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08/27/2012 08:43:58 PM · #51 |
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Message edited by author 2012-08-27 22:00:25. |
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08/27/2012 09:25:35 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
everyone vote 1 on Neat's images from now on so she never leaves.
the great Oz has spoken. |
the above comment made me laugh the most.
 MinsoPhotoand you know what you are dead right, that's how I do feel lately, I just broke another goal of mine, I just received 5 photos in a row score over 6, but some in the low 6's, and they did bother me a bit. I should be more grateful true, I should!
And markwileylike I said at the beginning of my post it's not the obsession with a ribbon now b/c I've achieved that goal, it's the 7 factor. I then will feel like I've achieved what I set out to do.
Anyway, there's better things in my life to be concerned about.
I will sit out the next three challenges, and enter the F/S, and play it from there.
Everyone has input some great points, which I will ponder on for the next few weeks.
See you round!
Message edited by author 2012-08-27 21:26:44. |
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08/27/2012 10:16:45 PM · #53 |
You'll never be satisfied.
It just doesn't happen.
If you get a 7, then you wonder if it's a fluke, or if you can do it again.
The reason we pay attention to scores is because we want to improve, and that's one way (that's actually measurable) to tell if we're improving. But no matter how good we get, we tend to think that we can still get better and so we keep pushing ourselves.
There's nothing wrong with that. It just can get demoralizing at times.
I found that the way to get 7s was to specialize. With me it was birds and squirrels and a bit of other nature. I kept doing it over, and over, and over again. And I tried to improve each time. When I would be trying getting a shot of a seagull, I went in with a specific shot in mind, and I wouldn't shoot 20 or 30 shots, I would shoot 200-300 shots to get the right wing angles. After awhile I would routinely fill up 8 GB cards. Because what I used to think was a good shot, I'd already done before, so I had to try for something better. For the 8.x shot, I took over 1400 shots over two days and only stopped because my battery ran out and I forgot to bring a charger. There were many shots that I liked quite a bit that day, but there were only 2 or 3 that I felt were awesome. I'm finding myself hoping that there's never another bird challenge, because I couldn't possibly top my last one. :)
But look at the current front page -- tanguera has a 7 with a portrait -- her strength is her portraiture. Samantha_t is great with portraits and fantasy.
I see you having a style more than a subject, and your style is wonderful, and your scores have been moving up. You're keeping your sense of self, but convincing others that it's interesting. That's quite a feat. Personally, I'd rather have a style than a subject, but that's something I haven't learned yet. Someday...
I think I've babbled on too long and said absolutely nothing, so it's time to take nyquil and go to sleep. Maybe if I can breathe through my nose again someday I'll make more sense. :)
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08/27/2012 10:31:09 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
The reason we pay attention to scores is because we want to improve, and that's one way (that's actually measurable) to tell if we're improving. But no matter how good we get, we tend to think that we can still get better and so we keep pushing ourselves. |
Completely disagree.
The scores here are meaningless. The only numbers I look at are my month over month sales, they are the only ones which matter. If the scores and ribbons could translate into real dollars than they might mean something.
If your average is improving all it means is you're becoming more appeasing to the average voter, nothing more, nothing less. |
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08/27/2012 10:33:23 PM · #55 |
Out of 1061 entries I have exactly nine scores over 6 (and one 5.99) ... I figure it is a fixed result that only three of the entries will get ribbons, the rest will receive an evaluation and hopefully feedback.
The site was founded as a learning site, the contests were used to provide a structure or format. I long ago decided just to submit whatever I thought was interesting and see what response it got -- given the variety of styles and talents here and the inherent faults and biases of the voting system, I don't think the score is as important as making the attempt. I always thought the "challenge" part was coming up with "something" to fill the assignment, just like any other educational situation (class, workshop, etc.). It is simply unrealistic to expect every photo to be a winner, and given that it's not, the exact placement or score doesn't really matter.
Also remember, that the scores vary significantly with the challenge topic and voter pool. If you really want to gauge your "success" here, I suggest using ranking or percentile finish instead of the absolute score. |
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08/27/2012 10:43:53 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by vawendy:
The reason we pay attention to scores is because we want to improve, and that's one way (that's actually measurable) to tell if we're improving. But no matter how good we get, we tend to think that we can still get better and so we keep pushing ourselves. |
Completely disagree.
The scores here are meaningless. The only numbers I look at are my month over month sales, they are the only ones which matter. If the scores and ribbons could translate into real dollars than they might mean something.
If your average is improving all it means is you're becoming more appeasing to the average voter, nothing more, nothing less. |
If your goal is to get a 7, then the numbers mean something to you. Whether anyone else thinks they have meaning is, in fact, meaningless. They have meaning to you.
Message edited by author 2012-08-27 22:44:25.
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08/27/2012 11:10:11 PM · #57 |
| I think it would be frustrating to submit to every challenge or even most of the challenges posted hoping for a great score. I only submit to challenges in which I read the rules and then an idea pops into my head immediately. Those are, in my opinion, the best creative ideas! Also, trying really hard to create something or shooting just to enter will frustrate me when I have a low score, but that score represents the lack of thought and care that was put into that photo. Its clear to me that 90% of the winning photos had a lot of thought and care put into them. My only ribboning photo, which was later DQ'd, was by far my most thought out, time consuming, and one of my favorite techniques (light painting). SO it shows when I just concentrate and put all my energy into one that I care about instead of multiple, some of which I dont care about. Maybe this isnt your problem but I see youve entered UBER amounts of challenges so maybe my opinion will help :) |
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08/27/2012 11:51:57 PM · #58 |
Wendy
You have made some valuable points and I have thought about that as well, what if I achieve a 7, then what, a 7.2, 7.30 and so on, I think this has shown me I should be grateful for what I've achieved.
Also becoming an expert in a subject, like you are on bird's, well I love childrens photography , but my son is getting very hard to persuade these days, and teens well they are not at all that interested. I love street photography but even that is a bit suss, on most days, it was hard enough shooting for the current challenge, without anyone noticing.
I will come up with something soon, I know it.
Also jusjoshing You know your right as well, I have entered a load of challenges, just for the sake of it, and that's why I'm going to be a lot more choosey from now on, and just enter the best instead of mediocre, so like I said I will skip the next 3 b/c they don't really excite me too much!
Message edited by author 2012-08-28 00:30:51. |
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08/28/2012 12:03:54 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Also remember, that the scores vary significantly with the challenge topic and voter pool. If you really want to gauge your "success" here, I suggest using ranking or percentile finish instead of the absolute score. |
I've mentioned this many times before but people really love their absolute scores. The important numbers should be your average relative to the overall average and the standard deviation. |
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08/28/2012 12:08:49 AM · #60 |
What I have done is simple. I have started entering challenges with my manual focus lenses and just trying to put an image at the top of that lens page, rather then worrying about where I end up in the whole scheme of things. Set a goal for yourself with each lens, utilize it to enter challenges until you reach your goal. Then move on to the next lens. Don't make it about the absolute final score on the challenge. But a challenge within the challenge of rocking just that lens. Sometimes this place gets a bit stuffy and you have to find your own way to shake it up to make it interesting again. I left and came back with just the intent of entering challenges with my Manual Focus stuff.
Matt |
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08/28/2012 12:35:35 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by MattO:
What I have done is simple. I have started entering challenges with my manual focus lenses and just trying to put an image at the top of that lens page, rather then worrying about where I end up in the whole scheme of things. Set a goal for yourself with each lens, utilize it to enter challenges until you reach your goal. Then move on to the next lens. Don't make it about the absolute final score on the challenge. But a challenge within the challenge of rocking just that lens. Sometimes this place gets a bit stuffy and you have to find your own way to shake it up to make it interesting again. I left and came back with just the intent of entering challenges with my Manual Focus stuff.
Matt |
Agreed. I do sorta the same thing. I wanted to get a prairie shot above a 6 because it's a landscape most people kinda hate, and I finally succeeded in the challenge topic I suggested. Now I could try and do a top 10 for the same. I also like trying to light things you wouldn't normally light, like trees and such. It really changes the topic when you limit yourself like that, and it keeps things fresh and keeps you learning, as well. |
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08/28/2012 12:36:43 AM · #62 |
| Anita, a 7+ is rarely verineat. ;) |
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08/28/2012 12:41:58 AM · #63 |
I now have 3 images in the top 6 of this lens And while it didn't take long, I put the top image up on this one. I'll grab one of my other lenses and start entering it next. Until the owner of this place actually puts some effort into the place, instead of just the money into his pocket, you have to find your own way not to walk away.
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Originally posted by MattO:
What I have done is simple. I have started entering challenges with my manual focus lenses and just trying to put an image at the top of that lens page, rather then worrying about where I end up in the whole scheme of things. Set a goal for yourself with each lens, utilize it to enter challenges until you reach your goal. Then move on to the next lens. Don't make it about the absolute final score on the challenge. But a challenge within the challenge of rocking just that lens. Sometimes this place gets a bit stuffy and you have to find your own way to shake it up to make it interesting again. I left and came back with just the intent of entering challenges with my Manual Focus stuff.
Matt |
Agreed. I do sorta the same thing. I wanted to get a prairie shot above a 6 because it's a landscape most people kinda hate, and I finally succeeded in the challenge topic I suggested. Now I could try and do a top 10 for the same. I also like trying to light things you wouldn't normally light, like trees and such. It really changes the topic when you limit yourself like that, and it keeps things fresh and keeps you learning, as well. |
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08/28/2012 02:09:10 AM · #64 |
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Message edited by author 2012-08-28 02:10:07. |
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08/28/2012 02:10:33 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Anita, a 7+ is rarely verineat. ;) |
I know how Veritrue ;) |
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08/28/2012 02:57:41 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by Neat:
Wendy
You have made some valuable points and I have thought about that as well, what if I achieve a 7, then what, a 7.2, 7.30 and so on, I think this has shown me I should be grateful for what I've achieved.
Also becoming an expert in a subject, like you are on bird's, well I love childrens photography , but my son is getting very hard to persuade these days, and teens well they are not at all that interested. I love street photography but even that is a bit suss, on most days, it was hard enough shooting for the current challenge, without anyone noticing.
I will come up with something soon, I know it.
Also jusjoshing You know your right as well, I have entered a load of challenges, just for the sake of it, and that's why I'm going to be a lot more choosey from now on, and just enter the best instead of mediocre, so like I said I will skip the next 3 b/c they don't really excite me too much! |
I have skipped the 3 currently in voting and will most likely skip the next 3 as I havent really had an easy idea come striaght to mind. Maybe ill play aound in photoshop and do the "blue moon" challenge, but thats only if I have free time to practice some expert editing...no other reason than that! Also, the next challenge posted will be the first with my new 5d mark 2 that will be arriving friday so Im trying to stay photo abstinent from a few challenges ;)
Message edited by author 2012-08-28 02:59:14. |
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08/28/2012 05:46:50 AM · #67 |
| Not a bad idea to skip a few challenges. I have taken a few breaks from here and usually come back rejuvenated. |
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08/28/2012 06:18:41 AM · #68 |
I used to have a theory that people who went into politics did so because of some sort of idealistic wish to improve that which politics should be able to improve. I've largely abandoned that idea, but the way the theory continued was to say that the politician gradually has his/her ideals worn down by the grind and reality of whatever and by the time they've got anywhere near serious office positions they are the same as all the rest.
So if you want to get a 7, stop being whoever you are and produce the stuff that is produced by people you are not.
What do I know? I got a couple of sixes. Also the above may be just a tad pejorative toward some of the high rollers who are just good at what they do.
Even so. |
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08/28/2012 10:10:07 AM · #69 |
| what's a 7? are we sure they actually exist? |
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08/28/2012 10:15:30 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
what's a 7? are we sure they actually exist? |
You have one in this score:
Look closely: see the second digit? That's a 7... |
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08/28/2012 10:34:58 AM · #71 |
For me... when I'm thinking of entering a challenge -- and of course everyone wants their work to be recognized as 7-worthy -- I think about coming up with a photo that will completely grab and wow the viewer in one way or another in a split second! Of course, it has to be technically wonderful to accomplish that, but mainly, it has to stand out from all the rest in a single second as being a WOW photo. So, I'll shoot for challenges often, but when pulling them up to work on them, I realize, they are likely too similar to what everyone else will come up with, without any of them having that "WOW!" factor to set it apart from other similar ones. So what makes a 7+ score over one that people vote as high-average is just that immediate "Wow impact". Like someone else could have taken a picture of a beautiful girl sitting in front of a window and gotten a 5 of 6-something. But the second Tanguera's photo popped up on your screen, there it was.... beauty, lighting that made you gasp... and an expression on the model's face that made you feel there was a story there.
So I think that's it. Wow impact above all else. |
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08/28/2012 10:52:54 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by SandyP:
But the second Tanguera's photo popped up on your screen, there it was.... beauty, lighting that made you gasp... and an expression on the model's face that made you feel there was a story there. |
This is what makes getting high scores difficult, and somewhat meaningless. When I saw that photo, I didn't see anything of which you describe. It didn't even crack my top 50% in voting. The point being is it still won making the actual score irrelevant. |
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08/28/2012 11:23:08 AM · #73 |
Yeah... But Venser, your average vote cast is a 3.8, so I'm thinking you're probably not the norm in seeing the wow impact in photos.
Message edited by author 2012-08-28 11:24:48. |
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08/28/2012 11:40:48 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by SandyP:
Yeah... But Venser, your average vote cast is a 3.8, so I'm thinking you're probably not the norm in seeing the wow impact in photos. |
I like many of  tanguera's photos, but this one had no wow from me, either. Not a positive wow, anyway. |
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08/28/2012 11:43:41 AM · #75 |
Originally posted by SandyP:
Yeah... But Venser, your average vote cast is a 3.8, so I'm thinking you're probably not the norm in seeing the wow impact in photos. |
Whenever I am reminded of your voting average it makes me stop and think that our voting averages probably reflect a little bit on how each of us view life in general. If we went through our lives rating everything from a 1-10 score and only came up with a 3.8 average how sad would our lives be? Now I am not saying everyone with a lower scoring average is a glass half empty sort of person. But I have observed many of your comments lead me to believe you may look at everything and everyone around you and are giving them a 3.8 rating as well. |
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