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02/19/2013 02:35:20 PM · #26 |
| So let me get this straight....if i downgrade my membership from business pro to just an ordinary account...people can still buy my prints at cost unless i go into ever gallery and change them as non printable? |
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02/19/2013 03:09:33 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by wizardry:
So let me get this straight....if i downgrade my membership from business pro to just an ordinary account...people can still buy my prints at cost unless i go into ever gallery and change them as non printable? |
No, as the Smugmug rep said just above, you can disable sales on all of your galleries with just a couple of clicks if you want to.
I suppose maybe Smugmug could have anticipated the cart being left open at cost as people downgraded. But I don't understand such a violent reaction by some who didn't anticipate this happening when they downgraded- some of that responsibility should maybe be on their shoulders as it really isn't that hard to understand that a downgrade would create this as a possibility. |
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02/19/2013 03:19:32 PM · #28 |
Really??? I definitely had no idea that SmugMug would be able to continually sell my work at cost WITHOUT informing me that they were doing so..i guess assuming that they would do the right thing and once your account was downgraded automatically kill the shopping cart was not very smart on my side...but i don't remember being warned about it when i downgraded....anyway...once my account lapses i'm done with these guys...
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by wizardry:
So let me get this straight....if i downgrade my membership from business pro to just an ordinary account...people can still buy my prints at cost unless i go into ever gallery and change them as non printable? |
No, as the Smugmug rep said just above, you can disable sales on all of your galleries with just a couple of clicks if you want to.
I suppose maybe Smugmug could have anticipated the cart being left open at cost as people downgraded. But I don't understand such a violent reaction by some who didn't anticipate this happening when they downgraded- some of that responsibility should maybe be on their shoulders as it really isn't that hard to understand that a downgrade would create this as a possibility. |
Message edited by author 2013-02-19 15:20:05. |
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02/19/2013 04:02:49 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by wizardry:
So let me get this straight....if i downgrade my membership from business pro to just an ordinary account...people can still buy my prints at cost unless i go into ever gallery and change them as non printable? |
No, as the Smugmug rep said just above, you can disable sales on all of your galleries with just a couple of clicks if you want to.
I suppose maybe Smugmug could have anticipated the cart being left open at cost as people downgraded. But I don't understand such a violent reaction by some who didn't anticipate this happening when they downgraded- some of that responsibility should maybe be on their shoulders as it really isn't that hard to understand that a downgrade would create this as a possibility. |
while i agree that smugmug makes it obvious, why dont they just write it into the code to happen automatically? I mean who wants to sell their prints with no profit markup??
why even leave it up to the customer to have to research? I just seen too many times where companies try to pass one over on customers and when the issue pops up they have some excuse ready to go. if its problematic enough to write into an FAQ, just fix it so a downgrader doesnt have to even be concerned about it.
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02/19/2013 04:05:25 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by wizardry:
Really??? I definitely had no idea that SmugMug would be able to continually sell my work at cost WITHOUT informing me that they were doing so..i guess assuming that they would do the right thing and once your account was downgraded automatically kill the shopping cart was not very smart on my side...but i don't remember being warned about it when i downgraded....anyway...once my account lapses i'm done with these guys... |
And again, why is the onus of understanding how YOUR account works as YOU change it on them?
If you don't want any further sales of your images, especially where you receive no compensation, then whose job is it to find out if that's a possibility?
I don't really have much sympathy for people who get annoyed at someone else when it's their responsibility to take care of their images.
It's just like laws.......ignorance is not an excuse.....
It's the same thing with having images stolen and published elsewhere. It does happen. If you produce real;ly good images and post them in various places around the web, it's even likely that you may have this happen to you. It's part of the risks of the web.
I had an image stolen and published elsewhere......personally, after seeing the other images on the site where it ended up, I was outright flattered. But I have no illusions that there's anything that's worth my time and trouble to do.
Do your own homework when you're in a business situation. If there's something you don't want to have happen, then find out if it can, and do what you need to in order to prevent it.
When all else fails, pull your images from the site if you must.
Message edited by author 2013-02-19 16:10:13.
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02/19/2013 04:12:58 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
while i agree that smugmug makes it obvious, why dont they just write it into the code to happen automatically? I mean who wants to sell their prints with no profit markup??
why even leave it up to the customer to have to research? I just seen too many times where companies try to pass one over on customers and when the issue pops up they have some excuse ready to go. if its problematic enough to write into an FAQ, just fix it so a downgrader doesnt have to even be concerned about it. |
Y'all just want everyone else to do the work for you.
Accept responsibility for your own business acumen, or lack thereof....
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02/19/2013 08:26:14 PM · #32 |
I haven't been a Smugmug customer for years, but I think the issue is that on a power account you are allowed to sell prints...except that it must be at cost. I don't think it's a dubious profit motive driving it.
But, clearly since this is a point of potential revenue loss (for the photog), the proper thing to do is to automatically (globally) turn off the print sales after a downgrade on all galleries. Then the user can turn them on one by one.
It's like when they warn you when you accidentally set your prints to sell for less than they cost. Right? They warn you, right?
So as a programmer, I'd say at the very least, there should be the same level warning when you downgrade. Or automatically take the more conservative, safer, approach and turn off print sales globally (or prompt the user about it).
Sorry, it's easy to blame the user. It's better to fix the problem. And if they're just realizing it, ok fine, then they should fix the problem now, if they're truly customer centric. You write interfaces to prevent users from making errors.
That's one of the reasons I left Smugmug actually...the lack of support in the shopping cart to help users not make ordering errors by only showing the appropriate aspect ratios (I understand that for portraits or event photos that may not apply, but it sure does for fine art prints).
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02/20/2013 02:40:57 AM · #33 |
I thank you all for your stating your opinions and ideas in a reasonable and in a professional manner. As I told Kevin, I would be bringing this issue up with my team, and discussing ways to make sure this type of situation does not happen again. You all have stated valuable ideas and feedback, and I will be using this in my assessment.
Thank you again! And thank you Doc for the kind words!
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02/20/2013 03:09:02 AM · #34 |
| I don't use smugmug, but I will say that it's ALWAYS nice to see reps from photo services/dealers visit forums. |
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02/20/2013 03:31:58 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
I don't use smugmug, but I will say that it's ALWAYS nice to see reps from photo services/dealers visit forums. |
Thank you! I love interacting, and trying to help as many people as I can...either SmugMug customer or not. I will be watching this thread closely, so I welcome more feedback and discussion regarding this matter.
Michael |
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02/20/2013 09:26:32 AM · #36 |
| Michael, quick question, is there a way to find out if any items were sold in a gallery by SmugMug even though the photographer wasn't notified? I'm just curious at this point. Thx! |
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02/21/2013 03:25:52 AM · #37 |
Scapeshots,
As of now, there is no way for a customer to see the sales. This is another issue I am investigating as to how to make better.
I hope this answers your question.
Michael |
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02/21/2013 09:38:21 AM · #38 |
Well said Neil...i completely agree.
Originally posted by Neil:
I haven't been a Smugmug customer for years, but I think the issue is that on a power account you are allowed to sell prints...except that it must be at cost. I don't think it's a dubious profit motive driving it.
But, clearly since this is a point of potential revenue loss (for the photog), the proper thing to do is to automatically (globally) turn off the print sales after a downgrade on all galleries. Then the user can turn them on one by one.
It's like when they warn you when you accidentally set your prints to sell for less than they cost. Right? They warn you, right?
So as a programmer, I'd say at the very least, there should be the same level warning when you downgrade. Or automatically take the more conservative, safer, approach and turn off print sales globally (or prompt the user about it).
Sorry, it's easy to blame the user. It's better to fix the problem. And if they're just realizing it, ok fine, then they should fix the problem now, if they're truly customer centric. You write interfaces to prevent users from making errors.
That's one of the reasons I left Smugmug actually...the lack of support in the shopping cart to help users not make ordering errors by only showing the appropriate aspect ratios (I understand that for portraits or event photos that may not apply, but it sure does for fine art prints). |
Message edited by author 2013-02-21 09:40:02. |
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02/21/2013 09:46:24 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by mbonocore:
Scapeshots,
As of now, there is no way for a customer to see the sales. This is another issue I am investigating as to how to make better.
I hope this answers your question.
Michael |
I am assuming you mean photographer?
If you want input -- as a photographer, I would like to know what was sold at cost and to whom. . (because I can't correct an oversight if I don't know an oversight exists) |
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02/21/2013 10:01:31 AM · #40 |
I'm glad to see that i'm not the only one who thinks this is not a very good way of doing business...
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by mbonocore:
Scapeshots,
As of now, there is no way for a customer to see the sales. This is another issue I am investigating as to how to make better.
I hope this answers your question.
Michael |
I am assuming you mean photographer?
If you want input -- as a photographer, I would like to know what was sold at cost and to whom. . (because I can't correct an oversight if I don't know an oversight exists) |
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02/21/2013 10:04:18 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by mbonocore:
Scapeshots,
As of now, there is no way for a customer to see the sales. This is another issue I am investigating as to how to make better.
I hope this answers your question.
Michael |
wait, SM leaves the option left on and without properly warning the customer or keeping track of the sales, post downgrade, SM continues allow the sales to occur at their own benefit. as Neil said, when you write code you try to anticipate the user making errors and not to allow them to occur.
if this is an oversight, its a major one.
I would hope SM addresses this quickly, i know i will never become a member, allowing shoddy code to run my business isn't high on the list of my business needs.
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02/21/2013 10:07:26 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by mike_311:
while i agree that smugmug makes it obvious, why dont they just write it into the code to happen automatically? I mean who wants to sell their prints with no profit markup??
why even leave it up to the customer to have to research? I just seen too many times where companies try to pass one over on customers and when the issue pops up they have some excuse ready to go. if its problematic enough to write into an FAQ, just fix it so a downgrader doesnt have to even be concerned about it. |
Y'all just want everyone else to do the work for you.
Accept responsibility for your own business acumen, or lack thereof.... |
believe me i will be the first to scream personal accountability rules.
however in this case, if I'm writing the code or putting the site together myself its my fault, the minute I sub out that work to others, I expect competent results. |
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02/21/2013 01:43:23 PM · #43 |
| I find it interesting that we usually hear howls of protest when some website changes our user-defined settings without notification, yet here everyone is upset that the site left your settings the way you had set them ... interesting ... |
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02/21/2013 01:51:34 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I find it interesting that we usually hear howls of protest when some website changes our user-defined settings without notification, yet here everyone is upset that the site left your settings the way you had set them ... interesting ... |
That's EXACTLY what I was thinking; this is like a paradigmatic microcosm of the internet in here. Or something :-) |
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02/21/2013 01:56:38 PM · #45 |
I think when something like this has a potential in cutting into your bottom line...its much more different....
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I find it interesting that we usually hear howls of protest when some website changes our user-defined settings without notification, yet here everyone is upset that the site left your settings the way you had set them ... interesting ... |
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02/21/2013 02:01:39 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I find it interesting that we usually hear howls of protest when some website changes our user-defined settings without notification, yet here everyone is upset that the site left your settings the way you had set them ... interesting ... |
That's EXACTLY what I was thinking; this is like a paradigmatic microcosm of the internet in here. Or something :-) |
if images weren't being sold without notice or compensation, i don't think anyone would care but that is an interesting dynamic. |
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02/21/2013 02:04:28 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Scapeshots:
I think when something like this has a potential in cutting into your bottom line...its much more different.... |
Not everyone there is a "pro" -- and if you are, and are "downgrading" your account, it might be reasonable you'd take down your "customer" or public galleries, perhaps leaving family pics you want relatives to print at cost.
The site can't read your mind about the disposition of your images. In this case, there were images listed for sale, and the site didn't change anything ... |
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02/21/2013 02:08:34 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Scapeshots:
I think when something like this has a potential in cutting into your bottom line...its much more different.... |
Not everyone there is a "pro" -- and if you are, and are "downgrading" your account, it might be reasonable you'd take down your "customer" or public galleries, perhaps leaving family pics you want relatives to print at cost.
The site can't read your mind about the disposition of your images. In this case, there were images listed for sale, and the site didn't change anything ... |
that's fine but it could and should have disabled printing or at the very least notify you or keep a record of it... |
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02/21/2013 02:09:37 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I find it interesting that we usually hear howls of protest when some website changes our user-defined settings without notification, yet here everyone is upset that the site left your settings the way you had set them ... interesting ... |
As has happened to me though, I *thought* it was set one way, the site changed, and I *thought* I had changed what I needed to. Then, I find out that, low and behold, something *hadn't* been changed (incidentally, SM profited from it, but I had no idea it happened). (And to clarify, my situation is a bit different because it wasn't downgrading that caused my issue -- I'm still a "pro" level user)
Now, I have two options --
Go through a couple of hundred galleries (with close to 20,000 pictures), individually, and clicking through the three or four screens I need to check this particular setting to make sure one or more hasn't been missed, inadvertantly, on each item that I want for sale. (To clarify -- they way you had to set your prices at one point was if you left a field blank it was for sale at cost. if you didn't want it for sale, you had to put in $0.00. Or maybe it was the other way around, but if you skipped one, that item would be available for cost, and you wouldn't know it. then, it changed somewhat, and I *think* I got everything updated correctly. Eventually, they changed it so that you could set a default gallery pricing scheme and now I just use that and price everything the same to keep from missing something along the way).
OR
Ask SM to notify me when an item sells at cost, just like they notify me when a customer buys something at profit level.
There was one order where a customer had ordered a bunch of stuff and one item I had skipped. I was notified of all of it except the one. :/ |
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02/21/2013 02:31:06 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
that's fine but it could and should have disabled printing or at the very least notify you ... |
If you read the instructions they do notify you, and apparently provide helpful links for doing whatever (I didn't follow those any further myself), but I took a look at the linked page -- it doesn't look like they were trying to hide anything ...
Originally posted by EL-ROI:
Uhm... Did a keyword search on smugmug help - "Downgrade account" Didn't even get to finish the entire two keywords before the first link in the pop down menu from the search bar led me right to the info I would have needed.
//help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/91812-how-do-i-downgrade-my-account-
Originally posted by smugmug help site:
We also suggest:
If you had priced photos for sale, you may want to disable printing in your galleries because your existing Pricelists will be deleted. Block Printing to prevent at-cost sales. |
It can't be more helpful!! The links lead you right to the info that shows you how to do it in your control panel. |
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