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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Suggestions >> basic and minimal !!!
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02/23/2013 07:31:25 AM · #1
yooo folks,,,,
im not man of many words in here,
this is not a complane,,,,humm,,?,,
no no, yes this is a complane,,,
i would like to see more challenge with
minimal and basic editing,,,
should be here every week imo,,,
well ,, i hope,,,,



02/23/2013 07:39:51 AM · #2
I don't see the point of the Basic ruleset but i'm always happy to see more Minimal challenges.
02/23/2013 08:23:08 AM · #3
I don't see the point of either.
02/23/2013 08:50:16 AM · #4
I like minimal challenges, but no need of basic...
02/23/2013 09:10:51 AM · #5
agree with the sentiment of more minimal, at least one for every two expert? basic is a useless "halfstep"
02/23/2013 09:14:52 AM · #6
Yes.

More Minimalism. And more minimum editing too! ;)
02/23/2013 09:50:20 AM · #7
Originally posted by FourPointX:

agree with the sentiment of more minimal, at least one for every two expert? basic is a useless "halfstep"


I am intrigued as to why you feel that way.

Surely the rules were devised for people who have no knowledge of post processing techniques or am I missing the boat on that one.

Just curious,

Ray
02/23/2013 10:11:24 AM · #8
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by FourPointX:

agree with the sentiment of more minimal, at least one for every two expert? basic is a useless "halfstep"


I am intrigued as to why you feel that way.

Surely the rules were devised for people who have no knowledge of post processing techniques or am I missing the boat on that one.

Just curious,

Ray


I don't know if the rules were devised for those with no post processing knowledge or not. I would say minimal is pretty much the hardest ruleset in many ways. I really enjoy it not because of the results it produces but rather for the way it makes you engage with the camera and the process of photography in a certain way.

As to basic being a half-step. That's my thoughts as well. The main difference between it and advanced is not being able to edit selectively but there is so much you can do globally it just seems a bit pointless. The crux of it is that i don't feel one learns much from being forced to do basic as opposed to minimal and advanced.
02/23/2013 10:38:05 AM · #9
^^ What he said ^^
02/23/2013 10:58:15 AM · #10
Yep, well said ^^

Basic is pointless, just a waste of a good topic. I'd love to see it gone forever.

I just don't like minimal. I enjoy postprocessing and getting the most possible out of my image. Minimal does not allow me to do that.

But hey don't let me stop the fun. I don't have to participate. I have plenty others to choose from.
02/23/2013 12:12:19 PM · #11
No to basic, no to minimal.I want to play with the tools in my toolbox. And the word is "complain".
02/23/2013 12:34:32 PM · #12
Originally posted by franktheyank:

No to basic, no to minimal.I want to play with the tools in my toolbox. And the word is "complain".


I understand about playing with PP tools but sometimes challenging yourself to get it right in camera and doing Minimal is liberating. Some cameras now have so many settings that you can achieve some of the effects you get with PP. Nothing like sitting down and knocking out a good/great photo in 15 minutes or less. Minimal forces you to learn all the ins & outs of your camera and also makes you learn to 'read' the light.

Basic...well I find that to be a headache...
02/23/2013 12:37:56 PM · #13
Originally posted by franktheyank:

And the word is "complain".

Go easy on his spelling. He's from Norway. The quality of life is so high there they don't have that word.
02/23/2013 01:28:51 PM · #14
Originally posted by rooum:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by FourPointX:

agree with the sentiment of more minimal, at least one for every two expert? basic is a useless "halfstep"


I am intrigued as to why you feel that way.

Surely the rules were devised for people who have no knowledge of post processing techniques or am I missing the boat on that one.

Just curious,

Ray


I don't know if the rules were devised for those with no post processing knowledge or not. I would say minimal is pretty much the hardest ruleset in many ways. I really enjoy it not because of the results it produces but rather for the way it makes you engage with the camera and the process of photography in a certain way.

As to basic being a half-step. That's my thoughts as well. The main difference between it and advanced is not being able to edit selectively but there is so much you can do globally it just seems a bit pointless. The crux of it is that i don't feel one learns much from being forced to do basic as opposed to minimal and advanced.


thank you for explaining it much more eloquently than i could have. nailed it.
02/23/2013 02:17:27 PM · #15
I may be in the minority but I think that Minimal is nearly pointless. I do agree that it can be quite difficult, and that it requires strict attention to shooting set-up and capture. This does not, IMO, necessarily translate into "learning best practices." I think of best practices as techniques that ensure you are able to produce the highest quality output. Post-processing is a part of obtaining said high-quality output. Example: I nearly always "expose to the right" to ensure that I use the full dynamic range of the sensor. This can and often does result in an in-camera image that looks "over exposed." The result is that I will pull back exposure slightly in post, avoiding having to push shadows, and obtaining a cleaner image with smoother color transitions. The idea of Minimal Editing flies in the face of this and other good practices.
02/23/2013 02:28:13 PM · #16
Originally posted by kirbic:

This does not, IMO, necessarily translate into "learning best practices." I think of best practices as techniques that ensure you are able to produce the highest quality output.


I see what you're saying and agree to a certain extent. 95% of my photography probably falls under the advanced ruleset but i find minimal is kind of liberating in that it forces me to work with the camera in a more fluid and organic way. It tends to re-vitalise and remind me of why i love photography so much. I don't think it produces, necessarily, the best images but i find i sometimes enjoy shooting more.

Message edited by author 2013-02-23 14:29:42.
02/23/2013 02:32:52 PM · #17
Originally posted by kirbic:

I may be in the minority but I think that Minimal is nearly pointless. I do agree that it can be quite difficult, and that it requires strict attention to shooting set-up and capture. This does not, IMO, necessarily translate into "learning best practices." I think of best practices as techniques that ensure you are able to produce the highest quality output. Post-processing is a part of obtaining said high-quality output. Example: I nearly always "expose to the right" to ensure that I use the full dynamic range of the sensor. This can and often does result in an in-camera image that looks "over exposed." The result is that I will pull back exposure slightly in post, avoiding having to push shadows, and obtaining a cleaner image with smoother color transitions. The idea of Minimal Editing flies in the face of this and other good practices.


+1


Message edited by author 2013-02-23 14:40:58.
02/23/2013 02:37:29 PM · #18
Originally posted by rooum:

Originally posted by kirbic:

This does not, IMO, necessarily translate into "learning best practices." I think of best practices as techniques that ensure you are able to produce the highest quality output.


I see what you're saying and agree to a certain extent. 95% of my photography probably falls under the advanced ruleset but i find minimal is kind of liberating in that it forces me to work with the camera in a more fluid and organic way. It tends to re-vitalise and remind me of why i love photography so much. I don't think it produces, necessarily, the best images but i find i sometimes enjoy shooting more.


I do understand that... It's just not me, LOL. I don't want to learn to fix a car with only a screwdriver. I want to use all the tools at my disposal!
02/23/2013 02:50:36 PM · #19
Basic and minimal editing probably wouldn't be popular on here. With participation levels low, now probably isn't the best time to make things more challenging. Advanced has become the norm and expert has gained popularity. Even with film photography images can be manipulated in the dark room. That being said, I'd love to see a few more basic or minimal challenges. I tend to get a little lazy while shooting knowing that I can adjust my composition, tones, contrast, etc. in post processing.
02/23/2013 02:51:49 PM · #20
I'm going for the idea of a little more straight photography (read: basic and minimal) and a little less image manipulation (read: expert editing). But, I have to admit, some "expert" images are really great here.
02/23/2013 03:02:46 PM · #21
More Minimal. I found myself way too often not caring much about the picture since I can always crop it and play with it to make what I want. There is something satisfying about taking a picture and loving it as is.
02/23/2013 03:05:23 PM · #22
In favour of more minimal and basic. Knowing and using whatever camera within its limitations, even if it is only a screw driver of a camera (to subvert the analogy), is an art in itself. The possibilities of PP are altogether TOO ENDLESS, a madness of its own.

Just hoping to keep a tiny space for luddites like me.
02/23/2013 03:36:16 PM · #23
I agree with others that Basic rule set is pretty pointless since it allows all sorts of manipulation but none to specific areas, it is complex enough to be difficult for novices, but limited enough to be frustrating for experienced users.

Minimal rule set has two advantages; for the experienced, it forces us to work in camera, and not rely on our usual bag of post processing tricks. But far more importantly it allows users with little to no post processing skills a chance to score well.

If we are going to stem the tide of shrinking membership and participation we have to make the challenges more appealing to novices, and complex multiple exposure confections from Expert rule set seem impossible to the people who are just learning to use their cameras. On another thread a member was asking for some mentoring, and prefaced his request with the acknowledgment that this was "not a teaching site". Well way back when I joined it was clear that this was supposed to be a teaching site, and the fact that it is no longer seen as a teaching site by some might have something to do with the complex editing that is required to have a chance at a decent score in advanced and expert rule set challenges.

So, yes more minimal challenges, more chances for the newbies, more teaching.
02/23/2013 04:16:03 PM · #24
Same people, same points of view. By now you should all have your tenets of good photography typed out and posted as a manifesto on your profile pages. When these threads pop up, you can just copy and paste so you save yourself the time and trouble!
02/23/2013 04:54:05 PM · #25
Sometimes we change. Sometimes we improve/inflate our language. It's all about flex. Or flux.
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