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07/18/2012 11:47:09 AM · #26 |
Commenting is work. I try to keep my ratio to 2 comments for each received, just to force me to put in the effort.
I enjoy each comment I get so much, (good or bad) that I go back to my images to re-read them in the week of voting, without even bothering to check the score {not dwelling on my 5.1 average}.
Cory, you have just given me a lengthy one, and I've read it more than 7 times already. So thank you for giving it, and for each and every other commenter.
I suppose that it it inevitable that one develops a style of commenting, so it will serve us all well to go back and have a good look at the commenter-type we have become, to make sure that is how we want to be heard. |
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07/18/2012 02:29:40 PM · #27 |
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Perhaps more pertinent to the discussion, Benjamin Franklin, in Poor Richard's Almanack:
"Beauty, like supreme dominion
Is but supported by opinion"
Or earlier, David Hume's Essays, Moral and Political, 1742, include:
"Beauty in things exists merely in the mind which contemplates them."
In other words, the comments say more about the commenter than the photo. So watch what you say and be so judged.
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07/18/2012 02:41:20 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
While one can PM an individual to offer some feedback on the quality of their comments, such an action is extremely frowned upon by most members and the SC. The educational aspect of the commenting process is truncated. |
I don't think this is true -- we discourage "arguing" with the commentor, or asking for a vote change, but merely replying to a comment is fine. Besides sending a PM, perhaps a more effective approach is to reply to the comment directly -- remember that the comment threads work just like the forums, and you can easily quote/reply to a comment there, with the added benefit that others reading the comments can also learn from the exchange.
For example, if someone were to comment "too blurry" you might reply with something like "I intentionally used a very shallow depth of field because I wanted the viewer to just focus in on the eyelashes" -- this would be perfectly acceptable as either a posting/reply or in a PM. However, "You idiot, I made it that way on purpose" would be a less-than-acceptable response ...
And if someone sends you a "You idiot ..." PM for any comment, simply report it and trash it ...
BTW, I seem to remember you making a very nice comment on my Ansel Adams entry -- I really appreciated it coming from you, but I can't remember if I sent you a note ...
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Right or wrong, and whether I’m commenting on what I like or dislike, my motto is never to leave a comment written in such a way that I would be offended to receive myself. That would not be helpful:) |
I seem to rememeber that WIll Smith, when he was still rapping, at one point cleaned up his act, saying he didn't want to record anything he wouldn't want his grandmother to hear ...
Message edited by author 2012-07-18 14:45:13. |
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07/18/2012 02:46:50 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by tvsometime:
So watch what you say and be so judged. |
I must say, if you wish to reserve the right to be hurt and offended those who might say something negative about your submission, don't submit.
The reason we judge not knowing who's work is who's is to distance the maker from the image. There is a difference between judging a gallery wall covered with submissions, or a one on one portfolio review. Both have their place but trust me, in a one on one, you will hear a more nuanced and buffered critique. People are not going to be as honest about the flaws of the work in a face to face situation.
Outside the world of DPC, when you submit to a juried show some day, go listen to what people walking through the show say when they don't know you are there listening. They will often be superficial and rather brutal, and usually drive home the problem they have with your image in a way they never would if they felt the artist was listening and warning them "So watch what you say and be so judged".
I get enough "Nice Pic" or "These are pretty birds" over at other web sites, I submit here for the cold eyes of discerning strangers, who can find the flaws in my work that I missed. I need that information to make my images better. If they feel constrained by being judged, then we have lost an essential asset of the site.
Message edited by author 2012-07-18 14:49:51. |
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07/18/2012 02:52:46 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
I get enough "Nice Pic" or "These are pretty birds" over at other web sites, I submit here for the cold eyes of discerning strangers, who can find the flaws in my work that I missed. I need that information to make my images better. If they feel constrained by being judged, then we have lost an essential asset of the site. |
The same sentiments get mentioned when someone gets a low vote on their entry. Automatically it's a troll or whatever. I gather people don't sit back and reflect as to how or why someone could give their entry that particular. I see this no different from the commenting issue you brought up, it just happens in a different manner.
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07/18/2012 03:04:03 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Venser:
The same sentiments get mentioned when someone gets a low vote on their entry. |
But the reason I value a harsh specific comment over a 2 vote is it leaves me with the "why". I can choose to ignore their opinion, or embrace it, and many of them are just plain wrong, but at least I know a bit of the logic of that 2 vote. It helps. |
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07/18/2012 03:17:39 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Venser:
The same sentiments get mentioned when someone gets a low vote on their entry. |
But the reason I value a harsh specific comment over a 2 vote is it leaves me with the "why". I can choose to ignore their opinion, or embrace it, and many of them are just plain wrong, but at least I know a bit of the logic of that 2 vote. It helps. |
Fair enough.
The only part I'm having difficulty with is how an opinion can be wrong on an subjective topic. If someone thinks an entry is DNMC for example, you may not agree, and the majority could side with you, but as long as they can articulate a somewhat intelligent response, you have to at least respect their decision. |
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07/18/2012 03:33:50 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Venser:
The only part I'm having difficulty with is how an opinion can be wrong on an subjective topic. |
If you get 12 comments about how the exposure is perfect, and 1 that says it is too dark, they are wrong.
If you set out to create a depressing and moody image, and they find it too depressing, they are wrong.
If they read the title of the challenge, but not the description, or failed to understand what something like "Grunge" or Environmental Portrait" means, they are wrong.
They may be right by their own lights, but if they missed what you were trying to do, they are not in a position to help you get there. |
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07/18/2012 03:55:51 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Venser:
The only part I'm having difficulty with is how an opinion can be wrong on an subjective topic. |
If you get 12 comments about how the exposure is perfect, and 1 that says it is too dark, they are wrong.
If you set out to create a depressing and moody image, and they find it too depressing, they are wrong.
If they read the title of the challenge, but not the description, or failed to understand what something like "Grunge" or Environmental Portrait" means, they are wrong.
They may be right by their own lights, but if they missed what you were trying to do, they are not in a position to help you get there. |
I don't agree.
In relation to your example about exposure, your just brought up confirmation bias. If we asked another 100 people and they all thought it was too dark, does that now make the original 12 wrong? No, it does not. Same about the depressing or moody image. Strength in numbers doesn't make opinions more or less valid.
edit - We can extrapolate your example to many other things, and they make no sense. Is so and so good looking? Do I look good in this sweater? On any topic which is completely subjective the number of opinions which coalesce with yours is irrelevant. The dissenting opinions are just as valid. They are not wrong.
Message edited by author 2012-07-18 16:03:44. |
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07/18/2012 04:03:50 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
If you get 12 comments about how the exposure is perfect, and 1 that says it is too dark, they are wrong. |
I don't agree.
In relation to your example about exposure, your just brought up confirmation bias. If we asked another 100 people and they all thought it was too dark, does that now make the original 12 wrong? No, it does not. Same about the depressing or moody image. Strength in numbers doesn't make opinions more or less valid. |
You can disagree all you want, but in this specific example, Brennan's more likely to be correct. We're not dealing with "confirmation bias"; we're dealing, probably, with an individual who does not have a properly-calibrated monitor.
Of course, that's grossly generalized. If Brennan created a very dark, moody image and one-of-10 commenters said it was "too dark", they wouldn't be "wrong", they'd just be expressing a different aesthetic.
Unless, of course, they didn't have properly-calibrated monitors... :-)
It's hopeless, really. All opinions are valid. We can leave it at that. Even if they're wrong :-)
R. |
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07/18/2012 04:15:22 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It's hopeless, really. All opinions are valid. We can leave it at that. Even if they're wrong :-)
R. |
Yes, quite exactly right. Comments are feedback, take it, use it, value it, and don't take it personally.
ETA: Even the "wrong" comments help you to understand the varieties of "wrong" out there, and you can possibly use that to your advantage as well.
Message edited by author 2012-07-18 16:16:32. |
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07/18/2012 04:34:49 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Venser:
The same sentiments get mentioned when someone gets a low vote on their entry. |
But the reason I value a harsh specific comment over a 2 vote is it leaves me with the "why". I can choose to ignore their opinion, or embrace it, and many of them are just plain wrong, but at least I know a bit of the logic of that 2 vote. It helps. |
Fair enough.
The only part I'm having difficulty with is how an opinion can be wrong on an subjective topic. If someone thinks an entry is DNMC for example, you may not agree, and the majority could side with you, but as long as they can articulate a somewhat intelligent response, you have to at least respect their decision. |
Yup. But I have yet to have someone give me a 1 or a 2 and articulate a somewhat intelligent response. That's the whole point. The 1 or 2 doesn't necessarily mean an intelligent response. It could be the few people that are trying to rig the vote. If you have an intelligent reason for voting a 1 or 2, take the time to teach and comment.
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07/18/2012 05:51:39 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
I mark almost all comments on my images as "helpful". The truth is most comments at DPC are not constructive criticisms. I think there is a policy at DPC to encourage quantity of comments, regardless of quality. I read all comments and accept them as well-intentioned feedback. One must consider the source. There are a few highly respected individuals to whose comments I pay close attention. But, those really helpful comments are very rare. Conversely, there are some newbies (to photography and this site) who are told to make lots of comments in an attempt to improve their "eye". Frankly, some comments are made which are quite flawed and misguided and represent a misunderstanding of basic principles. And, I'm not being thin-skinned here. I do mark these comments as helpful, too, so I think it's a problem when the newbie gets a "helpful" rating on a comment which is from the twilight zone. The feedback loop is incomplete. While one can PM an individual to offer some feedback on the quality of their comments, such an action is extremely frowned upon by most members and the SC. The educational aspect of the commenting process is truncated.
Back a few years ago, some newer members engaged in robo-commenting in an attempt to rack up several or many 100% comment badges for their profile page. From some of those comments, I concluded that not everyone carefully reviews all challenge entries when participating in such an effort.
That said, I have tried to offer comments on all the images in a couple of recent challenges of special interest to me. (AA and Birds) I spent a lot of time doing this. It's not easy to do right. The feedback to me was generally good, but in a very few cases, my comments raised hackles and probably retaliation. I've decided that some people do not want constructive criticism. I will only offer comments now to a small percentage of images which I think I can offer helpful insight or constructive ideas for improvement. As always, if someone wants a more detailed critique on their image, I've almost always responded with a straight-from-the-shoulder opinion. |
While I also mark all comments helpful I do sometimes wish there were 2 responses to a comment:
1) "Thanks" - Thank you for taking the time to comment on my image it's much appreciated (generally used for those random comments like congrats on the ribbon or great shot etc".
2) "Helpful" - Thank you for taking the time to comment on my image it's much appreciated, further more thank you for giving some helpful and constructive criticism that will help with my endeavour to improve my photographic an post processing skills (could be used where a thoughtful constructive comment was given - would have more meaning to those who take the time to give decent thoughtful comments). |
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07/18/2012 08:59:15 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Of course, that's grossly generalized. If Brennan created a very dark, moody image and one-of-10 commenters said it was "too dark", they wouldn't be "wrong", they'd just be expressing a different aesthetic. |
Actually, I think if they said "too dark" they'd be making and expressing a value judgement; one which can have no real validity, since there's no agreed-upon standard for what constitutes the "proper" amount of darkness.
If they said "I think I'd like this more if it was lighter" they'd be expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic ... |
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07/18/2012 09:13:03 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Of course, that's grossly generalized. If Brennan created a very dark, moody image and one-of-10 commenters said it was "too dark", they wouldn't be "wrong", they'd just be expressing a different aesthetic. |
Actually, I think if they said "too dark" they'd be making and expressing a value judgement; one which can have no real validity, since there's no agreed-upon standard for what constitutes the "proper" amount of darkness.
If they said "I think I'd like this more if it was lighter" they'd be expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic ... |
And this is one thing we should avoid getting too touchy about IMO... If they say it bluntly, fine, it should be quite obvious that this is only that person's opinion, no matter what they say, or how they say it. Either way, they're simply expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic, rough wording doesn't change that fact, nor should it change the reception (although, inevitably it does...) |
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07/18/2012 09:31:33 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Of course, that's grossly generalized. If Brennan created a very dark, moody image and one-of-10 commenters said it was "too dark", they wouldn't be "wrong", they'd just be expressing a different aesthetic. |
Actually, I think if they said "too dark" they'd be making and expressing a value judgement; one which can have no real validity, since there's no agreed-upon standard for what constitutes the "proper" amount of darkness.
If they said "I think I'd like this more if it was lighter" they'd be expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic ... |
And this is one thing we should avoid getting too touchy about IMO... If they say it bluntly, fine, it should be quite obvious that this is only that person's opinion, no matter what they say, or how they say it. Either way, they're simply expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic, rough wording doesn't change that fact, nor should it change the reception (although, inevitably it does...) |
I started to make a long rambling reply, but deleted it. It's really not worth arguing the point that's been argued for years here already. I just want to point out one thing. Sometimes "not so nice" comments hurt for reasons completely different then what you are all arguing about. A few years ago I took a picture of my grandmother for a challenge. She died while the challenge was in voting. Someone had left a comment that just didn't sit right with me and after the challenge I asked them to remove it. They did. No problem. What everyone who comments need to remember is that even though it's a photography site, there are real, living breathing people behind those cameras and in those pictures. And sometimes, those comments hurt. |
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07/18/2012 09:43:06 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Of course, that's grossly generalized. If Brennan created a very dark, moody image and one-of-10 commenters said it was "too dark", they wouldn't be "wrong", they'd just be expressing a different aesthetic. |
Actually, I think if they said "too dark" they'd be making and expressing a value judgement; one which can have no real validity, since there's no agreed-upon standard for what constitutes the "proper" amount of darkness.
If they said "I think I'd like this more if it was lighter" they'd be expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic ... |
And this is one thing we should avoid getting too touchy about IMO... If they say it bluntly, fine, it should be quite obvious that this is only that person's opinion, no matter what they say, or how they say it. Either way, they're simply expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic, rough wording doesn't change that fact, nor should it change the reception (although, inevitably it does...) |
I started to make a long rambling reply, but deleted it. It's really not worth arguing the point that's been argued for years here already. I just want to point out one thing. Sometimes "not so nice" comments hurt for reasons completely different then what you are all arguing about. A few years ago I took a picture of my grandmother for a challenge. She died while the challenge was in voting. Someone had left a comment that just didn't sit right with me and after the challenge I asked them to remove it. They did. No problem. What everyone who comments need to remember is that even though it's a photography site, there are real, living breathing people behind those cameras and in those pictures. And sometimes, those comments hurt. |
Sure, absolutely! But, as I said in the OP:
Originally posted by Cory:
I strive to give an honest and open opinion that is not sugarcoated or watered down, hedging wastes time and usually ensures that the point being made is missed or at least glossed over to some degree, and I neither have the time to do this, nor the desire. Having said that, I do recognize that this may be your best attempt, I realize that you may be 12 years old, I realize that your cat may have died yesterday, but none of that matters in the context of voting and commenting - the images are what they are regardless of who created them. |
You of course, did have every right to ask them to remove the comment, I just hope you realized that there was (hopefully) nothing personal about it... Of course, if they commented too personally, that's where I suppose you certainly have all right to ask them to do so..
On the other hand, and please forgive me for saying so, but it may have been a bad idea to enter that photo in the first place... I've learned to never submit that which I love for voting in challenges here, for one reason or another, that just never goes particularly well from what I've seen.
*shrug* It's a complex issue, but the key is that you can't expect someone to not comment, and perhaps bluntly/rudely so, just because it's a photo or subject that you love dearly - it really doesn't change the rules. |
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07/18/2012 10:02:13 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Of course, that's grossly generalized. If Brennan created a very dark, moody image and one-of-10 commenters said it was "too dark", they wouldn't be "wrong", they'd just be expressing a different aesthetic. |
Actually, I think if they said "too dark" they'd be making and expressing a value judgement; one which can have no real validity, since there's no agreed-upon standard for what constitutes the "proper" amount of darkness.
If they said "I think I'd like this more if it was lighter" they'd be expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic ... |
And this is one thing we should avoid getting too touchy about IMO... If they say it bluntly, fine, it should be quite obvious that this is only that person's opinion, no matter what they say, or how they say it. Either way, they're simply expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic, rough wording doesn't change that fact, nor should it change the reception (although, inevitably it does...) |
I started to make a long rambling reply, but deleted it. It's really not worth arguing the point that's been argued for years here already. I just want to point out one thing. Sometimes "not so nice" comments hurt for reasons completely different then what you are all arguing about. A few years ago I took a picture of my grandmother for a challenge. She died while the challenge was in voting. Someone had left a comment that just didn't sit right with me and after the challenge I asked them to remove it. They did. No problem. What everyone who comments need to remember is that even though it's a photography site, there are real, living breathing people behind those cameras and in those pictures. And sometimes, those comments hurt. |
Sure, absolutely! But, as I said in the OP:
Originally posted by Cory:
I strive to give an honest and open opinion that is not sugarcoated or watered down, hedging wastes time and usually ensures that the point being made is missed or at least glossed over to some degree, and I neither have the time to do this, nor the desire. Having said that, I do recognize that this may be your best attempt, I realize that you may be 12 years old, I realize that your cat may have died yesterday, but none of that matters in the context of voting and commenting - the images are what they are regardless of who created them. |
You of course, did have every right to ask them to remove the comment, I just hope you realized that there was (hopefully) nothing personal about it... Of course, if they commented too personally, that's where I suppose you certainly have all right to ask them to do so..
On the other hand, and please forgive me for saying so, but it may have been a bad idea to enter that photo in the first place... I've learned to never submit that which I love for voting in challenges here, for one reason or another, that just never goes particularly well from what I've seen.
*shrug* It's a complex issue, but the key is that you can't expect someone to not comment, and perhaps bluntly/rudely so, just because it's a photo or subject that you love dearly - it really doesn't change the rules. |
I don't believe it was a bad idea at all. She was happy to pose, and I'm happy I have that picture. Some of us are not professionals, and don't aspire to be professionals. Therefore, the models that we have available to us are of those we love. Not everyone here is here to "become". Some of us are just here because it's a hobby we love and we enjoy sharing the shots that mean something to us with others. Otherwise, what's the point? |
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07/18/2012 10:12:01 PM · #44 |
When I comment I try to be constructive. I try to find something to like, in every image. I also mention where I think the image may fall short. I try always to be tactful and polite.
In the end, I do not try to tell anyone else how to comment, or how to vote. Your vote and your comment are yours, and represent you. If you fell the comment and vote you left represent you well, then I have no argument. If I feel my vote and my comment represent me well, then I'm probably not too terribly interested in being told how to do it.
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07/18/2012 10:12:54 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Of course, that's grossly generalized. If Brennan created a very dark, moody image and one-of-10 commenters said it was "too dark", they wouldn't be "wrong", they'd just be expressing a different aesthetic. |
Actually, I think if they said "too dark" they'd be making and expressing a value judgement; one which can have no real validity, since there's no agreed-upon standard for what constitutes the "proper" amount of darkness.
If they said "I think I'd like this more if it was lighter" they'd be expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic ... |
And this is one thing we should avoid getting too touchy about IMO... If they say it bluntly, fine, it should be quite obvious that this is only that person's opinion, no matter what they say, or how they say it. Either way, they're simply expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic, rough wording doesn't change that fact, nor should it change the reception (although, inevitably it does...) |
I started to make a long rambling reply, but deleted it. It's really not worth arguing the point that's been argued for years here already. I just want to point out one thing. Sometimes "not so nice" comments hurt for reasons completely different then what you are all arguing about. A few years ago I took a picture of my grandmother for a challenge. She died while the challenge was in voting. Someone had left a comment that just didn't sit right with me and after the challenge I asked them to remove it. They did. No problem. What everyone who comments need to remember is that even though it's a photography site, there are real, living breathing people behind those cameras and in those pictures. And sometimes, those comments hurt. |
Sure, absolutely! But, as I said in the OP:
Originally posted by Cory:
I strive to give an honest and open opinion that is not sugarcoated or watered down, hedging wastes time and usually ensures that the point being made is missed or at least glossed over to some degree, and I neither have the time to do this, nor the desire. Having said that, I do recognize that this may be your best attempt, I realize that you may be 12 years old, I realize that your cat may have died yesterday, but none of that matters in the context of voting and commenting - the images are what they are regardless of who created them. |
You of course, did have every right to ask them to remove the comment, I just hope you realized that there was (hopefully) nothing personal about it... Of course, if they commented too personally, that's where I suppose you certainly have all right to ask them to do so..
On the other hand, and please forgive me for saying so, but it may have been a bad idea to enter that photo in the first place... I've learned to never submit that which I love for voting in challenges here, for one reason or another, that just never goes particularly well from what I've seen.
*shrug* It's a complex issue, but the key is that you can't expect someone to not comment, and perhaps bluntly/rudely so, just because it's a photo or subject that you love dearly - it really doesn't change the rules. |
I don't believe it was a bad idea at all. She was happy to pose, and I'm happy I have that picture. Some of us are not professionals, and don't aspire to be professionals. Therefore, the models that we have available to us are of those we love. Not everyone here is here to "become". Some of us are just here because it's a hobby we love and we enjoy sharing the shots that mean something to us with others. Otherwise, what's the point? |
As long as you don't feel it was a bad idea, then it wasn't... My point I think is clear in any case, and I don't think that you really seem to disagree.
With regard to not being here to "become" - what does that mean? If you mean that you're not here to improve, and don't care for critique, then I would simply like to note, as the good General was kind enough to point out to me earlier, the DPC mission statement basically states that the purpose of the place is to help each other to improve as photographers.
Message edited by author 2012-07-18 22:13:54. |
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07/18/2012 10:16:14 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Yup. But I have yet to have someone give me a 1 or a 2 and articulate a somewhat intelligent response. That's the whole point. The 1 or 2 doesn't necessarily mean an intelligent response. It could be the few people that are trying to rig the vote. If you have an intelligent reason for voting a 1 or 2, take the time to teach and comment. |
I agree with you totally on this one |
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07/18/2012 10:23:14 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Of course, that's grossly generalized. If Brennan created a very dark, moody image and one-of-10 commenters said it was "too dark", they wouldn't be "wrong", they'd just be expressing a different aesthetic. |
Actually, I think if they said "too dark" they'd be making and expressing a value judgement; one which can have no real validity, since there's no agreed-upon standard for what constitutes the "proper" amount of darkness.
If they said "I think I'd like this more if it was lighter" they'd be expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic ... |
And this is one thing we should avoid getting too touchy about IMO... If they say it bluntly, fine, it should be quite obvious that this is only that person's opinion, no matter what they say, or how they say it. Either way, they're simply expressing an opinion based on their personal aesthetic, rough wording doesn't change that fact, nor should it change the reception (although, inevitably it does...) |
I started to make a long rambling reply, but deleted it. It's really not worth arguing the point that's been argued for years here already. I just want to point out one thing. Sometimes "not so nice" comments hurt for reasons completely different then what you are all arguing about. A few years ago I took a picture of my grandmother for a challenge. She died while the challenge was in voting. Someone had left a comment that just didn't sit right with me and after the challenge I asked them to remove it. They did. No problem. What everyone who comments need to remember is that even though it's a photography site, there are real, living breathing people behind those cameras and in those pictures. And sometimes, those comments hurt. |
Sure, absolutely! But, as I said in the OP:
Originally posted by Cory:
I strive to give an honest and open opinion that is not sugarcoated or watered down, hedging wastes time and usually ensures that the point being made is missed or at least glossed over to some degree, and I neither have the time to do this, nor the desire. Having said that, I do recognize that this may be your best attempt, I realize that you may be 12 years old, I realize that your cat may have died yesterday, but none of that matters in the context of voting and commenting - the images are what they are regardless of who created them. |
You of course, did have every right to ask them to remove the comment, I just hope you realized that there was (hopefully) nothing personal about it... Of course, if they commented too personally, that's where I suppose you certainly have all right to ask them to do so..
On the other hand, and please forgive me for saying so, but it may have been a bad idea to enter that photo in the first place... I've learned to never submit that which I love for voting in challenges here, for one reason or another, that just never goes particularly well from what I've seen.
*shrug* It's a complex issue, but the key is that you can't expect someone to not comment, and perhaps bluntly/rudely so, just because it's a photo or subject that you love dearly - it really doesn't change the rules. |
I don't believe it was a bad idea at all. She was happy to pose, and I'm happy I have that picture. Some of us are not professionals, and don't aspire to be professionals. Therefore, the models that we have available to us are of those we love. Not everyone here is here to "become". Some of us are just here because it's a hobby we love and we enjoy sharing the shots that mean something to us with others. Otherwise, what's the point? |
As long as you don't feel it was a bad idea, then it wasn't... My point I think is clear in any case, and I don't think that you really seem to disagree.
With regard to not being here to "become" - what does that mean? If you mean that you're not here to improve, and don't care for critique, then I would simply like to note, as the good General was kind enough to point out to me earlier, the DPC mission statement basically states that the purpose of the place is to help each other to improve as photographers. |
What I mean is I'm not trying to become famous, I'm not trying to start a business, I'm not here to do anything except associate with like minded people who enjoy the same hobby. Of course I'm always looking to improve. Why wouldn't I be? But I really don't believe that nasty comments are the way to get people to do that. There is really no need to be rude. So why do it other than to call attention to yourself (not you personally, whoever is making the comment). I really believe when people make rude comments they're just trying to be some kind of big shot. What does it really take to show a little tact? I'm not suggesting "nice shot" comments in case that's what you're thinking. I'm saying there is definitely a right way and a wrong way to make a comment though. I think, especially for the people that "are" trying to become professionals, learning how to be tactful would only help them in dealing with the general public. If you really feel my picture is crap, learn a nice way to say it. |
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07/18/2012 10:32:26 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
What I mean is I'm not trying to become famous, I'm not trying to start a business, I'm not here to do anything except associate with like minded people who enjoy the same hobby. Of course I'm always looking to improve. Why wouldn't I be? But I really don't believe that nasty comments are the way to get people to do that. There is really no need to be rude. So why do it other than to call attention to yourself (not you personally, whoever is making the comment). I really believe when people make rude comments they're just trying to be some kind of big shot. What does it really take to show a little tact? I'm not suggesting "nice shot" comments in case that's what you're thinking. I'm saying there is definitely a right way and a wrong way to make a comment though. I think, especially for the people that "are" trying to become professionals, learning how to be tactful would only help them in dealing with the general public. If you really feel my picture is crap, learn a nice way to say it. |
I do agree entirely, but we as entrants cannot expect that the voters will appreciate our images, nor can we really expect the commenters to not be somewhat rude sometimes, especially given the highly subjective nature of "rude", given that some people take even polite, but contrary, statements as being rude. And this doesn't even take into account those who's first language may not be English... In the end, I'd rather receive a good comment and a rude comment, rather than no comment. Hell, I'll take two rude, and one good one. Anything really, as long as the comments aren't just out of left-field, in that case I may ask for some feedback from other members. (and then beat on the commenter a bit if they are just crazy.. ;) )..
Message edited by author 2012-07-18 22:33:23. |
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07/18/2012 10:57:49 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Kelli:
What I mean is I'm not trying to become famous, I'm not trying to start a business, I'm not here to do anything except associate with like minded people who enjoy the same hobby. Of course I'm always looking to improve. Why wouldn't I be? But I really don't believe that nasty comments are the way to get people to do that. There is really no need to be rude. So why do it other than to call attention to yourself (not you personally, whoever is making the comment). I really believe when people make rude comments they're just trying to be some kind of big shot. What does it really take to show a little tact? I'm not suggesting "nice shot" comments in case that's what you're thinking. I'm saying there is definitely a right way and a wrong way to make a comment though. I think, especially for the people that "are" trying to become professionals, learning how to be tactful would only help them in dealing with the general public. If you really feel my picture is crap, learn a nice way to say it. |
I do agree entirely, but we as entrants cannot expect that the voters will appreciate our images, nor can we really expect the commenters to not be somewhat rude sometimes, especially given the highly subjective nature of "rude", given that some people take even polite, but contrary, statements as being rude. And this doesn't even take into account those who's first language may not be English... In the end, I'd rather receive a good comment and a rude comment, rather than no comment. Hell, I'll take two rude, and one good one. Anything really, as long as the comments aren't just out of left-field, in that case I may ask for some feedback from other members. (and then beat on the commenter a bit if they are just crazy.. ;) ).. |
I've been here 10 years. I've received over 9500 comments. I've only been offended enough to have a comment removed (by SC) once, and only once asked someone personally to remove one. I'm not easily offended obviously. But I have received some nasty comments that were uncalled for over the years. That's all I'm saying. I do appreciate the comments I receive. That's why they are all marked as helpful. Language barriers aside, I do still believe that there are some on here actually trying to be offensive when they write comments. You can usually tell the difference between something said in jest and something meant to be nasty. |
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07/18/2012 11:04:57 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Kelli:
What I mean is I'm not trying to become famous, I'm not trying to start a business, I'm not here to do anything except associate with like minded people who enjoy the same hobby. Of course I'm always looking to improve. Why wouldn't I be? But I really don't believe that nasty comments are the way to get people to do that. There is really no need to be rude. So why do it other than to call attention to yourself (not you personally, whoever is making the comment). I really believe when people make rude comments they're just trying to be some kind of big shot. What does it really take to show a little tact? I'm not suggesting "nice shot" comments in case that's what you're thinking. I'm saying there is definitely a right way and a wrong way to make a comment though. I think, especially for the people that "are" trying to become professionals, learning how to be tactful would only help them in dealing with the general public. If you really feel my picture is crap, learn a nice way to say it. |
I do agree entirely, but we as entrants cannot expect that the voters will appreciate our images, nor can we really expect the commenters to not be somewhat rude sometimes, especially given the highly subjective nature of "rude", given that some people take even polite, but contrary, statements as being rude. And this doesn't even take into account those who's first language may not be English... In the end, I'd rather receive a good comment and a rude comment, rather than no comment. Hell, I'll take two rude, and one good one. Anything really, as long as the comments aren't just out of left-field, in that case I may ask for some feedback from other members. (and then beat on the commenter a bit if they are just crazy.. ;) ).. |
I've been here 10 years. I've received over 9500 comments. I've only been offended enough to have a comment removed (by SC) once, and only once asked someone personally to remove one. I'm not easily offended obviously. But I have received some nasty comments that were uncalled for over the years. That's all I'm saying. I do appreciate the comments I receive. That's why they are all marked as helpful. Language barriers aside, I do still believe that there are some on here actually trying to be offensive when they write comments. You can usually tell the difference between something said in jest and something meant to be nasty. |
Sure, some folks are just vile... The trick is not confusing the more blunt ones as vile ones.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's razor. :) |
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