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08/24/2004 04:38:33 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
DPC is great, its like owning a VW Beetle ... Only tonight I had a pm from a well known member saying they had seen a great improvement in my pictures since I joined and asked for critique of some of theirs |
Cool analogy, and more power to ya. :) |
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08/24/2004 04:47:56 PM · #77 |
[sarcasm]Maybe someone should start a sister website and not allow anyone that takes good pictures to join?? Who want's to join it? We can call it lesstalentedthenDPC.com.[/sarcasm]
I'd rather be an average photographer in a great field then a great photographer in a crappy field. Ask any minor leauge baseball player, they'd rather ride the bench in the pros then start daily in the minors.
This reminds me, awhile back I read an article about removing grades in schools because the kids that didn't do as well were getting their feelings hurt. I thought it was a stupid idea, still do.
As for experience, that matters little in photography. I'd bet a lot of the best photographers here do it as just a hobby and haven't been doing it for very long. And then there is Konodor, who takes better pictures then most of the people that have been taking pictures longer then he has been alive!
edited: ficticious website was clickable
Message edited by author 2004-08-24 16:49:19.
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08/24/2004 04:50:57 PM · #78 |
As Terry Pratchet states in 'Thief of Time'...the student follows the path to enlightenment...the wise man waits for it!
As it is with photography, if you dash around seeking the perfect picture, will you find it?
If you wait and learn, it will come to you!
Very phili...filli...phillifi...deeeeeep! |
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08/24/2004 05:01:21 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
I feel a strong need to reply to many of the assertions and ideas presented in this thread. .... lots deleted...... |
Applause! Kudos! Daniel - my hats off to you. This (your post) is another of your insightful and very constructive posts. You have a real talent for that! I agree with your sentiments fully.
Besides, it's nice to see someone who is older than me (a bit) having as much fun and learning as much as I am.
-Tom-
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08/24/2004 05:04:40 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by Wolfie:
As Terry Pratchet states in 'Thief of Time'...the student follows the path to enlightenment...the wise man waits for it!
As it is with photography, if you dash around seeking the perfect picture, will you find it?
If you wait and learn, it will come to you!
Very phili...filli...phillifi...deeeeeep! |
Like Terry Pratchet? I have 40 copies of Nightwatch hardback that I feed to my rabbit. Stops him from eating our other books - litle bugger loves the spines to gnaw his teeth on.
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08/24/2004 05:11:18 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
Originally posted by Wolfie:
As Terry Pratchet states in 'Thief of Time'...the student follows the path to enlightenment...the wise man waits for it!
As it is with photography, if you dash around seeking the perfect picture, will you find it?
If you wait and learn, it will come to you!
Very phili...filli...phillifi...deeeeeep! |
Like Terry Pratchet? I have 40 copies of Nightwatch hardback that I feed to my rabbit. Stops him from eating our other books - litle bugger loves the spines to gnaw his teeth on. |
Wrong book, should feed him Guards, Guards, Guards!! More Carrot in it!! |
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08/24/2004 05:14:27 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by photom:
Besides, it's nice to see someone who is older than me (a bit) having as much fun and learning as much as I am.
-Tom- |
My husband bought a t-shirt that has "Old Dudes Rule" on it (it's a surfing line of clothing); we need DPC versions! I have been told I am a geezer-in-training at 48!! lol
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08/24/2004 05:18:42 PM · #83 |
My thoughts:
If you aren't happy with the way the site is run, nobody is forcing you to be here.. so why remain and bitch about it? What's positive about that?
Personally, I'm honored to be allowed to be among so many talented people, to be able to vote and comment on their works, and to be able to have them vote and comment on mine (even if I *am* just on my first challenge), and have that opportunity to both learn, *and* teach.. for a teacher is a student and a student always teaches.
Seperating people *never* works.. and I would never in a million years call for it to be done here at DPchallenge. Togetherness is how the masters pass on the knowledge to the apprentices.. I am your padawan.. show me the way!
(ok, I'll go to the geek corner now.. sorry about that last bit ;)) |
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08/24/2004 05:19:11 PM · #84 |
Getting so called "better as a photographer" and getting higher on challenge scores is two totally separate things. Lets not get crazy here. You can text get better at photography and the objective "talent" level can increase with "seeing" better pictures through practice and technique. It is true- most great artists didn't get great because of art school you either can paint and have talent or you don't.
The lines are more blurred in photography in my opinion. You can get better through practice- or examination of technique. Oh yeah- and let me put it this way- there is a concept in art, whether it be visual or music or poetry or novels, the concept of an opus or masterpiece or several "good" works. Some painters have a schlocky body of work and yet one or two paintings are really outstanding, same with poets, composers, etc. And here is the thing- unlike any other artform- digital photography allows for literally thousands of compositions in a very short period of time...
so my whole point is that it is more likely in this context for a so called "amatuer" with a crappy camera to win a competition here than in many other artforms(is a similar site was created).
This point is hammered home by the fact that alot of people just have too much money and buy very expensive cameras and become very proficient at taking "hotel art" sort of shots. And who needs bubblegum -pop photography any more than top forty bubblegum pop music?
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08/24/2004 05:20:01 PM · #85 |
I am going to spawn a new thread on the subject of 'getting better'....
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08/24/2004 05:36:19 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I am going to spawn a new thread on the subject of 'getting better'.... |
Didnt know you were I'll John ;)
Getting better is something I hope to get better at!
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08/24/2004 05:46:09 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by louddog:
I'd rather be an average photographer in a great field then a great photographer in a crappy field. |
This is almost WORD FOR WORD what I was about to post.
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I can't help but thinking that the definition of what constitutes an amateur or beginners level is actually just the arbitrary level at which the images of the person calling for it become the best in the heap.
Message edited by author 2004-08-24 18:15:39.
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08/24/2004 05:57:15 PM · #88 |
I see this is a passionate subject, and a frustrating one too!
Message edited by author 2004-08-24 17:57:27. |
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08/24/2004 06:14:57 PM · #89 |
what I see as the point that lies behind this argument is that people want to "win" or place high in the scores. When those high places get taken by the "regulars" people get p***ed and want to find ways of lessening the competition. To split it into categories is one way of doing this ;)
Personally, I joined and became a member virtually straight away, keen to get posting in the challenges. My highest score was a 5 something, which, whilst disappointing, is at the end of the day, a combination of people's varied opinions on how my pic related to the challenge and whether they understood it, or liked it etc.
However, the more challenges i look at and the subsequent winners, the more I understand the "type" of photo that might appeal to everyone - because I firmly consider myself a photogrpahic ARTIST not a factual, archival photographer - i LOVE photoshop and the fact that you can make a great photo/piece of art with a not-so-hot image but doging/burning etc etc, but to many this is horror of horrors that the picture isn't pixel-perfect before hand.
However, I know outside of the challenges i have a good portfolio building up despite it not being to everyone's taste so really, I couldn't give a monkeys. I had my doubts a while ago because i couldn't see to get above a 5, but other people have reassured me so i'm happier!
The point I am trying to make, is submit your favourite shots or your best attempt at meeting the challenge and develop a thick skin when it doesn't get in the top ten. Experiment, learn, ask questions and above all ENJOY IT, but you won't be able to enjoy it if you only want to win those ribbons. |
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08/24/2004 06:21:36 PM · #90 |
| I think we should be able to say if we are an amerture or a pro. Maybe this would help us. Maybe we could add it somewere to the Title of the photo, or have another place to put it. We could enter A for Amerture or P for Pro. |
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08/24/2004 06:23:21 PM · #91 |
| Wow, then we need "rules" to set what a pro is or is not... |
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08/24/2004 06:25:09 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by Gil P:
Wow, then we need "rules" to set what a pro is or is not... |
Exactly, I had free beer for a night taking pictures at a wedding reception, am I a pro? (I think not).
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08/24/2004 06:45:32 PM · #93 |
as a former "pro" and pretty much a lurker here, i'm compelled to add my 2 cents...
i like the fact that there aren't too many rules and divisions here... keep it simple until there are so many entries and participants that we NEED more categories. often the coolest things in life are about the POSSIBILITIES not the restrictions. i personally don't know who's who here and who shoots for a living and who doesn't. i feel lucky to to view this stuff and hear from the photogs and learn new technique from everybody and anybody!!!
besides, being a "professional" really doesn't mean @#$%... just that you're receiving money for clicking a shutter... you'd be surprised to find out how many 'ams' are better than a lot of 'pros' out there...
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08/24/2004 07:22:40 PM · #94 |
| wow, so THIS is what it feels like to have the last word... |
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08/24/2004 07:28:10 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by kent:
wow, so THIS is what it feels like to have the last word... |
nope :)
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08/24/2004 07:52:20 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by kent:
as a former "pro" and pretty much a lurker here, i'm compelled to add my 2 cents...
i like the fact that there aren't too many rules and divisions here... keep it simple until there are so many entries and participants that we NEED more categories. often the coolest things in life are about the POSSIBILITIES not the restrictions. i personally don't know who's who here and who shoots for a living and who doesn't. i feel lucky to to view this stuff and hear from the photogs and learn new technique from everybody and anybody!!!
besides, being a "professional" really doesn't mean @#$%... just that you're receiving money for clicking a shutter... you'd be surprised to find out how many 'ams' are better than a lot of 'pros' out there... |
I was just thinking the same thing, Kent. This site is hardly about the strengths and weaknesses of the professionals vs. the amateurs. I find most serious amateurs have better equipment than most professionals do.
To me, this site is more a competition to create the most widely appreciated photograph that conforms to a given topic. I don't think the technical attributes can be accurately judged by hundreds of people who admittedly don't yet understand what to look for technically. And I don't believe that anyone clearly understands how to compose a photograph that pleases everyone. The challenge topics themselves are viewed through cultural and religious barriers and that alone can earn a well executed photograph a low score.
So it's not about who's a better photographer at all in my opinion.
To me, the fun here is just viewing the creativity of other peoples work. There are a lot of pictures here that don’t score as high and still blow my mind. The photos with over-all appeal still seem to work their way to the top.
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08/24/2004 07:58:12 PM · #97 |
DPC is a true blessing for the student of photography. Consider the following: you are taken with a passion for the camera. You are just starting out and perhaps you have the goal of getting better. Is it not nice to join a site where you will have an instant feedback by simply comparing your efforts against those who are more advanced. Think, it tells you how much you need to catch up. If you were with all neophytes, then you could not really gauge your progress because you would all be patting yourselves in the back and no incentive to push yourselves.
I say that I learn by looking at pictures daily. Well, I really mean that I study a few pictures a day. I ask myself, how was this done and can I do it better? I look carefully at compositions and the more I look, the more I learn.
The scholars study a good picture and they reach certain undestandings, but the nucleus of a great image remains beyond their grasps. Some try the same formula but their results do not equal success. What remains undefined is the creative soul of the image. Because the equation of creativity is present it suddenly passes into art. This is why I admire all masters in their respective fields. I like traditional photograhy, modern and digital art. To say that you despise this or that art form is to shortchange your enjoyment. Extending your horizons will never contaminate your aesthetic sense. There are compositional ideas to be learned from all types of different forms of photography.
Here at DPC you have a motley group and some members have a unique sense of presentation. I beg to differ, If I was a neophyte, and I wanted to improve, I would opt for a place where both pros and amateurs compete. Think of all the lessons waiting for me in each challenge. What a supplement to my personal homework. If I see images that are beyond my technique, I want to ask and bug the creators to show me. Another thing, many of the amateurs here are producing professional images. Look at the archives..it is awesome. I repeat, no better place to learn.
Message edited by author 2004-08-24 22:15:21. |
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08/24/2004 08:04:19 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
Here at DPC you have a motley group and some members have a unique sense of presentation. I beg to differ, If I was a neophyte, and I wanted to improve, I would opt for a place where both pros and amateurs compete. Think of all the lessons waiting for me in each challenge. |
I agree with this 100%. The problem is that a lot of people want to win ribbons more than anything. They won't come out and say "I would rather have a better chance of winning a ribbon with my current skills rather than having to wait until I improve to that point."
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08/24/2004 08:17:15 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
Here at DPC you have a motley group and some members have a unique sense of presentation. I beg to differ, If I was a neophyte, and I wanted to improve, I would opt for a place where both pros and amateurs compete. Think of all the lessons waiting for me in each challenge. |
I agree with this 100%. The problem is that a lot of people want to win ribbons more than anything. They won't come out and say "I would rather have a better chance of winning a ribbon with my current skills rather than having to wait until I improve to that point." |
Bingo. I think you nailed it. It is an easy trap to fall into, but I really do hope that DPC isn't just a contest to most. It is so much more.
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08/24/2004 08:21:26 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by Kylie:
Bingo. I think you nailed it. It is an easy trap to fall into, but I really do hope that DPC isn't just a contest to most. It is so much more. |
I think it is about the contest moreso than anything else. Learning is a secondary result of that.
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