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03/12/2013 10:11:07 PM · #26
Originally posted by ambaker:

I don't like the idea of six strikes at someone else's whim. I do have my wifi password protected. However suddenly I am responsible for what another does with it? If I loan my neighbor a hammer, am I guilty if he uses it to break into a house? At least in the case of a neighbor, I would know who borrowed the hammer. In the case of Kelli, how does she know which child abused her trust?

The industry could not stop piracy, even with all their money and resources. Now suddenly, they want to make it my job... And I get six whole tries to get it right... Nice...


first yes, if you cant secure your wireless network, don't have one. second, she has absolute control over who accesses it, by restricting one its use and two who uses it. She is the adult. Tell the kids no downloading copyrighted material or better yet block them from even doing so.

they aren't making it your job to stop piracy, they are educating you and others that it is illegal, after 6 strikes what happens? NOTHING. and besides like i aid earlier if you get six strikes you deserve whatever punishment you could get. how many warnings do you need?

03/12/2013 10:13:28 PM · #27
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Kelli:



I think you missed a part. My network is secure. And no one uses my computer. They all bring their own. And yes, I'm the parent, but only of my own child. I shouldn't have to examine the computers of my son's friends. Your kids are still small Mike, so you don't really have much knowledge of parenting a teenager (which isn't the same as once being one). I wish you luck when you get there.


To be fair, I think you missed a part - the part where your network isn't secure at all.

If you're letting these kids on the network, and aren't restricting their access at the firewall level, they are able to transfer any data type, over any service.

Chatroulette and Torrents are only the beginning of the fun.


These aren't bad kids Cory. And my son doesn't have bit torrent on his computer. One out of the 5 that were here did and he apparently didn't realize it was running in the background (that kid shares his computer with an older brother). So it was an honest mistake on the part of the kid. But I got dinged for it.
03/12/2013 10:20:37 PM · #28
Originally posted by Kelli:

But I got dinged for it.


sorry, but you should have. you now have five more changes to get it right :)
03/12/2013 10:23:31 PM · #29
Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Kelli:

But I got dinged for it.


sorry, but you should have. you now have five more changes to get it right :)


Really? Sometimes I think you might just get a nose bleed from being up on so high a horse. I hope we're both still around when your kids hit the teen years.
03/12/2013 11:03:59 PM · #30
the air is quite thin up here and i don't always think straight.

the view sure is nice though.
03/12/2013 11:36:19 PM · #31
Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Kelli:

From everything I've read, the 6 strike thing is basically a fail proof way to sue the consumer.

Maybe the acronym should just be SOP (to the industry) ...

What I want to know is, given how often we've witnessed TV stations (and newspapers) appropriating photos without permission, will they be subject to losing their FCC license after six violations?


No, the stations are run by corporations, who sponsor the government officials. The government is not going to bite the hand that pays them off.


You can pretty much guarantee they'll only be going after individuals and small business. Remember the 12 year old the RIAA sued? The problem comes in with wifi. If someone gets on your wifi, you are responsible for what they do.

eta: Comcast will be charging a $35 fee to fight a false alert.


the false alert has no real penalty, if you get 6 you are doing something wrong. with wifi, ignorance is no defense, for more than this reason you ought to have control over who accesses and what they do on your network. if someone downloads child porn on your pc i imagine that will cause much more headache than one false strike out of six. :)


Child porn??? Where did that come from?

My problem with it is this, my son is 13. He's a good kid, no drugs, no smoking, no drinking. And he's on the geeky side. So, he has a group of kids come over with their laptops to play computer games. In order for them to do this they all need to log into my wifi. So this new 6 strike thing will force me to be the wifi police. I'll need to check their laptops, make sure they don't have any illegal software and don't have bit torrent downloaded or running (which btw, isn't illegal, there is plenty of legal content on bit torrent). I have a problem with that. So my choices are tell my son his friends are no longer welcome to come play games in my home, where I know what they are doing or let my son go to someone else's house where the parents may or may not care what's going on or make him stay home alone. And all this because even though the outrage of the masses prevented SOPA from being passed, the ISP's took it upon themselves to make up their own form of it.


the child porn came as an example of what could go wrong from not securing your network, it was simply a warning. you must maintain control of your network because guess who takes the blame when something happens on it.

c'mon Kelly, stop blaming the ISP for your lack of willingness to control you network, you are the parent right? wh would youlet teenager have free reign to the internet through your network. imagine IF they were doing something devious.

btw, you can block all that stuff in the firewall if you choose, let them explain why they need access to those sites.


Just name the SSID "FBI Surveillance Van". Network secured.
03/13/2013 12:55:57 AM · #32
Originally posted by ambaker:

I don't like the idea of six strikes at someone else's whim. I do have my wifi password protected. However suddenly I am responsible for what another does with it? If I loan my neighbor a hammer, am I guilty if he uses it to break into a house? At least in the case of a neighbor, I would know who borrowed the hammer. In the case of Kelli, how does she know which child abused her trust?

The industry could not stop piracy, even with all their money and resources. Now suddenly, they want to make it my job... And I get six whole tries to get it right... Nice...


The point about a neighbor borrowing a hammer, i find it interesting. Because what if the neighbor borrowed a gun. How would then be responsible for misuse??
03/13/2013 07:58:22 AM · #33
Originally posted by dmadden:



The point about a neighbor borrowing a hammer, i find it interesting. Because what if the neighbor borrowed a gun. How would then be responsible for misuse??


firearms are regulated and part of the contract of the government allowing you to own a gun is securing it.

wireless networks aren't regulated in those terms. No one is going to hold you responsible for illegal activity that goes on through your network, even as severe as child porn or hacking, but its going to be a mess for you, that's for sure. It may cost a tone of money defending it.

Folks are complaining about having to pay $35 to fight a strike. in the case of Kelli, the violation came from her network, she is absolutely liable for having to fight it. its not like the ISP screwed up and meant to get her neighbor (in which case i believe a reimbursement should be in order). She failed to secure her network for whatever reason, but the activity came from her network.

I also find it funny people are complaining about the six strikes when the former scenario was much worse. The MPAA and RIAA were dragging the offenders onto court and suing the shit out of them, that was the first offense, no warning, if you got caught you went to court and were force to pay thousands of dollars, even if your kids were doing it and you had no idea.

Now you get 6 strikes, six warnings, at worse maybe you have to watch a few videos on how piracy is bad and at worse have your internet throttled. again, you get SIX strikes, 6, how many do you need? 12? 15?

I don't get the outrage.

This law doesn't bother me, you know why? i don't download copyrighted material. And if i do somehow get a strike from one of my kids or their friends, that's the last time it happens.

03/13/2013 08:54:09 AM · #34
Yeah the 6 strikes rule is pretty rediculous. A real pirate could just hack into someones wifi...secured or not.... download what they want and then it will never effect them.
03/13/2013 08:58:22 AM · #35
Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by dmadden:



The point about a neighbor borrowing a hammer, i find it interesting. Because what if the neighbor borrowed a gun. How would then be responsible for misuse??


firearms are regulated and part of the contract of the government allowing you to own a gun is securing it.

wireless networks aren't regulated in those terms. No one is going to hold you responsible for illegal activity that goes on through your network, even as severe as child porn or hacking, but its going to be a mess for you, that's for sure. It may cost a tone of money defending it.

Folks are complaining about having to pay $35 to fight a strike. in the case of Kelli, the violation came from her network, she is absolutely liable for having to fight it. its not like the ISP screwed up and meant to get her neighbor (in which case i believe a reimbursement should be in order). She failed to secure her network for whatever reason, but the activity came from her network.

I also find it funny people are complaining about the six strikes when the former scenario was much worse. The MPAA and RIAA were dragging the offenders onto court and suing the shit out of them, that was the first offense, no warning, if you got caught you went to court and were force to pay thousands of dollars, even if your kids were doing it and you had no idea.

Now you get 6 strikes, six warnings, at worse maybe you have to watch a few videos on how piracy is bad and at worse have your internet throttled. again, you get SIX strikes, 6, how many do you need? 12? 15?

I don't get the outrage.

This law doesn't bother me, you know why? i don't download copyrighted material. And if i do somehow get a strike from one of my kids or their friends, that's the last time it happens.


From what I've read, you're actually quite wrong about this. There are consequences, one of them being you will be sued by MPAA/RIAA and you will have zero chance of winning because you have to acknowledge it's happening whether by you or someone else. Your internet will be throttled, etc. //torrentfreak.com/verizons-six-strikes-anti-piracy-measures-unveiled-130111/ But like you said, it won't happen here again, though I have to punish my son & his friends for doing something that they really didn't do. I don't like being the internet police. If I had wanted to become a cop, I would have.

eta: //torrentfreak.com/six-strikes-scheme-may-lead-to-lawsuits-against-pirates-121212/

Message edited by author 2013-03-13 09:01:29.
03/13/2013 09:06:21 AM · #36
If more infringements are found after the sixth alert “nothing” will happen. The user will receive no more alerts and can continue using his or her Internet connection at full speed.

However – and this is not mentioned by Verizon – the MPAA and RIAA may obtain the IP-addresses of such repeat infringers in order to take legal action against them. While the ISPs will not voluntarily share the name and address linked to the IP-address, they can obtain a subpoena to demand this information from the provider.

The potential for copyright holders to use the alert system as solid evidence gathering for lawsuits remains one of the most problematic aspects of the six-strikes scheme.


yikes, so after six attempts to get you to stop downloading copyrighted material the rights holder can find out who you are and attempt to sue you?

the horror!

sorry, i have no sympathy, this article is just a ploy by people who want to be able to download copyright material and feel they are entitled to continue to do so without repercussion.

03/13/2013 09:33:11 AM · #37
Originally posted by Kelli:

But like you said, it won't happen here again, though I have to punish my son & his friends for doing something that they really didn't do. I don't like being the internet police. If I had wanted to become a cop, I would have.



Originally posted by Kelli:

I've already gotten a strike from Comcast because one of my son's friends was here and used my wifi on his laptop that had bit torrent running.


I don't see how these two fit together.

So what is it your son's friend wasn't doing?

As to the role of cop, would you say the same thing if your son and his friends got caught shoplifting? It's part of being a parent.
03/13/2013 09:39:38 AM · #38
Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Kelli:

But like you said, it won't happen here again, though I have to punish my son & his friends for doing something that they really didn't do. I don't like being the internet police. If I had wanted to become a cop, I would have.



Originally posted by Kelli:

I've already gotten a strike from Comcast because one of my son's friends was here and used my wifi on his laptop that had bit torrent running.


I don't see how these two fit together.

So what is it your son's friend wasn't doing?

As to the role of cop, would you say the same thing if your son and his friends got caught shoplifting? It's part of being a parent.


The kid didn't know it was running (and maybe did not even know it was on there or what it does, the laptop is shared with his older brother). Not every 13 year old is as internet savvy as you. And shoplifting isn't in the same category. You can't accidently shoplift.

eta: And for the record, if my son was at a store with a friend who shoplifted and had nothing to do with it and no knowledge of it, he wouldn't be accused and punished.

Message edited by author 2013-03-13 09:41:42.
03/13/2013 09:43:02 AM · #39
Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Kelli:

But like you said, it won't happen here again, though I have to punish my son & his friends for doing something that they really didn't do. I don't like being the internet police. If I had wanted to become a cop, I would have.



Originally posted by Kelli:

I've already gotten a strike from Comcast because one of my son's friends was here and used my wifi on his laptop that had bit torrent running.


I don't see how these two fit together.

So what is it your son's friend wasn't doing?

As to the role of cop, would you say the same thing if your son and his friends got caught shoplifting? It's part of being a parent.


The kid didn't know it was running (and maybe did not even know it was on there or what it does, the laptop is shared with his older brother). Not every 13 year old is as internet savvy as you. And shoplifting isn't in the same category. You can't accidently shoplift.


i see your concerns but ignorance is never a defense.
03/13/2013 09:47:08 AM · #40
Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Kelli:

But like you said, it won't happen here again, though I have to punish my son & his friends for doing something that they really didn't do. I don't like being the internet police. If I had wanted to become a cop, I would have.



Originally posted by Kelli:

I've already gotten a strike from Comcast because one of my son's friends was here and used my wifi on his laptop that had bit torrent running.


I don't see how these two fit together.

So what is it your son's friend wasn't doing?

As to the role of cop, would you say the same thing if your son and his friends got caught shoplifting? It's part of being a parent.


The kid didn't know it was running (and maybe did not even know it was on there or what it does, the laptop is shared with his older brother). Not every 13 year old is as internet savvy as you. And shoplifting isn't in the same category. You can't accidently shoplift.


i see your concerns but ignorance is never a defense.


Ignorance has nothing to do with it. That's the point I'm making. I know pirating is wrong. Therefore I don't do it. I've taught my children not to do it. But, I shouldn't be responsible for everyone else. So your response is that I must police everyone that I want to allow to use my wifi. Say bye bye to free wifi. When all your chains such as Starbucks start getting banged with these what do you think they're going to do?
03/13/2013 09:47:25 AM · #41
Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Kelli:

But like you said, it won't happen here again, though I have to punish my son & his friends for doing something that they really didn't do. I don't like being the internet police. If I had wanted to become a cop, I would have.



Originally posted by Kelli:

I've already gotten a strike from Comcast because one of my son's friends was here and used my wifi on his laptop that had bit torrent running.


I don't see how these two fit together.

So what is it your son's friend wasn't doing?

As to the role of cop, would you say the same thing if your son and his friends got caught shoplifting? It's part of being a parent.


The kid didn't know it was running (and maybe did not even know it was on there or what it does, the laptop is shared with his older brother). Not every 13 year old is as internet savvy as you. And shoplifting isn't in the same category. You can't accidently shoplift.


Someone intentionally installed and set up that software. Have you talked with the kid's parents?

One of my friends in high school decided it would be great fun to stick a CD in another kid's backpack at the record store. The alarm went off when the kid left the store. Instant accidental shoplifting.
03/13/2013 10:03:51 AM · #42
Originally posted by Spork99:


Someone intentionally installed and set up that software. Have you talked with the kid's parents?

One of my friends in high school decided it would be great fun to stick a CD in another kid's backpack at the record store. The alarm went off when the kid left the store. Instant accidental shoplifting.


The kid lives with an aunt because the parents don't much give a crap. And I get the feeling she's only doing it for the money. The older brother is always in trouble, but the younger one is a good kid.
03/13/2013 10:10:25 AM · #43
Originally posted by Kelli:



Ignorance has nothing to do with it. That's the point I'm making. I know pirating is wrong. Therefore I don't do it. I've taught my children not to do it. But, I shouldn't be responsible for everyone else. So your response is that I must police everyone that I want to allow to use my wifi. Say bye bye to free wifi. When all your chains such as Starbucks start getting banged with these what do you think they're going to do?


ignorance has everything to do with it.

you are choosing to be ignorant of what people do on your network.

03/13/2013 10:17:29 AM · #44
Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Kelli:



Ignorance has nothing to do with it. That's the point I'm making. I know pirating is wrong. Therefore I don't do it. I've taught my children not to do it. But, I shouldn't be responsible for everyone else. So your response is that I must police everyone that I want to allow to use my wifi. Say bye bye to free wifi. When all your chains such as Starbucks start getting banged with these what do you think they're going to do?


ignorance has everything to do with it.

you are choosing to be ignorant of what people do on your network.


So give me your solution. Tell me, exactly how, short of not letting them on at all, I should police them? Help me in my ignorance. I'm not being sarcastic. I really don't have a solution to this.
03/13/2013 11:10:26 AM · #45
well for starters you can looking into blocking torrents sites in the firewall. but easiest is to sit your son down and say:

"We got dinged for someone downloading copyright material, this is serious, tell your friends to be aware of what their computer is doing or else I'm cutting of the internet."

If he values his internet he'll take it seriously.

Message edited by author 2013-03-13 11:10:58.
03/13/2013 11:44:52 AM · #46
Originally posted by mike_311:

well for starters you can looking into blocking torrents sites in the firewall. but easiest is to sit your son down and say:

"We got dinged for someone downloading copyright material, this is serious, tell your friends to be aware of what their computer is doing or else I'm cutting of the internet."

If he values his internet he'll take it seriously.


I could be wrong, but it seems you can only block torrents from each individual computer. Meaning I can block my desktop, but this wouldn't effect anyone using wifi. I am not hardware knowledgeable, so if you are explain it to me. I have two desktops that are directly plugged into my modem/router. Then between my immediate family there are two laptops, four smartphones, 2 tablets, an xbox 360 and a Wii on wifi. None of those devices show up on my network when I open task manager (just the two desktops). My modem/router is from comcast. I can't rename it and I can't change the password which is the serial number. But like I said, the problem wasn't my own family members. Do I need to inspect these kids computers. Do I need to go into each kid's computer when they come over and go into their windows firewall and block them each individually?
03/13/2013 12:12:53 PM · #47
the router should have some sort of firewall, call comcast and ask them, you could even tell tech support your plight and ask them for guidance.

there are multiple ways to go about it. you can block the port range the torrent clients use, you can block websites, so can restrict access of certain IPs and force the guests to use those IPs...if they game on their pcs you can block all ports and only allow the ones the game needs, etc.

unfortunately i don't know enough off the top of my head or what access they do require to give you exact instruction, so Google is your friend.

Message edited by author 2013-03-13 12:13:11.
03/13/2013 12:13:59 PM · #48
Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by mike_311:

well for starters you can looking into blocking torrents sites in the firewall. but easiest is to sit your son down and say:

"We got dinged for someone downloading copyright material, this is serious, tell your friends to be aware of what their computer is doing or else I'm cutting of the internet."

If he values his internet he'll take it seriously.


I could be wrong, but it seems you can only block torrents from each individual computer. Meaning I can block my desktop, but this wouldn't effect anyone using wifi. I am not hardware knowledgeable, so if you are explain it to me. I have two desktops that are directly plugged into my modem/router. Then between my immediate family there are two laptops, four smartphones, 2 tablets, an xbox 360 and a Wii on wifi. None of those devices show up on my network when I open task manager (just the two desktops). My modem/router is from comcast. I can't rename it and I can't change the password which is the serial number. But like I said, the problem wasn't my own family members. Do I need to inspect these kids computers. Do I need to go into each kid's computer when they come over and go into their windows firewall and block them each individually?


There are at least two places you can block/filter traffic from specific sites. One is at the individual computer as you mention. The other is at your gateway/portal. Ususally this will be the box you get from your ISP.

For example, I block things I don't want anyone to access via my wifi at the gateway. But if one kid abuses his internet privileges and I don't want him to be able to connect to youtube, I don't want his punishment to interfere with my enjoyment of cat videos, so I block youtube on his computer only. I suggest calling your ISP and getting their help with blocking/filtering so you don't get dinged again.
03/13/2013 12:30:20 PM · #49
I'll contact comcast then. If they can't tell me what to do to prevent it I'll either find an ISP who isn't participating in this or deny access to all but my family. I hate contacting them though as I can never understand them.
03/13/2013 12:39:30 PM · #50
Originally posted by Kelli:

I'll contact comcast then. If they can't tell me what to do to prevent it I'll either find an ISP who isn't participating in this or deny access to all but my family. I hate contacting them though as I can never understand them.


well you have a choice of Verizon and Comcast, and both are participating :)

Comcast tech support is actually very good, they don't sub it out to India and they know what they are talking about.

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