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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> Approaching the "Family Question" with tact
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11/20/2012 10:39:05 PM · #1
So my cousin asked me to do her daughter's wedding for her and wanted to know what I'd charge. Usually I'd charge $1200, but there is no way they'd pay this.

I do not feel like doing all that work for free, not even for less than a few hundred bucks. There is no way they'd pay this either. Nothing against them at all, but it would either be maybe a couple hundred for the "gesture" or (what my wife says) that I decide to gift it.

How should I approach this? How can I tactfully illustrate the massive amount of work involved? The "not enjoying the actual wedding," the "posing family members while not being taken seriously enough so I get 20 pictures of people looking in different directions because I'm just the family member and nobody looks at me when I say look at me," the "hours editing that is unseen and unknown by people not familiar with the process," etc, etc, etc.

(They also asked my wife, a make up artist, the same thing involving the make up.)

Help?
11/20/2012 10:40:22 PM · #2
Of course, I could just say "no," or give them a quote of $1200, but then I'm an ass for not bending over for the family.
11/20/2012 10:49:32 PM · #3
I think in situations like this, your only option is to tell youself you're doing as a gift and make sure they understand you get what you pay for or don't do it at all. If you just chalk it up as a gift rather than lower your rate you'll be less bitter about it.
And then I sure as hell would not get them a another gift, as this one would be generous enough.
11/20/2012 11:00:39 PM · #4
Originally posted by adigitalromance:

the "posing family members while not being taken seriously enough so I get 20 pictures of people looking in different directions because I'm just the family member and nobody looks at me when I say look at me,"


Gift it = less bitter = agree.
However I think the above snip quote is the most important part. This is where you could run into a lot of problems which could potentially completely stuff up the photographic memories from the day. You need to be firm and pull off the 'I'm the pro photog, do what I say' bit and control everyone.
11/20/2012 11:44:44 PM · #5
Tough one..... I kinda like the concept of an invoice with the full value on it and a line item with discount or pre paid or gift or something. Are you going to charge them your costs? If so just break out creative fee & costs and discount out/off the creative fee?

I was asked to do one recently for a family member and I got out of it luckily..... So I wish you good luck.....

Message edited by author 2012-11-20 23:46:54.
11/20/2012 11:55:19 PM · #6
I've shot two (2) weddings, both for free. The first was for a co-worker I really enjoyed working with, and he offered to pay but I said because I wasn't a pro I'd do it as my gift to them. The benefit was that I really enjoyed it! Both the shooting and the post production, and mostly seeing them enjoy the end product. I had a friend work as a second shooter (also a non-pro) and he was quite innovative - he found a place with a nice bench outside of the reception location, and stopped all the guests (he didn't know any of 'em!) as they headed for the reception and got shots of everyone - a great keepsake for the couple. And I'd brought my laptop - we took all the small jpegs and simply loaded them into a slideshow to show during the reception (no editing, of course) - HUGE hit!

The second wedding, I didn't know anyone! The guy who helped me out with that wedding was asked to shoot one for his wife's brother, and I shot second for him. It was a blast! It was a German wedding with a very large family and it was nice to see some different traditions.

In short, both were very satisfying experiences for me, so it was worth it. BUT I do not shoot professionally - and I'm sure that makes a difference.

Do you like this particular relative? Would you take personal satisfaction from doing a good job for them? Or would it just be a chore/obligation?
11/21/2012 12:06:46 AM · #7
I would say that I'd prefer them to hire someone else so I could enjoy the wedding of my relative fully.

11/21/2012 12:18:58 AM · #8
hmmmm... with that subject, I thought you were wondering how to ask if someone was pregnant...

sorry!

Next thread...
11/21/2012 12:37:21 AM · #9
I guess I don't understand why you can't just decide what you want to do it for and then just be honest. Say you decided to do it for half your usual price, you say to them: I normally charge 1200 but since you are family I will be happy to do it for 600 and have the other half be my gift to them. If they act funny or you sense this is more than they expected to pay then just graciously say that you totally understand if this doesn't work into their budget and you will not be offended at all if they decide to go with someone else. Now they have no way of calling you a jerk because you offered a generous discount, gave them a way out if it doesn't work, and now it is just up to them to take you up on your offer or not.
11/21/2012 12:40:22 AM · #10
I agree with LydiaToo. Have them pick out someone else, so you can actually relax at the family wedding. I did this exact thing at my youngest brothers wedding and didn't regret it. Because if you normally charge $1200, gunna need a extra $500 just for aggravation..
11/21/2012 01:33:10 AM · #11
You: "Oh sure, I'd love to!"
Them: "Great"

--
Two days elapse
--

You: "Hey, sorry about this, but when did you say your wedding was?"
Them: "bleh date, blah, flowers, dress, blah"
You: "Yeah, dang - that's what I though - I forgot but I have a four-day engagement shoot out of state during that period"
Them: "Bleat, bleat"
You: "I know, I'm so sorry - but these clients are paying me $1800 a day plus expenses, tell ya what, let me pay $200 towards anther photographer as a wedding gift"...
Them: "Cool"

---
Day of wedding
--

You: "Hey - that client canceled, glad you found another shooter, guess I'll just enjoy myself and celebrate with you"...
Them: smile.
11/21/2012 07:01:04 AM · #12
Originally posted by Cory:

Them: "bleh date, blah, flowers, dress, blah"

You obviously love weddings.
11/21/2012 07:09:11 AM · #13
tell them you'd rather attend as a guest than as a hired photographer and you wont be able to enjoy the wedding if you are working it.
11/21/2012 07:18:34 AM · #14
Most of the responses assume that he will be invited as a guest if he doesn't play ball!
11/21/2012 08:11:38 AM · #15
to me, it depends on why they are asking you to shoot the wedding. is it because of the money that they either don't have or don't want to spend?

more than likely, it's because they think they can get a cadillac for the price of a vw.

and what i'd tell them, with a smile, is that, "i'd love to do this for you, but be forewarned, you will get what you pay for..." and i'd explain that as much as i'd like to give them everything, for free, as a gift, i simply cannot afford to. i'd tell them that i would have no problem bringing my gear and doing my best to shoot it all as a gift, but that's all i can do. i can give them the photos out of camera, or they can pay my normal rate for any post-production, prints, etc. "look, cuz, i love ya, i love your daughter, and you know i'd love to do this for you, but seriously, i charge over $1000 for this and as much as i wish i could, i simply can't afford to give this away for free, and i sure would hate for something like this to damage our relationship."

i personally wouldn't care about any potential "damage to my brand" by any photos being out there that i didn't process. over the years, i've found that fear to be pretty much unwarranted.

good luck...
11/21/2012 08:41:22 AM · #16
Originally posted by SaraR:

Most of the responses assume that he will be invited as a guest if he doesn't play ball!


Even better if he's not.
11/21/2012 08:42:26 AM · #17
Originally posted by Skip:

to me, it depends on why they are asking you to shoot the wedding. is it because of the money that they either don't have or don't want to spend?

more than likely, it's because they think they can get a cadillac for the price of a vw.

and what i'd tell them, with a smile, is that, "i'd love to do this for you, but be forewarned, you will get what you pay for..." and i'd explain that as much as i'd like to give them everything, for free, as a gift, i simply cannot afford to. i'd tell them that i would have no problem bringing my gear and doing my best to shoot it all as a gift, but that's all i can do. i can give them the photos out of camera, or they can pay my normal rate for any post-production, prints, etc. "look, cuz, i love ya, i love your daughter, and you know i'd love to do this for you, but seriously, i charge over $1000 for this and as much as i wish i could, i simply can't afford to give this away for free, and i sure would hate for something like this to damage our relationship."

i personally wouldn't care about any potential "damage to my brand" by any photos being out there that i didn't process. over the years, i've found that fear to be pretty much unwarranted.

good luck...


Great advice.
11/21/2012 09:04:21 AM · #18
Simple rule:

If off season, I would do it at cost. If its during season and you are losing business, I'ld refuse (gently) to do it. I tend to avoid shooting for family as work.

If you do it, maybe they can be advert material?

Thats my take on it.

Edit: if its people whos wedding Ild care to be at, Id rather be part of it than shoot it

Message edited by author 2012-11-21 09:07:40.
11/21/2012 09:32:40 AM · #19
OK... I'm not even bothering to read other replies.
from experience with other things dealing with family... DONT GIVE AWAY YOUR SERVICES FOR FREE... OR EVEN AT A STEEP DISCOUNT. PERIOD.

if you do this as a gift or for a few hundred... everyone else will expect the same from you. "well... you did so-and-so's wedding for free and you can't even take our Christmas pictures?"... etc.
you WILL be the bad Guy no matter what.

quote them what you'd quote a normal customer and tell them you can give them a xx% "friends and family" discount.

they can accept that oor look elsewhere.
obviously they are asking you because they like your work.
don't let them walk all over you.

remember, you get what you pay for. if they want a "cheap wedding photographer" they will get cheap wedding photos.
if they want quality, they need to be willing to pay for it.
11/21/2012 11:47:36 AM · #20
Originally posted by sjhuls:

I guess I don't understand why you can't just decide what you want to do it for and then just be honest. Say you decided to do it for half your usual price, you say to them: I normally charge 1200 but since you are family I will be happy to do it for 600 and have the other half be my gift to them. If they act funny or you sense this is more than they expected to pay then just graciously say that you totally understand if this doesn't work into their budget and you will not be offended at all if they decide to go with someone else. Now they have no way of calling you a jerk because you offered a generous discount, gave them a way out if it doesn't work, and now it is just up to them to take you up on your offer or not.


I second this approach probably with less of a discount but I think this is your best bet of wriggling out of the situation unscathed.
11/21/2012 12:22:11 PM · #21
My wife's uncle gifted us our wedding photos, as our wedding present. He's long gone now, but we treasure those images, and every time we see them, it not only brings back our day, but also fond memories of him.

We were poor as church mice then, and would never have been able to have professional pictures taken, if not for him.

At the same time, a gift is not a gift, if not freely given. If you do not want to do this as a gift, you shouldn't. No harm, no foul...
11/21/2012 12:34:44 PM · #22
tell them you get what you pay for, my normal price is $1200 and this is what that entails.
you're family, if you want this for free you don't get priority processing service, you don't get to complain if other family members are treating me like family and not a professional photographer, You get to be bride-zilla and tell everybody to fall in line because this is being done for free/cheap, or you pay me my rate and i take on the role of bad guy who busts heads when people aren't co-operating for photos.
Alternately they can hire someone else and avoid the potential family drama that comes with the perceived notion of a family member bossing them around.

Message edited by author 2012-11-21 12:36:31.
11/21/2012 01:00:32 PM · #23
I really feel for you being put in this position and it brings back unpleasant memories of when I was asked to shoot my Nephew's wedding last new year's eve.

In my situation it started as they wanted me to shoot the wedding for free if they would pay to fly me from Seattle to Pennsylvania and put me up in a room. This morphed into me paying for the expensive holiday airfare myself, the room turned out to be at a friend of a friend's house far from the wedding site, and the venue turned out to be a very dark church.
I ended up eating the cost of the airfare ( I didn't even go to the wedding) and sending the bride and groom a substantial amount of money to apply toward getting a local photographer to do the wedding and just washed my hands of the whole thing. And I hadn't even thought about the possible issue of not being taken seriously when it came time to get the attention of family members.

I would be inclined to bow out if I were you as it isn't fair for us as photographers to be expected to work for free by all family. Or if you do it, just do it as a gift. If you do bow out though, just point them in the right direction to hopefully find a qualified photographer and leave it at that. I stepped in a little when the photographer the bride thought was perfect was pretty lousy in my view. They went with this photographer anyway, the few images I saw on Facebook were not great but the couple seemed happy, so fine.

Best of luck figuring out this delicate situation :)

Message edited by author 2012-11-21 13:00:54.
11/21/2012 01:11:20 PM · #24
One reason I don't shoot weddings. Any weddings. Too much work for too little pay. My bottom price would be 5 grand. Probably another reason I don't shoot weddings ;-}
11/21/2012 01:36:40 PM · #25
Originally posted by Brent_S:

I really feel for you being put in this position and it brings back unpleasant memories of when I was asked to shoot my Nephew's wedding last new year's eve.

oh, now i remember that, too...
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