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01/07/2013 12:56:32 PM · #226
Originally posted by Spork99:

So, are those little old ladies making up for something missing in their lives or what?

You're the one who made the observations about the little old ladies.......you tell me.

Personally, I think it's a pretty spiffy idea that car manufacturers are making cars so much more well-balanced than they used to...it's like after all the years of making poorly designed and executed cars, they finally figured out that they should make the brakes, suspension, & steering such that they are capable of working well in all but the most extreme of circumstances. And with ABS, traction control, active suspension, and air bags, a whole bunch safer.
01/07/2013 01:10:41 PM · #227
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Spork99:

So, are those little old ladies making up for something missing in their lives or what?

You're the one who made the observations about the little old ladies.......you tell me.

Personally, I think it's a pretty spiffy idea that car manufacturers are making cars so much more well-balanced than they used to...it's like after all the years of making poorly designed and executed cars, they finally figured out that they should make the brakes, suspension, & steering such that they are capable of working well in all but the most extreme of circumstances. And with ABS, traction control, active suspension, and air bags, a whole bunch safer.
'

I am with Jeb. Even Hollywood agrees.
01/07/2013 01:28:59 PM · #228
' . substr('//sadhillnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/obama-gun-salesman-of-the-year-firearms-salesman-of-the-century-sad-hill-news-1.jpg', strrpos('//sadhillnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/obama-gun-salesman-of-the-year-firearms-salesman-of-the-century-sad-hill-news-1.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

OK back on track
01/07/2013 02:28:02 PM · #229
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Spork99:

So, are those little old ladies making up for something missing in their lives or what?

You're the one who made the observations about the little old ladies.......you tell me.

Personally, I think it's a pretty spiffy idea that car manufacturers are making cars so much more well-balanced than they used to...it's like after all the years of making poorly designed and executed cars, they finally figured out that they should make the brakes, suspension, & steering such that they are capable of working well in all but the most extreme of circumstances. And with ABS, traction control, active suspension, and air bags, a whole bunch safer.


Of course they aren't. Neither are most gun owners.

As you pointed out, there are people who are seemingly filling a gap in their lives, be it with cars, guns or collections of Hummel figurines, but making such broad generalizations about everyone who owns such a car, gun or porcelain figurine is simply false.
01/07/2013 02:38:52 PM · #230
Originally posted by Kelli:

So many accidents... link. If a cop can't figure out how to not have an accident with a gun, what hope is there for everyone else?


You clearly haven't done much research into how much weapons training and on-going education cops receive.

The fact that they don't have accidents more often is a testament to the difficulty of screwing up with a gun, given the multiple safety systems in place.

You wanna make this whole "gun control" thing work?

Do what the auto industry did, go after the manufacturers - we're gonna own guns, but nowhere does it say that the guns can't be RFID locked to an implanted chip (frankly, I'd LOVE this, you can't shoot me with my own gun.)..

Or any one of a hundred other manufacturing ideas that would restrict guns to their rightful, hopefully responsible, owners. Do note that most guns used in these crimes aren't legally owned by the shooter.
01/07/2013 03:55:23 PM · #231
Originally posted by Cory:

Do what the auto industry did, go after the manufacturers - we're gonna own guns, but nowhere does it say that the guns can't be RFID locked to an implanted chip (frankly, I'd LOVE this, you can't shoot me with my own gun.)..


Joseph Dredd begs to differ.
01/07/2013 04:40:14 PM · #232
Originally posted by Spork99:

As you pointed out, there are people who are seemingly filling a gap in their lives, be it with cars, guns or collections of Hummel figurines, but making such broad generalizations about everyone who owns such a car, gun or porcelain figurine is simply false.

Here we go again.....

As *I* stated, it was cars *I* was talking about. I don't profess to know anything much about guns, and nothing about Hummels.

It was an *observation* of quite a few people that I have run into over the four decades that I was involved heavily in the sports and muscle car business, from when they were new cars all the way up through the resurgence and recreation of the popular ones. It *was* a generalization, but based on the fairly broad spectrum of people in and around the industry of which I was familiar. I honestly wonder why you're arguing this point, because it *IS* a stereotype, and for good reason. Of course other people than guys looking to bolster their ego and/or compensate for some inadequacy either real or imagined aren't the only owners, but seriously.....

Who do you think that Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler are making the new Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger for? You ever see much of anyone driving those cars other than fifty-something guys? Have you seen the price tags on one of those cars nicely equipped? There aren't high school kids buying Hemi cars or Camaros with rat motors that have bench seats, column shifts, and radio delete. These new muscle cars have *ALL* the bells & whistles. They're tapping into the very market you're arguing with me about.

C'mon.....get real.
01/07/2013 04:47:02 PM · #233
Originally posted by Cory:


Do what the auto industry did, go after the manufacturers - we're gonna own guns, but nowhere does it say that the guns can't be RFID locked to an implanted chip (frankly, I'd LOVE this, you can't shoot me with my own gun.)..



This was tried in the '80's after some scares over police officers losing their firearms or having them taken away etc. It used a ring on the shooting hand to "unlock" the firearm, but overall it was very unreliable, along with concerns about not being able to shoot with the non-dominant hand etc. Not to say it couldn't be improved, but the idea isn't new.
01/07/2013 04:48:04 PM · #234
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Who do you think that Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler are making the new Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger for? You ever see much of anyone driving those cars other than fifty-something guys?

Jeb, we AGREE with you that this is the target demographic, that's not in dispute. What we're disputing is your broad characterization of these men as having "a gap in their self-confidence".

01/07/2013 04:49:05 PM · #235
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Spork99:

As you pointed out, there are people who are seemingly filling a gap in their lives, be it with cars, guns or collections of Hummel figurines, but making such broad generalizations about everyone who owns such a car, gun or porcelain figurine is simply false.

Here we go again.....

As *I* stated, it was cars *I* was talking about. I don't profess to know anything much about guns, and nothing about Hummels.

It was an *observation* of quite a few people that I have run into over the four decades that I was involved heavily in the sports and muscle car business, from when they were new cars all the way up through the resurgence and recreation of the popular ones. It *was* a generalization, but based on the fairly broad spectrum of people in and around the industry of which I was familiar. I honestly wonder why you're arguing this point, because it *IS* a stereotype, and for good reason. Of course other people than guys looking to bolster their ego and/or compensate for some inadequacy either real or imagined aren't the only owners, but seriously.....

Who do you think that Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler are making the new Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger for? You ever see much of anyone driving those cars other than fifty-something guys? Have you seen the price tags on one of those cars nicely equipped? There aren't high school kids buying Hemi cars or Camaros with rat motors that have bench seats, column shifts, and radio delete. These new muscle cars have *ALL* the bells & whistles. They're tapping into the very market you're arguing with me about.

C'mon.....get real.


Although, strangely, I DO see a disproportionate number of 20-30 somethings driving Lamborghinis and Ferraris. Maybe they're rentals, or maybe the 'kids' are just fricken loaded, but it seems that the appeal of these cars isn't really limited to just the old guys. ;)

On that note, I think I'm going to rent the Nissan GTR sometime in the next couple of weeks.

As for the "gap" in confidence - I've rented Ferraris in the past - but have never actually driven one - I've just given them as presents (to my girlfriend and dad)... I do, however, actually want to beat on the GTR myself. :)

Then again, I suppose the fact that I can afford to rent supercars, but still drive a 250,000 mile Subaru station wagon probably says something....

Message edited by author 2013-01-07 16:51:40.
01/07/2013 04:51:17 PM · #236
Originally posted by Cory:


Although, strangely, I DO see a disproportionate number of 20-30 somethings driving Lamborghinis and Ferraris. Maybe they're rentals, or maybe the 'kids' are just fricken loaded, but it seems that the appeal of these cars isn't really limited to just the old guys. ;)

On that note, I think I'm going to rent the Nissan GTR sometime in the next couple of weeks.


talk about thread-jacking

i work in boca raton and i see maseratis, laborghinis and ferraris during my commute every day, and the vast majority of drivers are white, 50 something male drivers.

who suck at driving i might add.
01/07/2013 04:52:16 PM · #237
Originally posted by FourPointX:

Originally posted by Cory:


Although, strangely, I DO see a disproportionate number of 20-30 somethings driving Lamborghinis and Ferraris. Maybe they're rentals, or maybe the 'kids' are just fricken loaded, but it seems that the appeal of these cars isn't really limited to just the old guys. ;)

On that note, I think I'm going to rent the Nissan GTR sometime in the next couple of weeks.


talk about thread-jacking

i work in boca raton and i see maseratis, laborghinis and ferraris during my commute every day, and the vast majority of drivers are white, 50 something male drivers.

who suck at driving i might add.


Funny, lots of the drivers here in South Beach are 25-35 and black.

Message edited by author 2013-01-07 16:52:27.
01/07/2013 04:53:44 PM · #238
Originally posted by Spork99:


... Or soccer moms driving 3ton 4WD SUV's that have never been off pavement. Do they "need" that much power or capability? Or are they compensating for something?


... Don't know about where you live, but in these here parts, when one pushes the 4WD button on that sucker, that means you can drive as fast as you want through the ice and snow and you're gonna be fine. :O)

At least that is the impression I get when I see them pass me in the winter time and who eventually end up in the rhubarb patch a tad down the road.

Ray
01/07/2013 04:55:23 PM · #239
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Spork99:

As you pointed out, there are people who are seemingly filling a gap in their lives, be it with cars, guns or collections of Hummel figurines, but making such broad generalizations about everyone who owns such a car, gun or porcelain figurine is simply false.

Here we go again.....

As *I* stated, it was cars *I* was talking about. I don't profess to know anything much about guns, and nothing about Hummels.

It was an *observation* of quite a few people that I have run into over the four decades that I was involved heavily in the sports and muscle car business, from when they were new cars all the way up through the resurgence and recreation of the popular ones. It *was* a generalization, but based on the fairly broad spectrum of people in and around the industry of which I was familiar. I honestly wonder why you're arguing this point, because it *IS* a stereotype, and for good reason. Of course other people than guys looking to bolster their ego and/or compensate for some inadequacy either real or imagined aren't the only owners, but seriously.....

Who do you think that Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler are making the new Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger for? You ever see much of anyone driving those cars other than fifty-something guys? Have you seen the price tags on one of those cars nicely equipped? There aren't high school kids buying Hemi cars or Camaros with rat motors that have bench seats, column shifts, and radio delete. These new muscle cars have *ALL* the bells & whistles. They're tapping into the very market you're arguing with me about.

C'mon.....get real.


Maybe you should stick to talking about cars.

So you've observed that some percentage of people that buy cars that can accelerate and handle fit some profile? So what? Plenty of people who own those kinds of cars don't fit your stereotype. They may be a target market for the manufacturer, but people buy and drive cars for all manner of reasons.
01/07/2013 05:00:01 PM · #240
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Spork99:


... Or soccer moms driving 3ton 4WD SUV's that have never been off pavement. Do they "need" that much power or capability? Or are they compensating for something?


... Don't know about where you live, but in these here parts, when one pushes the 4WD button on that sucker, that means you can drive as fast as you want through the ice and snow and you're gonna be fine. :O)

At least that is the impression I get when I see them pass me in the winter time and who eventually end up in the rhubarb patch a tad down the road.

Ray


Once icy morning on the highway I had a guy in a Ford Explorer zoom past me, giving me the universal finger sign for "You're number one!" because I evidently didn't get out of his way fast enough. About 15 minutes later, who do I spy standing next to his vehicle which was wheels up in the ditch??? Yep, that guy... I honked and waved, he let me know I was still number one.
01/07/2013 05:01:07 PM · #241
Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Cory:


Do what the auto industry did, go after the manufacturers - we're gonna own guns, but nowhere does it say that the guns can't be RFID locked to an implanted chip (frankly, I'd LOVE this, you can't shoot me with my own gun.)..



This was tried in the '80's after some scares over police officers losing their firearms or having them taken away etc. It used a ring on the shooting hand to "unlock" the firearm, but overall it was very unreliable, along with concerns about not being able to shoot with the non-dominant hand etc. Not to say it couldn't be improved, but the idea isn't new.


I will assume that this inability was attributable to the implanted chip. I know that I was required to undergo regular training and demonstrate an ability to shoot with both hands... or did I simply not understand your comment?

Ray
01/07/2013 05:09:53 PM · #242
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Cory:


Do what the auto industry did, go after the manufacturers - we're gonna own guns, but nowhere does it say that the guns can't be RFID locked to an implanted chip (frankly, I'd LOVE this, you can't shoot me with my own gun.)..



This was tried in the '80's after some scares over police officers losing their firearms or having them taken away etc. It used a ring on the shooting hand to "unlock" the firearm, but overall it was very unreliable, along with concerns about not being able to shoot with the non-dominant hand etc. Not to say it couldn't be improved, but the idea isn't new.


I will assume that this inability was attributable to the implanted chip. I know that I was required to undergo regular training and demonstrate an ability to shoot with both hands... or did I simply not understand your comment?

Ray


You are correct. The concern had nothing to do with the officer's marksmanship. The "chip" was in the ring. When the gun was held in the off-hand, it would not fire because the chip that unlocked the gun was in the ring on the other hand.

Message edited by author 2013-01-07 17:10:21.
01/07/2013 05:31:19 PM · #243
Originally posted by Spork99:

You are correct. The concern had nothing to do with the officer's marksmanship. The "chip" was in the ring. When the gun was held in the off-hand, it would not fire because the chip that unlocked the gun was in the ring on the other hand.

You'd think if they were going to all that trouble and expense they could equip the officer with a ring for each hand ...
01/07/2013 05:50:16 PM · #244
Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Spork99:

As you pointed out, there are people who are seemingly filling a gap in their lives, be it with cars, guns or collections of Hummel figurines, but making such broad generalizations about everyone who owns such a car, gun or porcelain figurine is simply false.

Here we go again.....

As *I* stated, it was cars *I* was talking about. I don't profess to know anything much about guns, and nothing about Hummels.

It was an *observation* of quite a few people that I have run into over the four decades that I was involved heavily in the sports and muscle car business, from when they were new cars all the way up through the resurgence and recreation of the popular ones. It *was* a generalization, but based on the fairly broad spectrum of people in and around the industry of which I was familiar. I honestly wonder why you're arguing this point, because it *IS* a stereotype, and for good reason. Of course other people than guys looking to bolster their ego and/or compensate for some inadequacy either real or imagined aren't the only owners, but seriously.....

Who do you think that Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler are making the new Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger for? You ever see much of anyone driving those cars other than fifty-something guys? Have you seen the price tags on one of those cars nicely equipped? There aren't high school kids buying Hemi cars or Camaros with rat motors that have bench seats, column shifts, and radio delete. These new muscle cars have *ALL* the bells & whistles. They're tapping into the very market you're arguing with me about.

C'mon.....get real.


Maybe you should stick to talking about cars.

So you've observed that some percentage of people that buy cars that can accelerate and handle fit some profile? So what? Plenty of people who own those kinds of cars don't fit your stereotype. They may be a target market for the manufacturer, but people buy and drive cars for all manner of reasons.


I find it funny that Jeb's claim that a great deal of guys drive muscle cars and sportscars because they feel inadequate and have self confidence issues is dismissed by you as anecdotal, yet, you support the unfounded claim that guns are widely used successfully in self defense based upon what, oh yeah, anecdotal evidence.
01/07/2013 05:56:38 PM · #245
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Originally posted by Cory:

I just found a new use for guns.

Arguable a large capacity clip and assault rifle would be excellent for larger trees.


Are we supposed to be impressed? A 10-year-old could have taken that tree down with her bare hands.


Nope... You were supposed to laugh. Sorry about your impaired sense of humor! ;)


If he'd been trying to cut down a much larger tree and a couple of bullets had ricocheted back at him... that would have been funny!
01/07/2013 06:12:41 PM · #246
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Originally posted by Cory:

I just found a new use for guns.

Arguable a large capacity clip and assault rifle would be excellent for larger trees.


Are we supposed to be impressed? A 10-year-old could have taken that tree down with her bare hands.


Nope... You were supposed to laugh. Sorry about your impaired sense of humor! ;)


If he'd been trying to cut down a much larger tree and a couple of bullets had ricocheted back at him... that would have been funny!


Huh. So, since he owned a gun, you'd like him to have been shot?

Superb line of illogical thinking.

Honestly, I find your ignorance and attitude disgusting.

Cheers.
01/07/2013 06:14:36 PM · #247
yeah Judith that is pretty harsh there....I don't wish for people that own cars to run over themselves....
01/07/2013 06:32:07 PM · #248
Originally posted by Spork99:

Maybe you should stick to talking about cars.

Stick with me, maybe read a little slower, and ponder what I'm saying. Maybe you'll get the gist of it. I'm *not* making one single all-encompassing statement here about anything. I am passing along observations that I've made from having a forty year career working with the cars I'm talking about, the people who own them, and my compatriots in the industry. Whether you want to continue to try and bust my chops by obfuscating the relevant parts of the discussion is up to you, but it's really just kind of annoying. I do feel that with my experience having been entirely in the niche of which I speak that yes, I feel that I have some veracity when I make a *GENERAL* statement

I've emboldened my previous observations below so that you may be able to understand that there are *NO* finite claims......perhaps you'll take notice this time.
Originally posted by Spork99:

So you've observed that some percentage of people that buy cars that can accelerate and handle fit some profile?

See below....
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

It was an *observation* of quite a few people that I have run into over the four decades that I was involved heavily in the sports and muscle car business, from when they were new cars all the way up through the resurgence and recreation of the popular ones. It *was* a generalization, but based on the fairly broad spectrum of people in and around the industry of which I was familiar. I honestly wonder why you're arguing this point, because it *IS* a stereotype, and for good reason. Of course other people than guys looking to bolster their ego and/or compensate for some inadequacy either real or imagined aren't the only owners, but seriously.....

Originally posted by Spork99:

Plenty of people who own those kinds of cars don't fit your stereotype.

Again.....I even stated this myself, so it seems redundant, don't you think?

Oh, and by the way, it is certainly not *my* stereotype.....you're mistaken there. It's a common one. You might go to your Wikipedia, and look up the phrase "Mid-life crisis". Perhaps you'll better understand my point.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Who do you think that Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler are making the new Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger for? You ever see much of anyone driving those cars other than fifty-something guys? Have you seen the price tags on one of those cars nicely equipped? There aren't high school kids buying Hemi cars or Camaros with rat motors that have bench seats, column shifts, and radio delete. These new muscle cars have *ALL* the bells & whistles. They're tapping into the very market you're arguing with me about.

Originally posted by Spork99:

They may be a target market for the manufacturer, but people buy and drive cars for all manner of reasons.

Yes people *DO* buy and drive cars for all manner of reasons.....let's stay on track here.....

Multi-billion dollar corporations, the three automotive giants, build cars that are effective recreations of the cars from the muscle car era. You pretty much can't touch one of the "hot" ones for less than about $40K, and the killer cars......the Shelby, and the ZL1 Camaro will both go over $60K. You think there might be a stereotypical buyer they have their collective eyes on? They're not doing it for their own coolness factor.

Now really......ponder on those facts, and ask yourself.......who is really buying those cars?
01/07/2013 07:03:52 PM · #249
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:



If he'd been trying to cut down a much larger tree and a couple of bullets had ricocheted back at him... that would have been funny!


Huh. So, since he owned a gun, you'd like him to have been shot?

Superb line of illogical thinking.

Honestly, I find your ignorance and attitude disgusting.

Cheers.


cory, i didn't read that into her statement even before i read your response. not speaking for judith, but just telling ya i envisioned something cartoonish, not with the shooter getting shot.

edited for my poor copy/paste skills

Message edited by author 2013-01-07 19:05:35.
01/07/2013 07:38:21 PM · #250
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

<Obama pic snip>

OK back on track


This is fun!

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