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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Suggestions >> open up expert to images outside date range
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09/18/2012 02:25:19 PM · #1
one reason i dont participate in expert challenges that much any longer is that they take too long to create an entry, add that to the fact that we have to take every image we need within the challenge dates. that could involve many locales or a few days to get it right as opposed to shooting one scene at one location for every other challenge.

i'd like to see the rules for expert opened so that we may use images that we took as noon prominent parts of our entry, not just for use as textures, sort of our own personal stock collection.

prominent subjects will still be subject to be taken within the challenge date still apply.
09/18/2012 02:28:28 PM · #2
It's a shame that Expert is a photoshop slugfest of photo merging... I'd prefer a change towards 'no more than 3 photos merged'. Not that it will ever happen, but that's my hope :)
09/18/2012 02:29:55 PM · #3
I'm pretty sure we may have done this for specific challenges (using a "special rule" exception) -- maybe you could suggest some topics which would really benefit significantly from this treatment.

One potential problem is, if you require that some "main" part of the image be shot within the challenge dates, you open it up to subjective (and likely disputed) decisions about whether that requirement has been met. It's simpler if you just run the occasional challenge with no date restrictions at all.
09/18/2012 02:36:01 PM · #4
Originally posted by pederlol:

It's a shame that Expert is a photoshop slugfest of photo merging... I'd prefer a change towards 'no more than 3 photos merged'. Not that it will ever happen, but that's my hope :)


not a bad idea, i'd be for it.
09/18/2012 02:38:38 PM · #5
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I'm pretty sure we may have done this for specific challenges (using a "special rule" exception) -- maybe you could suggest some topics which would really benefit significantly from this treatment.

One potential problem is, if you require that some "main" part of the image be shot within the challenge dates, you open it up to subjective (and likely disputed) decisions about whether that requirement has been met. It's simpler if you just run the occasional challenge with no date restrictions at all.


look no further than the current Zodiac, challenge, lots of us have photos that we could use to accent our images.
09/18/2012 02:42:52 PM · #6
Originally posted by pederlol:

It's a shame that Expert is a photoshop slugfest of photo merging... I'd prefer a change towards 'no more than 3 photos merged'. Not that it will ever happen, but that's my hope :)


maybe if more people enforced this:

You are encouraged to keep your entries photographic in nature, and voters are encouraged to rate entries accordingly.
09/18/2012 02:46:59 PM · #7
Originally posted by GeneralE:

One potential problem is, if you require that some "main" part of the image be shot within the challenge dates, you open it up to subjective (and likely disputed) decisions about whether that requirement has been met. It's simpler if you just run the occasional challenge with no date restrictions at all.


+1

That's the point. Each time there's an expert challenge I'd like to use some old and/or stock images but changing the rules is too risky. I can see many DQ's :)
09/18/2012 02:53:37 PM · #8
Originally posted by mike_311:

maybe if more people enforced this:

You are encouraged to keep your entries photographic in nature, and voters are encouraged to rate entries accordingly.

Exactly.
Look, I'll be the catalyst as usual, but in most expert editing challenges I'm the answer when people ask "How could anyone give this a vote of 1 or 2?" Some of the entries are not photographs in the end. I don't care how arduous the task was to complete and the proficiency of PS skills used, if what I'm looking at isn't a photograph (my opinion), I rank it as such.

I'm definitely with ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' pederlol on this one.

Message edited by author 2012-09-18 14:53:59.
09/18/2012 02:57:12 PM · #9
Why not just allow more time to complete Expert challenges for those who want to partake? Maybe two weeks instead of one would make it easier for more people to get the shooting done as well as the often intensive post processing completed?
09/18/2012 05:54:41 PM · #10
Originally posted by Venser:

. . . in most expert editing challenges I'm the answer when people ask "How could anyone give this a vote of 1 or 2?" Some of the entries are not photographs in the end. I don't care how arduous the task was to complete and the proficiency of PS skills used, if what I'm looking at isn't a photograph (my opinion), I rank it as such. . . .


I respect your right to this opinion. However, expert is but one of four rule sets. Why not "allow" those who enjoy it (I'm one who rarely enters expert challenges but thoroughly enjoys voting and viewing the results of them, including reading the "how I did it" descriptions) to participate in peace. You apparently feel obligated to vote in these challenges just so you can punish those who push the rule set (said in admiration) to its limits. Why don't you just abstain from voting those challenges?
09/18/2012 06:00:52 PM · #11
Originally posted by nam:

Originally posted by Venser:

. . . in most expert editing challenges I'm the answer when people ask "How could anyone give this a vote of 1 or 2?" Some of the entries are not photographs in the end. I don't care how arduous the task was to complete and the proficiency of PS skills used, if what I'm looking at isn't a photograph (my opinion), I rank it as such. . . .


I respect your right to this opinion. However, expert is but one of four rule sets. Why not "allow" those who enjoy it (I'm one who rarely enters expert challenges but thoroughly enjoys voting and viewing the results of them, including reading the "how I did it" descriptions) to participate in peace. You apparently feel obligated to vote in these challenges just so you can punish those who push the rule set (said in admiration) to its limits. Why don't you just abstain from voting those challenges?

Not to stir that pot again, but Venser has a valid point and legitimate grounds - there is a rule that states "You are encouraged to keep your entries photographic in nature, and voters are encouraged to rate entries accordingly." so maybe that rule should be removed or we should be chastising those who vote 8-10 on what is clearly not "photographic in nature".
09/18/2012 06:18:05 PM · #12
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

. . . there is a rule that states "You are encouraged to keep your entries photographic in nature, and voters are encouraged to rate entries accordingly." so maybe that rule should be removed or we should be chastising those who vote 8-10 on what is clearly not "photographic in nature".


Thanks, Art. You're right. Maybe this "rule" should be removed. Most of the images I am thinking of have been created from photographs. I guess it boils down to one's definition of "photographic".
09/18/2012 06:28:48 PM · #13
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care. "
Jimmy Buffett

What drives good photographers from this site is a trend towards cartoon presentations which are not photographic in nature. I have several good friends who are painters. They paint. I photograph. It's two different worlds.
09/18/2012 07:50:20 PM · #14
Originally posted by nam:

You apparently feel obligated to vote in these challenges just so you can punish those who push the rule set (said in admiration) to its limits.

No, I vote in every challenge to reward the images I thoroughly enjoy. Unfortunately in expert challenges there are entries which I don't deem as photographic in nature, therefore score accordingly. I understand where you're coming from in that they are created from photographs, but a log home isn't a tree at the end of the day.

Originally posted by nam:

Why don't you just abstain from voting those challenges?

I could, but I'm a paying member. One of the privileges is that I can vote in challenges. I'm not going to abstain because of a difference of opinion over what is or isn't a photograph.
09/18/2012 11:14:28 PM · #15
Originally posted by nam:

I guess it boils down to one's definition of "photographic".

I would guess that there is no photograph or technique submitted to a challenge here which has not been previously accomplished with pre-digital photographic techniques and products. Image manipulation has been going on for about as long as there has been photography.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1398/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_954634.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1398/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_954634.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

That said, I try to make my images look as though they could be a photo of a "real" scene, and you all should feel free to vote for what you like (or don't) as you see fit, as long as you vote applying consistent criteria.
09/18/2012 11:25:40 PM · #16
It's funny how a lot of people always complain of cartoonish images and never complain of completely unrealistic and badly edited HDRs - this site is full of them...

Message edited by author 2012-09-18 23:26:21.
09/18/2012 11:29:56 PM · #17
Originally posted by Alexkc:

It's funny how a lot of people ... never complain of completely unrealistic and badly edited HDRs - this site is full of them...

Plenty of people complain about those ... but I don't know if they're the same people who complain about "fantasy art" or not.
09/19/2012 07:34:42 AM · #18
I have no problem complaining over the vomit of HDR colors that exists in every challenge - however the sheer amout of them, makes my task seem insurmountable.

As members we are all subject to personal preference. I like portraits with a twist, photographs that make me think and question - I hate flowers, kids, puppies and sunsets - hence I vote like that.

It's not that I want to "define" what a "true" photograph really is, I just generally don't like the endless merging of what could be stock photos in the expert challenge.

You might disagree completely, but that's just my opinion.

Message edited by author 2012-09-19 07:36:04.
09/19/2012 08:46:59 AM · #19
Originally posted by Brent_S:

Why not just allow more time to complete Expert challenges for those who want to partake? Maybe two weeks instead of one would make it easier for more people to get the shooting done as well as the often intensive post processing completed?


+1 Definitely. I have to pass on Zodiac because the model isn't available on such short notice...and I also have to shoot the bg, then do the post work, which is still an area where I really need to concentrate, I can't just whip through it. I don't know how Christophe manages to pull it off within a week.
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