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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Announcements >> 'Banana II' Challenge Results Recalculated
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09/27/2012 09:18:41 AM · #1
The results of the 'Banana II' challenge have been recalculated, due to the disqualification of the former blue ribbon winner for removing major elements of the image. Congrats to our new ribbon winners!
09/27/2012 10:09:44 AM · #2
Dumb.
09/27/2012 10:10:11 AM · #3
Hmmm... As usual, as everyone I'm confused with the rules here. This is my RAW ver ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/85000-89999/89220/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1035142.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/85000-89999/89220/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1035142.jpg', '/') + 1) . '.

I've seen ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1297/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_919839.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1297/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_919839.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' & ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1413/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_960115.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1413/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_960115.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' and few other entries got passed thru after cloning out the thread or whatever.

My question here is whats the thread/stick size should be (or allowed to remove)? If I know the answer will be useful in upcoming submissions.
09/27/2012 10:16:10 AM · #4
Originally posted by mqnaufal:

Hmmm... As usual, as everyone I'm confused with the rules here. This is my RAW ver ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/85000-89999/89220/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1035142.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/85000-89999/89220/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1035142.jpg', '/') + 1) . '.

I've seen ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1297/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_919839.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1297/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_919839.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' & ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1413/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_960115.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1413/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_960115.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' and few other entries got passed thru after cloning out the thread or whatever.

My question here is whats the thread/stick size should be (or allowed to remove)? If I know the answer will be useful in upcoming submissions.


Wow, kudos to you for taking this so well.

I think that you ask a very good question - I suppose the answer is the usual: Would it change a typical viewer's description of the scene...

09/27/2012 10:18:55 AM · #5
Needs to be reinstated, this is ridiculous.
09/27/2012 10:19:15 AM · #6
Like I said in my comment I though this would get dq'd theres a difference to a big stick close up and a few threads in a wide shot.

I had a shot of a model Lancaster bomber swimming over the damb the real dam buster practised on and I cloned out the clear plastic rod but got pre challenge advice that it would likely be dq so didn't enter it in that challenge

Keep trying though :)
09/27/2012 10:21:01 AM · #7
Having not seen Gyaban's originals, I'd have to say his strings were probably not very noticeable. Often times when someone uses thread or fishing line the average viewer doesn't even notice. Even the most inexperienced viewer with your photo would say, "That's a dude holding a banana on a stick."

I think that's where the difference lies.
09/27/2012 10:26:30 AM · #8
Sorry to hear about your disqualification (apart from the fact I had an upgrade to 10th position).

I did consider doing a similar picture as I had previously done one in an Expert Editing challenge but thought that the skewer I use would not be allowed as it
definitely noticeable.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1521/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_996748.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1521/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_996748.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

So I think on this occasion, the SC were right and if they had allowed it then it would open the flood gate to all sorts of props that need to be cloned out.

Damn annoying to think you had your first ribbon and then to lose it. I am sure you will bounce back and get another.

09/27/2012 10:27:05 AM · #9
Originally posted by Cory:

I think that you ask a very good question - I suppose the answer is the usual: Would it change a typical viewer's description of the scene...

The only other possibly helpful guideline is whether or not the removed object is prominent/obvious in the thumbnail version. As you can see from the resized original, the stick is pretty obvious even at that small size.
09/27/2012 10:28:17 AM · #10
Hmm now the question is - will the other sliced banana photo be disqualified or is it safe as it was not in the top 3?
09/27/2012 10:32:17 AM · #11
Originally posted by aliqui:

Having not seen Gyaban's originals, I'd have to say his strings were probably not very noticeable. Often times when someone uses thread or fishing line the average viewer doesn't even notice. Even the most inexperienced viewer with your photo would say, "That's a dude holding a banana on a stick."

I think that's where the difference lies.


+1

I've used clear thread before (kind of the equivalent of fish line), and it's barely noticeable, and not at all noticeable in the thumbnail. ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Bear_music once told me that if you can't really see it in the thumbnail, it's probably safe to clone it out. Not the site rules, but a Bear rule that's worked for me. :)

Even in the thumbnail of your photo, it's a banana on a stick -- a completely different description than I'd give the finished version.

The cloning rules state: "clone out incidental power lines, twigs, dust specks, stray hairs, and similar minor imperfections within any capture used." Luckily for us it's a bit broader than that, but it's still more incidentals. The reflection off of a clear thread is more of a minor element. The stick is a big chunk of the photograph.

(ahhh... the general snuck in before I finished typing... :)

Message edited by author 2012-09-27 10:33:20.
09/27/2012 10:47:56 AM · #12
Originally posted by paulsteven:

Hmm now the question is - will the other sliced banana photo be disqualified or is it safe as it was not in the top 3?


I remember when voting that it had a message saying "This photo has been validated." They must have used a different technique.
09/27/2012 10:49:24 AM · #13
Well, no problem. This is a great place to be. Even I use to share info about this site among my photography friends in fb & G+. I am a proud member of DPC. :)

I am just confused here with the size of the thread. That's it. ;) Hereafter as someone said I'll take advance editing as Basic editing and participate in the future.

Hoping to get a ribbon soon.

Message edited by author 2012-09-27 10:57:28.
09/27/2012 10:52:15 AM · #14
Originally posted by giantmike:

Originally posted by paulsteven:

Hmm now the question is - will the other sliced banana photo be disqualified or is it safe as it was not in the top 3?


I remember when voting that it had a message saying "This photo has been validated." They must have used a different technique.


Ah great - be interested to know the technique:)
09/27/2012 10:52:26 AM · #15
That's the spirit! Remember also that, even though it was a technical violation of admittedly arbitrary rules, people still thought it was a great image; nothing can take that away.
09/27/2012 11:19:43 AM · #16
Originally posted by giantmike:

Originally posted by paulsteven:

Hmm now the question is - will the other sliced banana photo be disqualified or is it safe as it was not in the top 3?


I remember when voting that it had a message saying "This photo has been validated." They must have used a different technique.


You're referring to my picture which is now in 4th place.
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1634/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1033714.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1634/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1033714.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
I used toothpicks stuck in a piece of mountboard. They are behind the banana segments. If the banana wasn't there you'd see the toothpicks pointing directly at you. So you couldn't see them even in my unedited picture. I had nothing to clone out except for a few specks of dust.

The key to getting this shot was to take time with:

1) the spacing of the segments - I traced the outline of the banana first and cut out some segments in paper so I could gauge where to place the toothpicks on the mountboard
2) the positioning of the toothpicks in the mountboard.
3) the positioning of the lighting so that there were virtually no shadows cast by the toothpicks.

All this before I even got my camera out.
Then I took some test shots with the banana unpeeled to test the exposure and lighting.

The very last thing I did was peel and cut the banana.
09/27/2012 11:21:15 AM · #17
it obvious that the stick was placed there to be cloned out, just like wires or string or whatever. the prominence of such objects, when its clear their intent, should not be the baseline for validation, either allow us to do this or not.

09/27/2012 11:30:26 AM · #18
Originally posted by DistantColours:

Originally posted by giantmike:

Originally posted by paulsteven:

Hmm now the question is - will the other sliced banana photo be disqualified or is it safe as it was not in the top 3?


I remember when voting that it had a message saying "This photo has been validated." They must have used a different technique.


You're referring to my picture which is now in 4th place.
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1634/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1033714.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1634/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1033714.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
I used toothpicks stuck in a piece of mountboard. They are behind the banana segments. If the banana wasn't there you'd see the toothpicks pointing directly at you. So you couldn't see them even in my unedited picture. I had nothing to clone out except for a few specks of dust.

The key to getting this shot was to take time with:

1) the spacing of the segments - I traced the outline of the banana first and cut out some segments in paper so I could gauge where to place the toothpicks on the mountboard
2) the positioning of the toothpicks in the mountboard.
3) the positioning of the lighting so that there were virtually no shadows cast by the toothpicks.

All this before I even got my camera out.
Then I took some test shots with the banana unpeeled to test the exposure and lighting.

The very last thing I did was peel and cut the banana.


Thank you for sharing your technique. I thought it was something like this. I did think about doing something similar with a cork board and lots of thin metal rods but didn't have the time, the resources or the patience:)

Great shot!
09/27/2012 11:44:09 AM · #19
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Cory:

I think that you ask a very good question - I suppose the answer is the usual: Would it change a typical viewer's description of the scene...

The only other possibly helpful guideline is whether or not the removed object is prominent/obvious in the thumbnail version. As you can see from the resized original, the stick is pretty obvious even at that small size.


I think that is a very good guideline ..... maybe that could be added to the ruleset?
09/27/2012 11:50:26 AM · #20
they should have just made it a basic editing challenge.

disqualifying someone for not using a "thin" enough material as a support prop seems stupid.
09/27/2012 11:54:46 AM · #21
Originally posted by mike_311:

they should have just made it a basic editing challenge.

disqualifying someone for not using a "thin" enough material as a support prop seems stupid.


It seems reasonable to me. If we allow that heavy a rod to be cloned out, we're getting into territory like "it's OK to leave the light stands in the picture, I can clone 'em out later!" and so forth. Remember, the whole rule set's arbitrary anyway. It's theoretically designed to encourage a reasonable level of "get it right in-camera".
09/27/2012 12:00:43 PM · #22
Originally posted by mike_311:

they should have just made it a basic editing challenge.

disqualifying someone for not using a "thin" enough material as a support prop seems stupid.


Using a thread is trying to get the image right from the camera.

I used thread on this one to bend the flower and hang the petal. It was basic editing. If you look carefully, you can actually see the thread (on some screens). I would have cloned that out in advanced editing. But many times that's the level of cloning that's done -- not things anywhere near the size of a stick.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1404/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_956918.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1404/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_956918.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

They're trying to keep it a photography site, not a photoshop site. I could do thread shots in a darkroom and get rid of the thread. You really couldn't do that with the stick.

Edited to add: gack -- this time bear beat me. I really need to type faster!

Message edited by author 2012-09-27 12:02:32.
09/27/2012 12:01:15 PM · #23
yeah i get that, but in this case its clear the rod was a prop. would tooth picks have been ok? how how thin rigid wire? the point is, either allow us to clone out items used as props or not. distinguishing their prominence in the image inst a very good guideline.

otherwise we need to guess whether its going to be validated or not.
09/27/2012 12:05:44 PM · #24
Originally posted by vawendy:

They're trying to keep it a photography site, not a photoshop site.
Had me confused for a second. Apparently you've never seen the winners to the expert editing challenges.
09/27/2012 12:07:32 PM · #25
Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by vawendy:

They're trying to keep it a photography site, not a photoshop site.
Had me confused for a second. Apparently you've never seen the winners to the expert editing challenges.


If you look at the percentage of expert editing challenges, it's definitely a photography site. :)
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