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08/25/2004 03:48:20 PM · #1 |
This is just something that I noticed just I joined a few weeks ago and got addicted - I think the folks who run this site have a pretty good voting system - that most of the details about the photo including the photographer profile and details are left out of the voting process, therefore all us voters are judging from are just the photos.
However, I've noticed in many of the submissions, especially the "Hope" Theme that is currently up for votes, that many of the titles have to lead the voter toward their concept of hope. In other words, the photos don't necessarily convey the feeling or sense of hope, but one has to read the title and go, "Oh, that iguana is hoping to get a taste of that Mt. Dew. I get it."
Not really saying that Titles should be left out, but I just think that voters should keep that very much in mind, that the photos should convey that feeling that the theme suggests, and not rely on the title to tell the story. Just my two cents. |
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08/25/2004 04:06:48 PM · #2 |
Titles are important for many reasons. That's why books, paintings, sculptures, etc., have them. They give the mind a "hook" upon which to hang the memory. Choosing a title is an art form as well, and one that clearly requires skill and practice in developing. Many people use the title (incorrectly) to explain what their photo is. Others, as has been observed in other threads, try to make the theme emerge from the title rather than from the pic.
I say keep the titles. As we improve our photography, we'll improve our use of titles as well. |
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08/25/2004 04:08:06 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by diegomcnamara:
This is just something that I noticed just I joined a few weeks ago and got addicted - I think the folks who run this site have a pretty good voting system - that most of the details about the photo including the photographer profile and details are left out of the voting process, therefore all us voters are judging from are just the photos.
However, I've noticed in many of the submissions, especially the "Hope" Theme that is currently up for votes, that many of the titles have to lead the voter toward their concept of hope. In other words, the photos don't necessarily convey the feeling or sense of hope, but one has to read the title and go, "Oh, that iguana is hoping to get a taste of that Mt. Dew. I get it."
Not really saying that Titles should be left out, but I just think that voters should keep that very much in mind, that the photos should convey that feeling that the theme suggests, and not rely on the title to tell the story. Just my two cents. |
I think titles are important, too...but you're right about the pictures in the hope challenge. |
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08/25/2004 04:25:50 PM · #4 |
The use of titles seems to be the complaint du jour this week. I think the title is an important element too, but it shouldn't be used to shoehorn a cat photo into a dog challenge.
On the other hand, bear in mind that the Hope challenge didn't say anything about the photo having to convey a feeling. The direction was only to shoot something that represents hope. A food drop parachuting into a refugee camp in Sudan certainly represents hope, though it might not convey any emotion at all. Rationed food for thought. |
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08/25/2004 05:31:29 PM · #5 |
| I agree completely. There should not be a need to use the word hope. We know it's the hope challenge. Many, but not all of the photos using the word are pushing very hard to make it into the challenge. |
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08/26/2004 01:25:19 AM · #6 |
Thanks for everyone's feedback. I think some of the titles really enhance the photo's presence - there are many submissions whereby the title pegs the photo dead on, and it's wonderful. And of course, we should keep the titles - it's imperative that we do. I do think that in this particular challenge, because it's such a broad theme, people are tacking on anything and creating a title to match the theme. I say, let them. That's fine, this is a common ground for amateurs (me) and professionals and it's great that way. We have a lot to learn from each other.
It just is a sticky point for me because I hate to vote down a good picture because it has nothing to do with the theme in my mind. Oh well! |
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08/26/2004 01:46:40 PM · #7 |
| I think that the issue in my mind right now is this: Since we are to hold the subject of the challenge as the defining element when ranking photos, should I rank them on whether I can look at the photo and see anything which could be defined as conveying hope, or should I rank it on how well the photographer managed to explain via title that her/his image had anything to do with hope. I have to say that I'm leaning more on the photograph toute seule on this one. Most of these images look like the photographer was REALLY stretching to find something to photograph for the challenge. This is one challenge where I'm giving better scores to the cliches, just because there doesn't seem to be much middle ground. |
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08/26/2004 01:52:47 PM · #8 |
I think titles should be included when voting. Strong and good titles makes good images better but the add litle to poor images. Well that´s my opinion in most cases.
In most or all cases when people are trying to squiease there images into challenges bye the title it simply just dont work, so I don´t think this is a thing we have to worrie about. |
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08/26/2004 11:34:58 PM · #9 |
I tend to look at titles as the icing on the cake.
Every image can potentially mean something different to every viewer. If I look at a photo and see it in the same way the photographer saw it, the title is going to make it even better. If my interpretation of a photo doesn't match what the photographer was aiming for (as outlined by the title), I can then decide if it is possible for me to see the photo in the same way the photographer intended.
A good title has done its job if it enables me to stand in the photographer's shoes and see the image through his or her eyes. This, in my opinion, is a very important piece of the whole package.
A bad title, on the other hand, will not take away from my interpretation of a photo, but it will not offer me the added bonus of seeing it as the photographer intended.
As for the hope challenge ... A picture of clouds may not necessarily say hope to me personally, but I can see how it would represent hope to someone in the desert; therefore, after reading the title it becomes hopeful for me as well.
I am for judging the whole package. |
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08/26/2004 11:44:12 PM · #10 |
When you are looking at close to 300 entries or more I think that the title can be very important to help you see where the photographer is coming from. It would be great to spend 2-3 minutes on each photo and really see what the entry was trying to bring across. In actuality that would translate into up to 15 hours taken to vote and that doesn't count any comments left.
I believe that the title is just as important as adjusting the contrast. It makes a good photo better and adds just a little to it that helps to finish it. In no way can a good title or a contrast adjustment make a poor photo a ribbon winner! |
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08/27/2004 12:05:45 AM · #11 |
I have a slight pet peeve about titles as well, though I always give a great deal of benefit of the doubt when voting. Pretty much every photo meets the challenge in some way and that's enough for me to evaluate it on the merit of the subject. I do want to make the following points though:
1. I don't agree that books, paintings, sculptures, etc., have titles to enhance the meaning of the work of art itself. They are to allow people to discuss them easily without having to say "that painting by DaVinci where the woman with no eyebrows who's wearing a dark dress is kind of smiling but kind of not." If the title "Mona Lisa" was required to enhance the quality of that painting, then the painting would be lacking.
2. A bad title can hurt a work of art, but a great title doesn't make a mediocre piece of art any better. For instance, if the Mona Lisa had been titled "Frat Party at Luigi's House," it might not have received the recognition it deserved. But many great paintings, etc., are titled "Untitled" and this doesn't reduce their quality in any way.
3. That said, for photographs -especially photojournalism pictures- a title is often required to get across the meaning of what is going on. For example, the photo of the Viet Cong officer shooting a man in the head is not nearly as moving without knowing who the subjects are.
4. However, point #3 really doesn't apply to the challenges since they are all supposed to convey the same point, which is the title of the challenge. If we already know the point the photo is supposed to convey and can't figure it out without a title to explain, then I do think the photo is lacking. This especially goes for photos of a flower, insect, etc., that just has the same title as the challenge title and no other obvious relation to the theme of the challenge.
5. Forum posts with long-winded explanations are probably not nearly as effective as brief, pithy comments, but this is all I could come up with. :-)
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08/27/2004 12:15:58 AM · #12 |
Until we achieve complete cultural literacy and each of us understands every nuance of another's culture and experience, I do not believe we can completely understand the photographer's intent without the use of a title. In my culture, my representation of "hope" would be completely understandable without a title. However, in this challenge, it has become painfully apparent that not everyone (and possibly very few) share that same understanding. I tried to choose a title which at least pointed one in the right direction, but not everyone "gets it". That's o.k. Some do - and delightfully so (and thank you for your wonderful comments).
I would not assume that everyone whose entry does not fit with your particular notion of the topic is deliberately trying to circumvent the challenge. People (thankfully) look at things very differently - from their own experiences and from their own cultural backgrounds. That is one thing that makes this site so wonderful. I think it adds greatly to my understanding of human nature to try to understand those photos whose connection to the challenge escapes me the first time around. The titles are a wonderful clue, but I also try to imagine how the photographer interprets the topic and how far "out of the box" he or she might be going.
Many images on this site speak to me in a way that is probably different from the photographer's original intent. By paying attention to the title, I can often add and understand that intent and add that to the richness and complexity of the experience.
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08/27/2004 12:16:07 AM · #13 |
It might prove interesting to have a challenge on a theme in which no titles are allowed.I don't have a problem with titles. Even untitled poetry carry the title 'untitled', but I too agree that many of the titles with Hope are merely explanations and excuses to enter photos that have little to do with hope. If you have to explain your use of a shot for a theme using a title (remember a picture is worth a thousand words) . . .
Message edited by author 2004-08-27 00:16:34. |
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