files...you may need to get a software program that allows you to properly crop and then compress your photo without losing quality.

I work in the advertising industry and routinely compress files of over 2 megapixel down to 150k and lose no perceptable quality in a magazine print ad. I use photoshop mainly but the same results can be had with less expensive software
01/20/2003 01:48:36 PM · #4
When you submit a picture here, you are opening yourself up to critiques and comments from the general public. You are basically asking everyone to rate your photo and tell you how they think it could be improved. It would be nice if everyone could take the situation and limitations into consideration when making their comments, but the fact that we don't have that information available is part of the challenge. Your photos are shown alongside those of photographers who have more experience and better equipment than you do. The real challenge is to make your photos look good in comparison to the rest of the submissions. Of course, some people could have a little more tact and sensitivity with their comments, but you have to take the good with the bad. Many times, you can learn more from the comments that you don't like than from those that you do.

Message edited by author 2003-01-20 13:49:49.
01/20/2003 01:56:23 PM · #5
Noting that a photo is too small, grainy and out of focus isn't necessarily being rude. I'm not the one who made this comment (I do wish I were in Hawaii, however), but judging from your description I can see which shot is yours... and this person is right.

It doesn't look like the photo was necessarily out of focus, but I believe that when you sized it down, you may have used a method that distorted the shot a bit. If, by chance, you were using Paint Shop Pro, for example, be sure to use "resample" rather than "resize." If you used a different program, be sure to check to see if there's another method available for changing the size.

Your final image size was 320x240, about half of what people typically submit... and the file size was only 50k, which is 1/3 of what people can use. It will definitely save you some heartache if you learn how to use your software so that it can generate shots as large as the site allows, and at the best quality.

PS -- You're definitely going to need to grow some thicker skin to get the most out of this site. If you're here just to hear "WOW Great Photo!" -- you're in the wrong place. If you're here to learn how to improve your skills... you're here for the right reasons.

Message edited by author 2003-01-20 13:58:59.
01/20/2003 01:56:30 PM · #6
I too received rude remarks this morning from one person. I come into this with the advantage of working with a professional, my feelings are unless you are a professional art critic why say something hurtful. I wonder if this person's mother ever taught them if you can't say something nice don't say it.

Why hurt someone with an uninformed opinion, keep it to yourself unless you have the degree backing you and the professional knowledge that goes with. Without it all it is, is an uneducated person trying to belittle you and bring them down to their level.
01/20/2003 02:01:49 PM · #7
Although I understand your frustration, we do try to keep our photographs anonymous, i.e.. not discuss them openly while a challenge is being voted on.

;0)
01/20/2003 02:02:22 PM · #8
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

Why hurt someone with an uninformed opinion, keep it to yourself unless you have the degree backing you and the professional knowledge that goes with. Without it all it is, is an uneducated person trying to belittle you and bring them down to their level.


This is the wrong opinion for this site, actually. This is a group of mostly AMATEUR photographers giving you an unbiased and unlearned opinion. The benefit to this site is that there are very few "experts" among us.

By saying you have to have a degree to critique a photo defeats the purpose of this site.
01/20/2003 02:03:40 PM · #9
I agree that people don't need to be rude, but the uninformed beginners have votes that count as much as the professionals. Their votes of 1 and 2 hurt me more than their comments so I'd actually like to hear their reasoning behind it. Making your photos appealing to everyone, not just those with an art/photography background, is part of the whole learning process. There are already folks around here who are afraid of leaving comments b/c they don't feel qualified. IMO, if you vote on my image then you are qualified to give me your opinions on it. Noone says I have to agree or even take you seriously :P
01/20/2003 02:16:55 PM · #10
Originally posted by muckpond:

[quote=OneSweetSin]By saying you have to have a degree to critique a photo defeats the purpose of this site.


I'm not saying that, I am saying if you are uneducated in the photo world why say something cruel and hurt someone. I am new here but I am not new to the world of photography. I have awards for my work in 35mm going back 20 years, but I certainly don't feel anyone should be critized by someone without the credentials to do so. Its one thing to tell someone you like a photo its another thing when a person who lacks the knowledge cuts your work down. There would be a lot more members actively submitting photos if it weren't for the cruel remarks they recieve from the uninformed.

Simply said if you don't have the education why set out to hurt someone?
01/20/2003 02:17:47 PM · #11
Originally posted by PHOTOCHlX:

If you are such a great photographer, then why are you photos all chopped up and cropped down to the size permitted, why not once resize your so called perfect photos instead of cropping them.


Most photo's aren't cropped to the size, they are most often slightly cropped and then resampled to the size from very high resolutions.
And one thing that you learn here is that most of us don't want to center the subject at all! Check the learn, tutorials section on composition. More useful info there as well.
About the other stuff is enough said by others.

Good luck next time, when you have questions, don't hesitate to ask around in the Q&A forum.
01/20/2003 03:07:51 PM · #12
Originally posted by Azrifel:


Most photo's aren't cropped to the size, they are most often slightly cropped and then resampled to the size from very high resolutions.
Good luck next time, when you have questions, don't hesitate to ask around in the Q&A forum.

With Photoshop you can crop and re-sample in one operation if desired by specifying a fixed crop size...so far as I know it applies the same computations as performing the two steps successively.
You can check this gallery for an example (source and final images) of a photo more than "slightly" cropped.
01/20/2003 03:42:43 PM · #13
Originally posted by GeneralE:

[quote=Azrifel]
With Photoshop you can crop and re-sample in one operation if desired by specifying a fixed crop size...


I know. But I prefer to do it in two steps, don't ask me why.

The way I said it was because I think that the first poster in this thread thinks that we take 2000x1500 photo's and select a 640x480 portion out of that, without resampling.


01/20/2003 04:18:53 PM · #14
[quote=OneSweetSinSimply said if you don't have the education why set out to hurt someone?[/quote]

Is it okay to "set out to hurt someone" if we have a degree?

But, seriously, I've seen the critiques here from the under-educated complaining about things like selective focus, choice of B/W, composition, etc. that make anyone who's read a book or two cringe. But you've got to remember that that's what this site is about. There are lots of websites around where the fully initiated can hobnob with their brother wizards. What I get out of DPC is the chance to see what people who don't know much about photography think of my work.

In response to the OP, I think that if you submit an image that's half the usual size, and displays soft focus, you need to be ready for someone to tell you that it's small and soft. Nothing rude about that, unless it was worded differently from the way you represented it in your post. Nobody here knows why or how you reduced your photo to those dimensions, or that the atmospheric conditions when you made the photo were incondusive to proper focus (??), and it's not relevant. If you don't like to get critiques, the best place for your images is in an album on a shelf at home. Don't mean to be harsh (or rude), but that's the game we're all playing here.
01/20/2003 04:19:34 PM · #15
Photochix, welcome to the site. You have now been initiated. Congratulations. There are some things that you have to get used to like others have said. When you joined this site and submitted a photo you agree to have your photo commented on by other members. So when you get a comment that says your photo is too small, grainy, and out of focus, those are actually acceptable terms used in comments. I see nothing rude with that statement. I seriously doubt that the commentor was intending to be rude. It would be more tactful and professional to also provide some positive points about your photo but unfortunately some people don't always do that. That may have been inconsiderate but not necessarily rude. What most of us do when we get comments like that is to consider it very objectively to see if the comment really is true or not. Many times it is. We only have the photo to judge and we cannot know what difficulties you may have encountered in the creation of the shot. The history of the photo may make for a great story but it really should not influence anyones judgment of the photo. I hope you will understand this and really try to have some fun with this site. I'm sure in no time you will get used to things here. Most of us here are truly trying to be helpful.

T
01/20/2003 04:32:44 PM · #16
Hi Photochix! I submitted a photograph for the first time the other week, and my second comment ever, I felt was so mean and unecessary. I got really upset about it. I will note that the person changed their comment though, and made it much more acceptable and it actually helped me. I think that it's important to remember that we, as people can't please everybody all the time, and that's something I have been struggling to deal with for a very long time.
Just make sure you've pleased yourself in this instance. Ignored what you consider as a mean comment, and keep on going. I also agree with tim, I try to point out the good, as well as the bad things in comments (if there are any bad things). I wish you had a better introduction to dpc than I did... but it seems you haven't. I tell you from experience to just put it behind you, it seems to be the initiation ceremony for new photographers on the site :) hehe
Good luck on the challenge
01/20/2003 04:50:57 PM · #17
Originally posted by timj351:

It would be more tactful and professional to also provide some positive points about your photo but unfortunately some people don't always do that. T


Thank you for saying what I have been trying to say all afternoon. Photochix I checked the profile of the person with the negative comment about my photo, and found out that the person is also from Hawaii, I can't help but wonder if it was the same person having a bad day and passing it along to us trying to make us doubt ourselves. Anyhow Tim I totally agree if you are going to make negative comments about something also point out the positive points of it too.
01/20/2003 05:03:37 PM · #18
credential : OneSweetSin, I do not know your work, but as long as you submit here, everybody has credentials to comment your picture.
If you do not want to get comments .. do not submit. Pretty simple.

Cruel : And saying that something is out of focus and not interesting is not to be 'cruel' or I suggest people to go to their dictionary or look at the real cruelty in the world.

New people:And people new to the site will have to accept those, as everybody here does, but if you're not ready for comments ... do not expose your self to them here..
That said a lot of people are doing their best to give comments. so Welcome, .. submit ?? qnd comment pictures other are submiting .. this is how it works

Lionel

Message edited by author 2003-01-20 17:05:12.
01/20/2003 05:07:01 PM · #19
I know that I'm sometimes guilty of being blunt in my comments. I don't particularly like giving negative comments, but after some discussion here, I've come to the conclusion that the photos at the bottom of my rankings need comments more than the 6-10's.

Sometimes, to me, including a positive when I don't see one feels false. I'm not good at sugar coating and I apologize if it hurts anyone's feelings. That said, I don't think comments about technical aspects are neccessarily rude. Personal comments like "stupid", "lame" etc (which happen) are rude.

Like Tim said, everyone who joins the site goes through this. It's really hard to hear criticism of your work. In the beginning, I was mortally offended that people didn't like mine, but looking back, there's not a submission of mine that I wouldn't want to reshoot using some of the suggestions made here and come out with a better pic.

edited for stupid html error. :-)texttext

Message edited by author 2003-01-20 17:08:40.
01/20/2003 05:07:52 PM · #20
Originally posted by lionelm:

credential :

Cruel : And saying that something is out of focus and not interesting is not to be 'cruel' or I suggest you go to your dictionary or look at the real cruelty in the world.


EXCUSE ME YOU WEREN'T THE ONE THAT SAW WHAT WAS SAID...I was told part of my photo was out off focus but the comment went on to be very rude and degrading. I thought this was going to be a friendly competition but like Photochix seems to have stated, some not so nice person had the consideration to be degrading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
01/20/2003 05:15:12 PM · #21
We call them trolls and ignore them. They like to cause a ruckus and are probably having a blast with this thread.

The rest of us have no credentials but take our critiques seriously.

Also if a troll gives all low votes his votes get removed on Sunday night before the final tally.

Message edited by author 2003-01-20 17:17:39.
01/20/2003 05:18:05 PM · #22
true I did not read what was said. you're right on that, so I retract what I said about that because I do not know, but 'crual' is a heavy word.

But everybody get's a bad comment one day or another, it's bad to get it the first submission. this cannot be avoid. so be ready.
and be ready to nice comment too !

lionel
01/20/2003 05:21:13 PM · #23
WOW I had no clue this morning when I sounded off about someone being to harsh in his comments I would open up this kind of discussion. I just don't know how anyone can be so uncaring about someones feelings. Oh well I will get the last laugh.
01/20/2003 05:23:40 PM · #24
And by the way, this should be in the rant forum I guess.
01/20/2003 05:32:02 PM · #25
Originally posted by lionelm:

And by the way, this should be in the rant forum I guess.


You may be right but it also has to deal with results...oh well
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