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03/12/2013 07:44:17 AM · #1
what are your thoughts on the over legislation that is going on in this country (USA).

on one hand legislation is good to protect people from themselves, but at what point do we have our own duty to self regulate and practice moderation? Are we unable to and are we at the mercy of corporations forcing products down our throats? or do we really want this stuff?

it just seems that lawmakers want to keep adding more and more rules but at what cost? clearly there are benefits to human health and society with regulations such as this but how much is too much?
03/12/2013 08:30:20 AM · #2
We have turned into a regulation nation. I am glad that mayor bloomberg's "ban" was shot down. We need to de-regulate. I am not talking about getting rid of all laws or anything. It has just gotten rediculous.
03/12/2013 08:47:16 AM · #3
Should we deregulate the consumption of dog meat? remove all rules about cigarettes-nicotine, tobacco?

For the ultra libertarians-nothing is stopping you from buying more than one soda-a twelve pack even- just limiting the size of the soda container for those, especially pre teens, who are just starting to be consumers on their own and can't make the right decision for themselves, sometimes until its too late, until bad habits are permanently set.

So, although technically this may be a bit paternal- studies show that we consumers are psychologically not satisfied until we finish the "package." We are less likely to buy two 12 ounce cans of (teeth rotting, caffeine dosed nuclear green sugar liquid)Mountain Dew type soft drinks, than we are to go out and buy one big 20, 22 or 24 oz big gulp or bottle, and just finish the whole damned thing.(me included)

And for you conservative "lets drug test people on welfare" types, isn't this a good thing? Theoretically less cases of obesity, type II diabetes and countless conditions for people on "the dole"( medicare, welfare, food stamps, etc.) How can that be a bad thing?

Message edited by author 2013-03-12 08:48:08.
03/12/2013 08:54:21 AM · #4
Originally posted by blindjustice:

Should we deregulate the consumption of dog meat? remove all rules about cigarettes-nicotine, tobacco?

For the ultra libertarians-nothing is stopping you from buying more than one soda-a twelve pack even- just limiting the size of the soda container for those, especially pre teens, who are just starting to be consumers on their own and can't make the right decision for themselves, sometimes until its too late, until bad habits are permanently set.

So, although technically this may be a bit paternal- studies show that we consumers are psychologically not satisfied until we finish the "package." We are less likely to buy two 12 ounce cans of (teeth rotting, caffeine dosed nuclear green sugar liquid)Mountain Dew type soft drinks, than we are to go out and buy one big 20, 22 or 24 oz big gulp or bottle, and just finish the whole damned thing.(me included)

And for you conservative "lets drug test people on welfare" types, isn't this a good thing? Theoretically less cases of obesity, type II diabetes and countless conditions for people on "the dole"( medicare, welfare, food stamps, etc.) How can that be a bad thing?


Hey I never said completely deregulate everything. However, the regulations are out of control. There are thousands of pages of new regulations every year....the only prob is they very rarely kill any of the old regualtions. So then you get regulations on top of regulations. We are drowning in regulations and it has to stop somewhere.
03/12/2013 08:54:45 AM · #5
Originally posted by blindjustice:

Should we deregulate the consumption of dog meat? remove all rules about cigarettes-nicotine, tobacco?

For the ultra libertarians-nothing is stopping you from buying more than one soda-a twelve pack even- just limiting the size of the soda container for those, especially pre teens, who are just starting to be consumers on their own and can't make the right decision for themselves, sometimes until its too late, until bad habits are permanently set.

So, although technically this may be a bit paternal- studies show that we consumers are psychologically not satisfied until we finish the "package." We are less likely to buy two 12 ounce cans of (teeth rotting, caffeine dosed nuclear green sugar liquid)Mountain Dew type soft drinks, than we are to go out and buy one big 20, 22 or 24 oz big gulp or bottle, and just finish the whole damned thing.(me included)

And for you conservative "lets drug test people on welfare" types, isn't this a good thing? Theoretically less cases of obesity, type II diabetes and countless conditions for people on "the dole"( medicare, welfare, food stamps, etc.) How can that be a bad thing?


i tend to agree with all you say, i am an advocate or personal accountability but we have proven time and time again to be unable to exercise restraint.

Message edited by author 2013-03-12 08:55:31.
03/12/2013 10:34:03 AM · #6
This isn't prohibition. You can still by a two liter coke and a really long straw if you like. Who the hell needs that much sugar anyway?
03/12/2013 10:54:53 AM · #7
Originally posted by bvy:

This isn't prohibition. You can still by a two liter coke and a really long straw if you like. Who the hell needs that much sugar anyway?


That's not the point. It is not the govmt's responsibility to regulate every aspect of a person's life. The more regulations there are the bigger govmt gets...The bigger govmt gets the more people depend on the govmt. I am all for a smaller govmt, eliminate alot of the regulations (again...I am not saying to completely eliminate regs) Part of the prob with the private sector hurting right now is because of regs that the Obama admin has introduced. Reduce regs companies hire, unemployment goes down, govmt shrinks

Message edited by author 2013-03-12 10:57:19.
03/12/2013 11:12:44 AM · #8
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Originally posted by bvy:

This isn't prohibition. You can still by a two liter coke and a really long straw if you like. Who the hell needs that much sugar anyway?


That's not the point. It is not the govmt's responsibility to regulate every aspect of a person's life. The more regulations there are the bigger govmt gets...The bigger govmt gets the more people depend on the govmt. I am all for a smaller govmt, eliminate alot of the regulations (again...I am not saying to completely eliminate regs) Part of the prob with the private sector hurting right now is because of regs that the Obama admin has introduced. Reduce regs companies hire, unemployment goes down, govmt shrinks


we need regulations: seat belts, motorcycle helmets, rocket launchers, keeping tigers as pets...

people need to be protected from their own stupidity and if we have an obesity and healthcare epidemic in this country because people can't stop drinking soda and eating junk food then why not limit how much can be offered to them, no one is saying they cant buy it.

Cowboy, i agree that we shouldn't regulate everything but when its proven that humans cant control themselves government needs to step in. When the benefits far outweigh the cons, its legislation I think we need.
03/12/2013 11:42:36 AM · #9
Cowboy, I do understand that there is a feeling among the right that Obama and Dems want to "over" regulate, (and that is a slippery slope to some communist/fascist end-of america scenario) and that this in turn kills business, but we can't confuse political "regulation" like Clean Air and Water Acts, Oil Drilling and Pipeline restrictions, Air Travel control, etc. - mostly "political"- rather than "Social Engineering" regulation.

I also understand that there are some people that think we should not spend a dime or control anything but the army, post office and some roads/bridges. Thats really not realistic though, is it?
Why control prostitution- it's between two consenting adults isn't it? and how is money for sex any different than buying dinner or Alex and Ani bracelets or something? Or why limit marriage to two adults? These are situations where there are no "innocent victims" - just consenting adults, No stepping on toes, just freedom to do what you want.

This move to limit soda size seems to be analogous to a state(like Arizona-but in this case a City) trying to limit or write laws about illegal undocumented workers- where they perceive the federal government has not done enough- in this case New York City, at the forefront of recognizing a need for guidance for its citizens, determined the FEds or FDA or somebody has failed to act and they are taking care of it locally. Isn't it a principle of right wing politics that decisions be made locally? Wouldn't striking this law down mean that the Federal Government is exerting more, not less, control?
03/12/2013 12:06:57 PM · #10
Originally posted by blindjustice:

Wouldn't striking this law down mean that the Federal Government is exerting more, not less, control?


look no further than who is behind the lawsuit to stop the law. its not the feds, its the soda industry.
03/12/2013 12:17:20 PM · #11
Well, if they were looking to go through with the whole Soda Ban thing, why would they allow fast food restaurants to ask if you want to "Heart-attack" your order? I think our government is simply trying to see what they can get away with.
03/12/2013 12:29:40 PM · #12
Originally posted by bvy:

This isn't prohibition. You can still by a two liter coke and a really long straw if you like. Who the hell needs that much sugar anyway?


Did they ban the diet coke in the large size? ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/10000-14999/11769/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1057984.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/10000-14999/11769/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1057984.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' They sell a lot of that. I guess not, that having no sugar.
03/12/2013 03:25:21 PM · #13
If you buy soda in Europe, you get the choice between 7.5oz and 12 oz. cans. In the States 12 oz. is the smallest size you can get. the other day in a fast food place I ordered a medium drink. It was 32 oz. That's 272 calories and 73.6 grams of sugar (just about twice as much sugar as you should take in in one day). A large coffee is 20 oz, but a small soda is 20 oz. Soft drinks are easier to buy and cheaper than bottled water in most places. According to the National Soft Drink Association (NSDA), consumption of soft drinks is now over 600 12-ounce servings (12 oz.) per person per year. A Gallup poll reveals that 48 percent of surveyed Americans -- nearly half! -- drink soda on a daily basis. What's more, among those who drank soda, the average daily intake was 2.6 glasses per day. so you can be sure half of us drink a lot more than those 600 soft drinks a year. We have doubled the amount of soft drinks we drink since 1971.

Soda is the largest source of sugar in the diet of children and adolescents. Juvenile diabetes rates have skyrocketed. The average American is 25 pounds heavier than they were in 1960. Of all countries, the United States has the highest rate of obesity. From 13% obesity in 1962, estimates have steadily increased, reaching 19.4% in 1997, 24.5% in 2004 26.6% in 2007, and 33.8% (adults) and 17% (children) in 2008. Track the rise of soda consumption to the rise of obesity and you will find it hard to see a difference between the two steeply climbing lines. In 2010, the CDC reported higher numbers once more, counting 35.7% of American adults as obese, and 17% of American children. According to Forbes the annual cost is $450 billion annual cost connected with being overweight in the U.S.

If you think all of this is fine and should be left to individual control, how do you feel about the fact that heroin is illegal ? Frankly heroin is not really any more dangerous than soft drinks and has some benefits that soft drinks lack.

Message edited by author 2013-03-12 15:32:08.
03/12/2013 03:32:26 PM · #14
Originally posted by BrennanOB:


If you think all of this is fine and should be left to individual control, how do you feel about the fact that heroin is illegal ? Frankly heroin is not really any more dangerous than soft drinks and has some benefits that soft drinks lack.


Heroine...really??? If someone dosn't have their coke for the day...they dont rob / murder / etc...to get one. A heroine addict will do anything to get that fix. This is why heroine is outlawed.

ETA...that really is comparing apples to oranges....even though caffine / sugar is a drug

Message edited by author 2013-03-12 15:35:59.
03/12/2013 03:34:47 PM · #15
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Frankly heroin is not really any more dangerous than soft drinks and has some benefits that soft drinks lack.

Apparently so ...
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03/12/2013 03:36:24 PM · #16
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Originally posted by BrennanOB:


If you think all of this is fine and should be left to individual control, how do you feel about the fact that heroin is illegal ? Frankly heroin is not really any more dangerous than soft drinks and has some benefits that soft drinks lack.


Heroine...really??? If someone dosn't have their coke for the day...they dont rob / murder / etc...to get one. A heroine addict will do anything to get that fix. This is why heroine is outlawed.

You have it exactly backwards -- it is because it is illegal that people (often) have to commit criminal acts to afford it. Heroin -- absent the legal obstacles to production -- is cheap.

Interesting you use coke (lowercase "l") as your counter-example, as cocaine addicts are much crazier than heroin addicts. You must have meant Coca Cola® which hasn't contained cocaine for over 50 years.

Message edited by author 2013-03-12 15:39:01.
03/12/2013 03:47:09 PM · #17
I would bet you that more criminals drink Coke than shoot heroine. Plenty of people use heroine without becoming criminals. We had no drug laws at all in the USA until 1906, shortly before we made alcohol illegal.

In the 1890s the Sears & Roebuck catalogue, which was distributed to millions of Americans homes, offered a syringe and a small amount of cocaine for $1.50. Heroine was outlawed in 1924 in the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act. Before then it was largely a drug used by housewives for "female troubles".

If you feel that the government has no obligation to regulate commerce, if you get your wish, somethings you are not keen on will be for sale. Right next to the 64 oz soda, and there is no reason it shouldn't be a nice cheap fix of heroine in a ready to go syringe.

Shouldn't people have the right to whatever poison they like?
03/12/2013 03:50:16 PM · #18
heroine = female role in an action story

heroin = opioid narcotic, formerly a trademark of Bayer AG
03/12/2013 04:40:54 PM · #19
Originally posted by allyboo:

Well, if they were looking to go through with the whole Soda Ban thing, why would they allow fast food restaurants to ask if you want to "Heart-attack" your order? I think our government is simply trying to see what they can get away with.


they already banned trans fat, certain bakeries and restaurants have to get an exemption in order to use it, not just in NY i know Philadelphia has a trans fat ban.

03/12/2013 05:19:04 PM · #20
Does this soda make my butt look big?
03/12/2013 06:14:52 PM · #21
Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by allyboo:

Well, if they were looking to go through with the whole Soda Ban thing, why would they allow fast food restaurants to ask if you want to "Heart-attack" your order? I think our government is simply trying to see what they can get away with.


they already banned trans fat, certain bakeries and restaurants have to get an exemption in order to use it, not just in NY i know Philadelphia has a trans fat ban.


And popcorn hasn't been the same since...
03/12/2013 06:22:05 PM · #22
I saw heroin as a comparator, but I think the more interesting comparator is marijuana. It strikes me that a few pro-soda regulators are also people I see on the pro-marijuana side.

Now, you can certainly think that sugar is somehow more dangerous than marijuana, but you can't take the position that the government has an interest in regulating sugar but can have no interest in regulating pot (up to an including keeping it illegal). The "what people do to their own body is their own business" cuts across both commodities equally.

Personally I'm up for the regulaton of both which leaves me with a consistent position.

Message edited by author 2013-03-12 18:23:42.
03/12/2013 06:25:20 PM · #23
lets all get high and drink soda

Message edited by author 2013-03-12 18:25:36.
03/12/2013 06:36:18 PM · #24
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I saw heroin as a comparator, but I think the more interesting comparator is marijuana. It strikes me that a few pro-soda regulators are also people I see on the pro-marijuana side.

Now, you can certainly think that sugar is somehow more dangerous than marijuana, but you can't take the position that the government has an interest in regulating sugar but can have no interest in regulating pot (up to an including keeping it illegal). The "what people do to their own body is their own business" cuts across both commodities equally.

Personally I'm up for the regulaton of both which leaves me with a consistent position.


Just out of curiosity Doc, if marijuana can be regulated, why would you want to keep it illegal?

Ray
03/12/2013 07:19:56 PM · #25
Ban coffee. After a lifetime of drinking it l, i stopped drinking that crap 6 weeks ago. After a hard week I must say that IM NEVER TIRED at any time of the work day AND my migraines have decreased about 80%.
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