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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Can the Pope really be this good of a man?
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03/28/2013 10:47:26 PM · #1
Honestly,

I am nearly beside myself watching the highest official of the Church act in a Jesus like manner.

The latest of course was his washing the feet of the convicts, which was surprising to say the least, but it's been, what? Two weeks? And so far the guy has been the most impressive religious figure I've yet to see.

I really am far too much of a cynic to yet admit that he has changed my opinion of religion, but if this was more of what religion represented I am quite sure that I would feel very differently about things.

Let's just hope this really does trickle down. Sure is nice to see at least in him, at least for now.
03/28/2013 10:53:41 PM · #2
This was something he did on a regular basis whilst in Argentina. He is fairly humble, lived in a small apt., regularly caught the bus to work etc. Nice to see a real change I say
03/28/2013 10:54:06 PM · #3


Message edited by author 2013-03-28 22:55:06.
03/28/2013 11:03:53 PM · #4
I was actually impressed with his stance on the environment... but washing of the feet? How cliche. This is the first I'm hearing of it though.

Washing of feet is so "look at me, I'm humble!" I'd rather him focusing time and energy elsewhere. Proving you are humble just proves the opposite.
03/28/2013 11:06:21 PM · #5
Originally posted by escapetooz:

I was actually impressed with his stance on the environment... but washing of the feet? How cliche. This is the first I'm hearing of it though.

Washing of feet is so "look at me, I'm humble!" I'd rather him focusing time and energy elsewhere. Proving you are humble just proves the opposite.


You impress me with your cynicism.. And I tend to agree - but while the feet washing is a bit of a show - the choice of WHO's feet he was washing is a very interesting departure.
03/28/2013 11:19:59 PM · #6
I have to agree with Cory in my being impressed by Francis thus far. I think, however, his humility and service is the tip of something within the faith that isn't usually sexy enough or controversial enough to report in the media.
03/28/2013 11:23:52 PM · #7
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

I was actually impressed with his stance on the environment... but washing of the feet? How cliche. This is the first I'm hearing of it though.

Washing of feet is so "look at me, I'm humble!" I'd rather him focusing time and energy elsewhere. Proving you are humble just proves the opposite.


You impress me with your cynicism.. And I tend to agree - but while the feet washing is a bit of a show - the choice of WHO's feet he was washing is a very interesting departure.


Hmmm... I don't think of myself as a cynic but I guess most people a bit of cynicism towards specific things. Mine is world leaders, not just religious leaders. ;)

But no really, I was pretty happy with what I'd heard so far. But seriously. Washing of feet? Come on.
03/28/2013 11:26:26 PM · #8
Originally posted by escapetooz:

But no really, I was pretty happy with what I'd heard so far. But seriously. Washing of feet? Come on.

The Pope does it every year at this time; just not to PRISONERS, or WOMEN, before -- usually to parishioners in Rome. It's part of the Easter celebrations. Jesus washed the feet of His disciples.

"And before the feast of the passover, Jesus knowing that His hour hath come, that He may remove out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own who are in the world—to the end He loved them. And supper being come, the devil already having put it into the heart of Judas of Simon, Iscariot, that he may deliver Him up, Jesus, knowing that all things the Father hath given to Him—into His hands—and that from God He came forth, and unto God He goeth, doth rise from the supper, and doth lay down his garments, and having taken a towel, he girded himself; afterward he putteth water into the basin, and began to wash the feet of his disciples, and to wipe with the towel with which he was being girded."

Wiki:

The root of this practice appears to be found in the hospitality customs of ancient civilizations, especially where sandals were the chief footwear. A host would provide water for guests to wash their feet, provide a servant to wash the feet of the guests or even serve the guests by washing their feet. This is mentioned in several places in the Old Testament of the Bible (e.g. Genesis 18:4; 19:2; 24:32; 43:24; I Samuel 25:41; et al.), as well as other religious and historical documents. A typical Eastern host might bow, greet, and kiss his guest, then offer water to allow the guest to wash his feet or have servants do it. Though the wearing of sandals might necessitate washing the feet, the water was also offered as a courtesy even when shoes were worn. I Samuel 25:41 is the first passage where an honored person offers to wash feet as a sign of humility. In John 12, Mary of Bethany anointed Jesus' feet presumably in gratitude for raising her brother Lazarus from the dead, and in preparation for his death and burial.

The Bible records washing of the saint's feet being practiced by the primitive church in I Timothy 5:10 perhaps in reference to piety, submission and/or humility.

There are several names and the spellings of this practice, being variously known as maundy, foot washing, washing the saints' feet, pedilavium, and mandatum.


Message edited by author 2013-03-28 23:31:06.
03/28/2013 11:30:45 PM · #9
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

But no really, I was pretty happy with what I'd heard so far. But seriously. Washing of feet? Come on.

The Pope does it every year at this time; just not to PRISONERS before -- usually to parishioners in Rome. It's part of the Easter celebrations. Jesus washed the feet of His disciples.


Hmmm. I get the fuss now but still think it's really odd...
03/28/2013 11:51:54 PM · #10
Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

But no really, I was pretty happy with what I'd heard so far. But seriously. Washing of feet? Come on.

The Pope does it every year at this time; just not to PRISONERS before -- usually to parishioners in Rome. It's part of the Easter celebrations. Jesus washed the feet of His disciples.


Hmmm. I get the fuss now but still think it's really odd...


Well, I think it's a REALLY good thing when religious leaders, at whatever level, remind the people that they are SERVANTS of the laity, not MASTERS of them. Humility is a Really Good Thing in a religious personage, I'm sure you'd agree. To the extent that the man rejects the trappings of the Imperial Papacy, all the pomp & circumstance of it, I'm 100% behind him :-)

Message edited by author 2013-03-28 23:52:08.
03/29/2013 12:10:18 AM · #11
Amazing! A religious leader actually doing the things the founder taught.
Genuine? To me, that depends on if it is calculated or a spontaneous expression of who he is.
So far, Pope Francis is being consistent - not just selectively "humble".
Jesus taught his disciples that the one who wanted to be the greatest must become the servant of all. Basically, that was the symbolism of washing the feet - in their society, always a servant's job. But Jesus, their teacher and leader, set aside his robe, and washed his disciples' feet.
And, yes, I do hope his example trickles down - not just to Catholics, but to others as well.
03/29/2013 12:19:07 AM · #12
Originally posted by dtremain:

Amazing! A religious leader actually doing the things the founder taught.
Genuine? To me, that depends on if it is calculated or a spontaneous expression of who he is.
So far, Pope Francis is being consistent - not just selectively "humble".
Jesus taught his disciples that the one who wanted to be the greatest must become the servant of all. Basically, that was the symbolism of washing the feet - in their society, always a servant's job. But Jesus, their teacher and leader, set aside his robe, and washed his disciples' feet.
And, yes, I do hope his example trickles down - not just to Catholics, but to others as well.


I certainly understand the symbolism but when entrenched with all the rest of the symbolism and pomp and gold and extravagance it seems so ridiculous.

I hope the folks here are right and this Pope does take things in a different direction. That would be nice change of pace.
03/29/2013 01:29:31 AM · #13
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I have to agree with Cory in my being impressed by Francis thus far. I think, however, his humility and service is the tip of something within the faith that isn't usually sexy enough or controversial enough to report in the media.

I see good deeds reported daily on the news, but they aren't associated with faith.
03/29/2013 01:44:05 AM · #14
Originally posted by bohemka:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I have to agree with Cory in my being impressed by Francis thus far. I think, however, his humility and service is the tip of something within the faith that isn't usually sexy enough or controversial enough to report in the media.

I see good deeds reported daily on the news, but they aren't associated with faith.


I'm sure you do, but I was making a specific point.
03/29/2013 02:26:32 AM · #15
Yep…. he is really good at doing what he is told to do by the high powered PR team that the Vatican has hired to counter all the bad press that is about to come out regarding paedophilia by priest and the fraudulent embezzlement of church funds!!! Sounds like a Dan Brown novel? Watch this space…..

How’s that for cynicism?
03/29/2013 02:30:27 AM · #16
You're cynical...like a boss!
03/29/2013 02:34:15 AM · #17
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by bohemka:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I have to agree with Cory in my being impressed by Francis thus far. I think, however, his humility and service is the tip of something within the faith that isn't usually sexy enough or controversial enough to report in the media.

I see good deeds reported daily on the news, but they aren't associated with faith.


I'm sure you do, but I was making a specific point.

I understand your point, and was suggesting that acts of kindness and good are attributed to individuals, while despicable acts are often associated with affiliations, religious or otherwise.
03/29/2013 07:03:44 AM · #18
Humility is a discipline. Lack of humility (pride) is a lack of discipline.
03/29/2013 10:33:06 AM · #19
Originally posted by EL-ROI:

Humility is a discipline. Lack of humility (pride) is a lack of discipline.


I feel that not having pride in oneself, and one's accomplishments is equally foolish to thanking Jesus for your rescue from the forest, and ignoring the SAR team who actually saved you.

Excessive pride is bad, but so is excessive humility, or any trait taken to excess.
03/29/2013 04:34:15 PM · #20
Originally posted by EL-ROI:

Humility is a discipline. Lack of humility (pride) is a lack of discipline.


Doesn't say much for some that practice their religion in ornate palaces, replete with stained glass windows, marble floors and gold chalices does it?

Mother Theresa was humble... most of leaders of the church, not so much.

Ray
03/29/2013 04:47:07 PM · #21
I am not a follower of the Catholic faith, nor do I know anything more about the new pope, other than what the media has decided to show me.

However, that being said... I'm wondering how DPC passing judgement upon a person whom we do not know, is any less hypocritical than some of us suppose him to be? Good or bad, it will show up in the long run, and the world will not need us to figure it out.

But we could take a picture.... ;-)
03/29/2013 05:40:53 PM · #22
Would he do it if the cameras weren't there?

Will he do it next Thursday? Friday? Or just when the media is there to report on it?

The best thing he could do would be to liquidate the church and use the funds to educate and feed the poor. Oh, and stop the church being hypocritical about contraception. And stop the church being hypocritical about homosexuality. In fact, just stop the church.
03/29/2013 06:14:40 PM · #23
[quote=RayEthier]

Doesn't say much for some that practice their religion in ornate palaces, replete with stained glass windows, marble floors and gold chalices does it?

No - but this practice has given the world some awesome art and architecture.
03/29/2013 06:17:50 PM · #24
Originally posted by mikeee:

Would he do it if the cameras weren't there?

.


Does the fact he's already been doing this for years in Argentina answer your question?
03/29/2013 08:14:35 PM · #25
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by EL-ROI:

Humility is a discipline. Lack of humility (pride) is a lack of discipline.


I feel that not having pride in oneself, and one's accomplishments is equally foolish to thanking Jesus for your rescue from the forest, and ignoring the SAR team who actually saved you.

Excessive pride is bad, but so is excessive humility, or any trait taken to excess.


I think that type of pride, being proud of one's achievements, is different than being prideful. Selfish pride (hubris) which is what I was referring to.

Also for Ray humility of character (modesty and respect) is different than being pious (modest living). Piety is alsoa discipline and it's opposite would be greed, which leads to that sense of need for gold plated chalices!
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