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03/05/2013 09:07:27 AM · #51 |
| What do you think about candle light in BW? |
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03/05/2013 09:10:28 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by nygold:
Sometime it seems challenges like this come down to who ever has the best lights wins.
Any tips for a guy without lights or a studio? |
Find a window with soft diffuse light coming in and use it like a softbox... Often this looks better than a proper softbox. |
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03/05/2013 09:17:03 AM · #53 |
the trick is to make a portrait that conceals the the portrait. |
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03/05/2013 09:34:22 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Matt those are great, gorgeous lighting, but i think they would get panned in voting. there is nothing to make them stand out.
there are always a few images that rise above the other for some reason or another, a minimal edited portrait will require the photographer to exploit the lighting in a way to differentiate themselves. |
The point of my post was not to put up winning images. I doubt I could come close in a portrait challenge should I chose to enter. The point was, you can make good to borderline great portraits without editing.
Matt |
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03/05/2013 10:09:18 AM · #55 |
I think there's a big difference between shooting and editing Jane from down the street and someone for a model portfolio. One is not better than the other, but they are two very different kinds of portraits with respect to editing.
Message edited by author 2013-03-05 10:10:25. |
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03/06/2013 12:07:46 AM · #56 |
| well it appears as though you got your wish..... |
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03/06/2013 12:25:59 AM · #57 |
| C'mon Cory. Kick ass and show 'em how to do it :) |
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03/06/2013 12:51:16 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by pamb:
C'mon Cory. Kick ass and show 'em how to do it :) |
Well damn.. OK! I guess I painted myself into this corner. I'm all in. :-)
BTW Langdon is the man... :-)
Message edited by author 2013-03-06 00:52:40. |
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03/06/2013 01:05:51 AM · #59 |
| If I have fun making a mediocre image do I get extra points? |
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03/06/2013 01:36:02 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by tnun:
If I have fun making a mediocre image do I get extra points? |
Yep... But they're multiplied by 0 at the end of the challenge. |
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03/06/2013 01:50:13 AM · #61 |
| no, no. Mike is going to give me those extra points. |
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03/06/2013 01:55:56 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by tnun:
no, no. Mike is going to give me those extra points. |
ROFL. Mike doesn't give points. |
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03/06/2013 07:16:11 AM · #63 |
well now this is interesting on many levels...
the most interesting being that its pitting two editing styles against each other. I guess we are going to find out what has more appeal. hopefully we have a nice split. I don't wish to see minimal gone, i just enjoy debating its worth.
and no, i don't give points for having fun, you should be doing that anyway. ;P |
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03/06/2013 07:32:03 AM · #64 |
| i think its not the minimal editing that makes people crazy its all this PP stuff that has to be done and things have to be perfect to be a good photo and lets rely on that to make a photo... fooeeey...balderdash and more... people are obsessed with Off camera PP and even some on camera PP and with what is good and perfect etc.. if your an advertiser then of course but no one here is advertising anything except PP as the only way to get a photo out and into the good image bracket! oh dear oh dear oh dear! |
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03/06/2013 07:57:58 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by GAP2012:
i think its not the minimal editing that makes people crazy its all this PP stuff that has to be done and things have to be perfect to be a good photo and lets rely on that to make a photo... fooeeey...balderdash and more... people are obsessed with Off camera PP and even some on camera PP and with what is good and perfect etc.. if your an advertiser then of course but no one here is advertising anything except PP as the only way to get a photo out and into the good image bracket! oh dear oh dear oh dear! |
Here the thing, processing is essential, even in minimal editing you are still processing the image, you just aren't doing it, the camera is. That is my whole big problem with minimal. The whole exercise in letting the camera process my image absolutely achieves nothing in teaching me anything. You are taking the best feature of owning a high end camera and throwing it away, that is the ability to capture every possible piece of light information you sensor was designed for and using it to its potential, you are allowing an set of algorithms to decide how the image should look. I'm sorry i just will never understand why anyone would enjoy to work under that constraint. I can understand why some do, but why you'd prefer to do it that way given the alternative.
I'm sorry but my camera sensor doesn't see the world the way my eyes do. If it did i would have any any problems. For 95% of what i shoot i don't get a redo at the time I press the shutter button. so if my camera takes that image and applies a white balance that doesn't work, or too much contrast, or not enough sharpening, or whatever, the image is screwed.
I think i speak with who doesn't prefer the minimal rule set is just let US control what the you are presetting into the camera processing, let us have RAW, let us adjust WB, sharpness, contrast, saturation. that's it, i can live with that. i don't have to cook my images, crop them, etc. i don't have to have the perfect image, minimal is more restrictive than it fundamentally needs to be. Allowing us minor RAW processing still achieves the same purpose. |
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03/06/2013 08:07:34 AM · #66 |
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03/06/2013 08:49:05 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by GAP2012:
i think its not the minimal editing that makes people crazy its all this PP stuff that has to be done and things have to be perfect to be a good photo and lets rely on that to make a photo... fooeeey...balderdash and more... people are obsessed with Off camera PP and even some on camera PP and with what is good and perfect etc.. if your an advertiser then of course but no one here is advertising anything except PP as the only way to get a photo out and into the good image bracket! oh dear oh dear oh dear! |
Funny how people think it was to come from the camera. Whatever happened to people using a darkroom and processing their images? Just because the darkroom is gone, we should stop the processing? |
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03/06/2013 08:59:17 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by gcoulson:
Isn't that Basic? |
no. Basic is just a travesty, i HATE basic editing i don't hate minimal. Thanks god Langdon realizes this and hardly ever runs them.
The minimal i would like to see is basic stripped way back. No pushing the setting to the extremes, no crop, no color desaturation, just giving the image you capture a bit of life from its flat initial capture. Let it stand on its own, not letting the camera process it for you. |
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03/06/2013 09:22:56 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Here the thing, processing is essential, even in minimal editing you are still processing the image, you just aren't doing it, the camera is. That is my whole big problem with minimal. The whole exercise in letting the camera process my image absolutely achieves nothing in teaching me anything. You are taking the best feature of owning a high end camera and throwing it away, that is the ability to capture every possible piece of light information you sensor was designed for and using it to its potential, you are allowing an set of algorithms to decide how the image should look. I'm sorry i just will never understand why anyone would enjoy to work under that constraint. I can understand why some do, but why you'd prefer to do it that way given the alternative.
I'm sorry but my camera sensor doesn't see the world the way my eyes do. If it did i would have any any problems. For 95% of what i shoot i don't get a redo at the time I press the shutter button. so if my camera takes that image and applies a white balance that doesn't work, or too much contrast, or not enough sharpening, or whatever, the image is screwed.
I think i speak with who doesn't prefer the minimal rule set is just let US control what the you are presetting into the camera processing, let us have RAW, let us adjust WB, sharpness, contrast, saturation. that's it, i can live with that. i don't have to cook my images, crop them, etc. i don't have to have the perfect image, minimal is more restrictive than it fundamentally needs to be. Allowing us minor RAW processing still achieves the same purpose. |
i hear what your saying... and yes the bigger cameras give you more control and potentially more information to work with in post processing, and of course processing at the begining and more potential for screwing up, you want a bigger camera then you have more complexity to deal with then thats your choice compared to a simpler camera, and yes that can be seen as why dont we all go back to pinhole, and yes that would be one way for minimal to work... but its the choice of your camera, why shouldnt the playing field be levelled to the minimal level and give people who cant afford the bigger camera a shot at showing their camera skills off versus the camera technical skills and post processing skills. and yes there is a point to it and that way of doing things, it may not fit yours or others ideals for images and what is processing and what is minimal but its a good playing field leveler in a way to show what you can do with your camera at its most basic level, and yeah even some in camera functions could be questionable for minimal, i like to turn off as much of the automatic stuff as i can, at times to capture things a little more raw than raw files, to test myself and move forward... i dont think thats anything to look down on, but to commend anyone who tries to do that... so thats why i say this stuff sometimes, its all about perception and perspective of people sometimes and how we arrived at the output. |
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03/06/2013 09:34:44 AM · #70 |
| Can somebody define 'portrait' please? Is it any different than a picture of a person? |
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03/06/2013 09:38:20 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by mikeee:
Can somebody define 'portrait' please? Is it any different than a picture of a person? |
oxford english dictionary definition
Definition of portrait
noun
a painting, drawing, photograph, or engraving of a person, especially one depicting only the face or head and shoulders:
a portrait painter
a representation or impression of someone or something in language or on film or television:
the writer builds up a fascinating portrait of a community
Message edited by author 2013-03-06 09:39:18. |
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03/06/2013 09:41:20 AM · #72 |
Gary: That's the point you are missing, minimal favors those with better gear, those with better lighting, better cameras, better lenses. You honestly think in a minimal challenge a person with a point and shoot has a better shot at competing on the same level with a professional portrait photographer who has crazy lighting setup, L glass and a full frame sensor? proper post process allow you to make up for deficiencies in your gear, i.e. proper color representation, sharpness, lens distortion, etc.
We need to squash that perception, minimal does not level the paying field, all it does is attempt to present constraints for a challenge to focus on preprocessing over post processing, even though post processing is still occurring.
Message edited by author 2013-03-06 09:42:08. |
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03/06/2013 09:51:52 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Gary: That's the point you are missing, minimal favors those with better gear, those with better lighting, better cameras, better lenses. You honestly think in a minimal challenge a person with a point and shoot has a better shot at competing on the same level with a professional portrait photographer who has crazy lighting setup, L glass and a full frame sensor? proper post process allow you to make up for deficiencies in your gear, i.e. proper color representation, sharpness, lens distortion, etc.
We need to squash that perception, minimal does not level the paying field, all it does is attempt to present constraints for a challenge to focus on preprocessing over post processing, even though post processing is still occurring. |
i didnt miss any point mike i know exactly what your talking about, and yes i understand that totally, my point was also seeminlgy missed but im sure likewise it wasnt. it can level the filed a mediocre photographer with a brand new high powered camera is going to produce a pretty average photo, a good photographer with a mediocre will still produce a great shot even if the quality of the output is smaller or somehow challenged by the cameras abilities... that is not a perception except when you gloss it up at the PP stage when you can make a mediocre photo look stunning and a great photo look average or slightly better due to limitations of the file... and a great portrait photo shot on a high end camera in a controlled environment, is no different... and when people look at photos they should be able to acknowledge a photo shoot setup in a studio to that of one done in an outside environment when comparing them and vote accordingly... and a good photographer will shine in most environment in which they feel they have control over the camera and not the other way around and having to PP... |
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03/06/2013 09:54:47 AM · #74 |
| I think the most rational way of looking at this is that "Minimal Editing" is the digital equivalent of what we had to do in film days when we shot color transparencies; you got those right in camera, or they didn't work at all. It's not as arbitrary as some seem to think it is. |
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03/06/2013 09:55:40 AM · #75 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I think the most rational way of looking at this is that "Minimal Editing" is the digital equivalent of what we had to do in film days when we shot color transparencies; you got those right in camera, or they didn't work at all. It's not as arbitrary as some seem to think it is. |
exactly +1 |
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