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10/24/2012 12:18:18 PM · #1 |
It's a subject we skirt here at DPC often, yet I don't think we've ever had a direct discussion about it.
Is it the job of the photographer to ensure that the viewer is immediately and strongly connected to the topic or challenge theme?
Or, is it the job of the viewer to find the connection to the topic or challenge theme?
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10/24/2012 12:20:45 PM · #2 |
| the photographer needs to bridge the gap to the viewer. viewers are lazy. |
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10/24/2012 12:22:29 PM · #3 |
The answer is, "Yes"
It's like a conversation, it's not going to work if one person is speaking, but the other isn't listening or one person is listening, but the other is babbling baby talk.
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10/24/2012 12:23:48 PM · #4 |
The photographer is not obliged to make the photo meet the challenge description in an obvious manner. But the photographer should not be surprised (and should not whine) if their score is low if they choose not to to have it obvious.
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10/24/2012 12:25:08 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
The photographer is not obliged to make the photo meet the challenge description in an obvious manner. But the photographer should not be surprised (and should not whine) if their score is low if they choose not to to have it obvious. |
Bingo.
This is my sentiment exactly.
Also, what's obvious to one person can be completely missed by another. Again, not the voters fault if they fall into the later camp. |
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10/24/2012 12:26:45 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by bassbone:
The photographer is not obliged to make the photo meet the challenge description in an obvious manner. But the photographer should not be surprised (and should not whine) if their score is low if they choose not to to have it obvious. |
Bingo.
This is my sentiment exactly.
Also, what's obvious to one person can be completely missed by another. Again, not the voters fault if they fall into the later camp. |
Bummer...I agree with  Venser. I need to go back and reconsider my thoughts... ;-P
Back to the thread...I personally love the subtle entries since I like to linger over the images. Many of the more subtle entries are those that end up Fave'ing.
Message edited by author 2012-10-24 12:28:09. |
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10/24/2012 12:31:15 PM · #7 |
If the photographer seeks a high score, then it is their responsibility to make the connection to the topic obvious. If they are after something else with the entry, such as appealing to a specific niche audience, then who cares?
That being said, visual strength still counts for more in voting than meeting every person's interpretation of the topic does. You will get lowballed for a poor image more heavily than for not fitting the topic in everyone's eyes.
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10/24/2012 12:31:23 PM · #8 |
As a photographer, you're trying to reach your audience......the viewer. Of course it's on you as a photog to convey a clear message to a directed audience.
Bear in mind, the direction may not always be clear, but the only one who has any say over the viewer's perception is the creator of the image.
Here, in challenges, the ball is entirely in the photgrapher's court.
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10/24/2012 12:35:11 PM · #9 |
| onuses are like opinions. Everybody has one. |
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10/24/2012 12:45:11 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
onuses are like opinions. Everybody has one. |
that's anuses ;) |
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10/24/2012 12:47:49 PM · #11 |
captain obvious here (or so I've been told) -
There are lots of ways to skin a cat.... and many more to interpret a challenge. I always try and adhere to the topic when entering, and assume others do too. If I don't see relevance to a topic right away when voting, I skip it and go back again because I must have missed something. Or, maybe I just like the photo.
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10/24/2012 12:49:03 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
The answer is, "Yes"
It's like a conversation, it's not going to work if one person is speaking, but the other isn't listening or one person is listening, but the other is babbling baby talk. |
Originally posted by bassbone:
The photographer is not obliged to make the photo meet the challenge description in an obvious manner. But the photographer should not be surprised (and should not whine) if their score is low if they choose not to to have it obvious. |
Both of these are completely true.
However, I think we hope that the viewers at DPC are more discerning, more interested, more intelligent.
Many are.
However, many are here just for the cheap thrills. The 30 second quickies. (I can't believe I just said that... :)
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10/24/2012 12:52:13 PM · #13 |
"Our job is to record, each in his own way, this world of light and shadow and time that will never come again exactly as it is today."
--Edward Abbey
I take responsibility for the caliber of my photographs.
"A great photograph is one that fully expresses what one feels, in the deepest sense, about what is being photographed, and is, thereby, a true manifestation of what one feels about life in its entirety..."
--Ansel Adams
My goal is always to capture images of the beautiful world I live in to the best of my ability and present the images as I saw it with my own eyes. Not everyone likes my photography and that's okay. I don't photography wildlife, nature and landscapes with a target market in mind. I photograph the things l love and wish to share. The sales part is a second derivative. |
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10/24/2012 01:05:23 PM · #14 |
Actually the onus of the photographer is to say what he/she wants to say
The onus of the viewer is to see what he/she wants to see.
A good photographer will have lots of things to say -- hopefully not the same thing over and over again. But that's their choice.
A good viewer will look beyond the blatantly obvious, to see if there's anything there worth seeing.
We get out of it what we put into it. If we expand our horizons as photographers, our horizons are expanded as viewers. If we expand our horizons as viewers, our horizons are thus expanded as photographers.
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10/24/2012 01:11:46 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
However, I think we hope that the viewers at DPC are more discerning, more interested, more intelligent. |
Why?
Originally posted by vawendy:
However, many are here just for the cheap thrills. The 30 second quickies. (I can't believe I just said that... :) |
And? Does it make their assessment of an entry any less valid? |
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10/24/2012 01:15:07 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
...
A good photographer will have lots of things to say -- hopefully not the same thing over and over again. But that's their choice.
... |
I sometimes hear from the younger people that they want to see something new and creative. If it's been done before, they are not interested. As one grows older, one learns there is really nothing new under the sun. There's nothing wrong with photographing a subject time and time again... until one gets it perfectly done right. One of my favorite quotes below, which always comes into my mind when I'm photographing a familiar subject.
"It's my private mountain. It belongs to me. God told me if I painted it enough, I could have it." (Georgia O'Keeffe) |
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10/24/2012 01:43:09 PM · #17 |
| Viewing is like reading. Some people just want to suck down pulpy, easy to read stuff like "Twilight" or "Harry Potter" and others think that stuff is crap and would rather read something like Shakespeare or "Ulysses" which require effort to comprehend. |
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10/24/2012 01:48:56 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Viewing is like reading. Some people just want to suck down pulpy, easy to read stuff like "Twilight" or "Harry Potter" and others think that stuff is crap and would rather read something like Shakespeare or "Ulysses" which require effort to comprehend. |
My problem is when people dismiss voters who like the pulpy shit and use elitist terms to patronize voters who spend time analyzing an image. Opinions from both are equally valid in terms of this website. |
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10/24/2012 02:03:22 PM · #19 |
I agree with the "enter at your own risk philosophy" of DPC, but
my problem with everyone agreeing that entrants should be happy to have to pander to the lowest common denominator is that this type of talk leads to literal interpretations of the challenge only.
We should revel in the creativity that the challenges can bring, and not accept lazy, narrow minded thinking of voters, at least in these here discussion threads. |
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10/24/2012 02:06:21 PM · #20 |
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10/24/2012 02:14:49 PM · #21 |
Regarding "narrow minded voters", I wonder how many of us have thought that through? In the context of this particular discussion, it doesn't really have any meaning. We seem to be talking about whether voters take the time to study and appreciate more subtle/less literal images, and I don't think that has any relationship to whether or not one's an open-minded voter. No, it's just a matter of how motivated one is, how much work one's willing to put into the process.
In a way, for me, that's the problem I see here, if we want to call it a problem; that the issue of "superficial voting" is kind of self-fulfilling, that when we see the same obvious solutions to the same challenges rising to the top over and over again we get less motivated to look any more deeply into the images, because "what difference will it make?"
Or something like that... Ramble over :-) |
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10/24/2012 03:22:52 PM · #22 |
Both.
Neither.
The magic of photography is that it invites the chance meeting of a static image out of time and a living person with their current inventory of experiences. As photographer, I get to select and create the static image. As viewer, I get to relate to the image through my personal filter.
I believe that it is really common for viewers to see things or read meaning into things the photographer never intended or saw. I also believe it is both a skill and an art for the photographer to include enough context in their photo so that it, and it alone communicates their intended meaning across time and space. |
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10/24/2012 03:33:43 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
the issue of "superficial voting" is kind of self-fulfilling, that when we see the same obvious solutions to the same challenges rising to the top over and over again we get less motivated to look any more deeply into the images, because "what difference will it make?" |
None at all, DPC is DPC, no matter who the onus is on. I have learned not to care, either way. In some ways it is sad though. |
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10/24/2012 03:55:33 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by vawendy:
However, I think we hope that the viewers at DPC are more discerning, more interested, more intelligent. |
Why?
Originally posted by vawendy:
However, many are here just for the cheap thrills. The 30 second quickies. (I can't believe I just said that... :) |
And? Does it make their assessment of an entry any less valid? |
What i read there is: I m here because i think most people here are really interested specifically in photography. A good portion of the crowd here will notice things a "generaL" viewer might not. The average participant's appreciation for photographic works is likely higher. I don't mind the people who're looking for a quickie view and vote, but i do appreciate people who really try to "see" what i m doing as well. I think you'll definitely find a bigger crowd here than say, any other random location ( use the definition of random that does not place me in an art class) |
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10/24/2012 03:57:05 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
I sometimes hear from the younger people that they want to see something new and creative. If it's been done before, they are not interested. As one grows older, one learns there is really nothing new under the sun. There's nothing wrong with photographing a subject time and time again... until one gets it perfectly done right. |
And that's a valid point Richard, but you can't expect the viewer/voter to want to travel that path with you. At a certain point they may become complacent or apathetic in regards of your journey towards perfection. |
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