Define "Professional" - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

08/25/2004 04:07:03 PM · #1

I'm sure this has been discussed before and yes, I did search for it but probably didn't put in the right key words......

Can somebody define what a "professional photographer" is?

I mean, obviously everybody starts out being an amature, but at what point do they get to call themselves pro?

Is it the amount of equipment? The number of shots? The quality of shots?

Amount of equipment: I'm still new on the scene and have already obtained a ton of stuff...likely more than several "pro" studios out there.

Number of shots: I know people that shoot and shoot and take nothing but crap. Pro? No way...

Quality of shots: Even on this board I've seen a ton of Am shots that are outstanding. Conversely, I've seen far to many pro shots that are horrible.

I was told once in regards to music (I played jazz trumped years ago) that you become pro once you get paid for your work. I suppose this falls in line with athletics as well. Is this the deciding factor?

What do you think?

[edits for typo's]

Message edited by author 2004-08-25 16:08:48.

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

08/25/2004 04:08:20 PM · #2

Professional usually refers simply to someone who makes a profession (ie a living) from the activity.

So I'd say that a professional photographer is anyone who is making a significant portion of their income from their photographic endeavours.

Message edited by author 2004-08-25 16:09:02.

PaulMdx

Canon EOS-1D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

08/25/2004 04:09:03 PM · #3

Majority of salary comes from photography, would be my definition.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/25/2004 04:10:52 PM · #4

But what about those that do it part time.

The guy that did my wedding shots years ago does it on the side. His product was wonderful, but its certainly not his primary gig.

nico_blue

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

08/25/2004 04:12:49 PM · #5

Originally posted by RobCoursey:

But what about those that do it part time.

The guy that did my wedding shots years ago does it on the side. His product was wonderful, but its certainly not his primary gig.

he is a part time professional. It not his primary job but he makes money from it.

Taunya

Minolta DiMAGE 2300

08/25/2004 04:13:09 PM · #6

I say it is when you are getting paid to do it and you are known by some people, that leads to referals.

jxpfeer

Nikon D70

08/25/2004 04:17:11 PM · #7

guys guys you have it all wrong...
what makes a "professional" is how cool his camera gear looks... yup that's right.
the biggest body of an SLR you can find, and a really big lense to stick on it with lots of numbers on the side of it. even if the lense is an old Manual lense or something, the more markings the better. this also rules out "amateur" bodies like a silver rebel, or a puny little d70.

in all seriousness tho, i define a professional as someone who does it as a profession... not necessarily someone who's very very good. :)

PaulMdx

Canon EOS-1D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

08/25/2004 04:18:58 PM · #8

Originally posted by jxpfeer:

rules out "amateur" bodies like a silver rebel

;'-(

thatcloudthere

Canon EOS-1D

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

08/25/2004 04:22:01 PM · #9

So, what you're saying is that nobody will believe that I'm a professional with my Canon A40?

I would kill a dolphin for one of those unprofessional rebels!

Edit: I don't really want to kill a dolphin, though...I'll just save up.

Message edited by author 2004-08-25 16:22:30.

faidoi

Pentax K10D

08/25/2004 04:25:22 PM · #10

Professional photographer is a person that takes such beautiful images that people are willing to pay for them.

The amount of gear does not make a person a professional. The way they use that gear is what makes them a professional.

I'm willing to call some of the super ribbon winners pros simply because they consistently produce quality photos.

graphicfunk

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

08/25/2004 04:50:58 PM · #11

A professional photographer is not necessarily a top notch photographer.However, a professional photographer offers a photographic service for which he gets paid. If it choses product advertising he will usually deal with ad agencies who are very particular, so the work must be polished. All other fields have their criteria and they must be met to stay in business. A professional usually opens a studio.
A wedding photographer with a site and the tools and the ability to satisfy or sell his services is a professional.

Since each field is very competive then the one with the best work stays in business. So althought a pro may not be top notch, they have enough technique to satisfy their chosen field.

The subject of creativity is rather multi levelled and some photographers display it in many different ways. Each one studies according to their needs.

Assume that you will take 50 pros from the commercial product field and place them in a nude or glamour contest...Only the most talented and with the widest experience will excell. Yes, they will all light the model well, but all of the finese in posing, composing and cropping may be above most of their heads. Put them on table top and they will shine.

Azrifel

Nikon Coolpix P340

08/25/2004 06:04:24 PM · #12

A pro has to pay tax over the revenue generated with photography and can deduct his gear, travel and such as costs imho.
Pro quality is something different.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

08/25/2004 06:06:12 PM · #13

Lewis Collins or Martin Shaw.

There are a couple of ways you can look at it. First financially, if you get most of your income from something you can in someways consider yourself a 'professional' or that that field is your profession.

More importantly though, I think is conducting yourself in a professional manner - for photography this means having back up plans in place for weddings, rather than turning up with only one camera or one lens or one battery. It also means professional behaviour and the like.

Message edited by author 2004-08-25 18:08:06.

lentil

Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM

08/25/2004 06:10:34 PM · #14

Here is a local professional,

www.kenduncan.com.au

He makes SO much money from his photography, been to his gallery a few times and just drool

Loki

Nikon D70s

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

08/25/2004 06:14:03 PM · #15

pro·fes·sion·al -

1)
a. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.

b. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
2)
a. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.

b. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.

professional at dictionary.com

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

08/25/2004 06:27:01 PM · #16

I get paid for ALL my photography, I don't take photos anymore unless I'm being paid; not because I'm a slave to money but because I'm so busy the only time I get to photograph is for a gig. And yea no, I don't consider myself a professional because I have so much still to learn.
6 months from now I'd call myself a professional..don't get me wrong I tell all my customers I'm a pro :-) I guess opinions vary.

P.S. Oh yeah, and for me i think it's defined by experience. I don't have enough experience with different photography platforms to be called a professional.

P.P.S. I make more money [on average - lately] doing photography part time than working full time as an Executive Assistant. Go figure, I'm still broke.

Message edited by author 2004-08-25 18:29:08.

mrorange002

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

08/25/2004 06:54:35 PM · #17

I think a professional photographer is someone who relies solely on photography to fill their bellies and to pay their bills. Each professional has his or her special talents, or is able to provide a service that is consistant. There is ALWAYS someone better than you at photography, no matter what field your in. You might be an awsome studio photographer, but can't take a photo outside in the rain for s**t. Or you might be a top notch photojournalist who works by the millisecond, but get in a studio and you can't figure out the lights... Or you take awsome macro shots, but your scenics suck. Someone wrote in a thread yesterday how there are some pros on this site who blow. I really think that is totally unfair. They are professionals because they can provide a service in their field, they obviously aren't that bad if they can put food on the table and pay the mortgage with their camera. I've seen some extremely talented 'amature' photographers on this site who I think should quit their day jobs and take the leap.

I'm a "professional photographer" There are much better photographers around. But I love what I do and do it well enough to make a decent living. I've gotten to the point that I don't take photos unless I'm being paid. That is VERY sad.
Thankfully I joined this site because I've forgotten why I LOVE photography. I've lost the creative passion to MAKE photos. I'm trying to remember. Thanks to all of the "amature" photographers who are slowly making me wake up and remember.

That's what makes me a pro.
sorry for rambling.

P.S. Quit your day job!!!

Message edited by author 2004-08-25 18:56:56.

Ecce_Signum

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

08/25/2004 07:02:38 PM · #18

Originally posted by GoldBerry:

P.P.S. I make more money [on average - lately] doing photography part time than working full time as an Executive Assistant. Go figure, I'm still broke.

Well you do have a butterfingers partner!

This is a good question, I'd say if you get paid for a single job/picture then you are a professional for that job/pic. Now the grey area, say you sell a picture to a magazine that makes you a professional fotog right? but can you then advertise yourself as a professional wedding photographer? I think not.

The professional status in no way depicts how good you are at this 'profession' Being a semi-pro is a misnoma, if you get paid or have been paid for a job/pic then you must surely be classed as a professional?

08/25/2004 07:17:37 PM · #19

Then if this holds true, to break into any scene, you must first take a shot as an amature and then hope its good enough to get paid?

As an aside, lets say you try your hand as a wedding photographer and end up really sucking at it. Since you are not yet a Pro, might you be liable for the crappy pictures? or can you hide behind the fact that you are just an amature?

mrorange002

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

08/25/2004 07:24:23 PM · #20

Originally posted by ericlimon:

If my neighbor (who builds houses) takes a photo of his kid and I tell him he should sell it to Hallmark because it would look goos as a happy birthday card, and they buy it, he is NOT a pro.

Message edited by author 2004-08-25 19:25:17.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

08/25/2004 08:32:31 PM · #21

I've made $3.40 on istock.com!!! Am I a pro?

Gil P

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/25/2004 08:42:06 PM · #22

Like I said yeasterday....The girl at sears, she earns a living from taking pictures, she has a good camera, she has a good flash kit...even a studio...and to top it off, she has great consistency from shot to shot....

so she's a pro.....

hey, I'm an enthusiast...that got in heavy dept to get great gear....I've got great models, great shoots and most of all GREAT FUN...I sure hope I get beat by better than me when I enter challenges....'cause if I don't I'm either not as good as my mom as been telling me....or it's a conspiracy against us canadians.....again.

mrorange002

08/25/2004 08:58:18 PM · #23

Canook!

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

08/25/2004 11:23:50 PM · #24

I don't normally complain about spelling. No really, I don't.

But for the love of god,

amateur