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08/15/2004 03:43:28 AM · #1
To anyone who cares to listen and I hope my voice will be heard

I have been a member of this site now for quite a while and I have enjoyed every moment.
It has helped me out of despair after the death of my brother and sister and a very bad time in my life, which I still struggle with everyday.

I won my camera a Fujifilm S3000 in a competition using my 'Drifting into the Sunset Balloon silhouette" which earned me a Blue Ribbon on this site, before that I always used my Fujifilm 2000Z and as you will see by my profile I feel with the exception of a few bad choices I have definitely improved in my photography I am really trying to be an active member and take things seriously as well as having fun and have made a few nice friends from this site.
I recently joined the Critique Club and found that many people respond and are very appreciative of my comments
I cannot spend every moment on the computer because I have to fight for it having a 14 year old daughter
Since I received my new camera I had to use a different programme to upload and it is much more involved than the programme I used before
and I was doing it wrongly and not saving the original file so I have had several disqualified and even though a few site members have tried to help me which I do appreciate When I have taken the trouble to send the original before I have loaded the one for the challenge no one has acknowledged my original so I have had a very frustrating time.
I accept that the problem is me but I have never cheated and would not wish to what would be the point?
Anyway to cut a long story short, today, I logged on to see how my "Footprints in gold paint" in the feet challenge was doing and find it has been disqualified because it is artwork.
These are my 18-month-old grand daughters footprints and I have had lots of nice comments about them and, yes, it is artwork, my artwork, created by my daughter and myself.
My point is this and ....
Now I am not picking on Gary (Kiwiness) (because I think his work is awesome) but what is his entry in Science H2O if it's not his artwork?
also his "Overpainted" entry. which is brilliant if it's not his Artwork? What is it?
There are, many, many, more I could pick on and say is Artwork photography is artwork
Yes, mine is artwork, and I am proud of it, but to be DQ because of it is saying that mine is Artwork and Gary's is not and I think his is Artwork brilliant artwork, but it is a photograph of his artwork non the less.
I am not trying to compare myself to Gary, but I am just trying to make a point
I was proud to put my little grand daughters feet on this site but I think this is going a bit far to disqualify me because of it because I created the image that I photographed most of the images on this site are set up images
This was once a site I loved to log onto but I find it very disappointing to think that my images are not fairly judged
I am a very demoralised member and I am really sad to say that photography is no longer a joy
Sally

Message edited by author 2004-08-15 04:05:09.
08/15/2004 04:19:24 AM · #2
I'm probably not the best person to answer this seeing as I just a registered user and a newbee to boot, but I don't think you understood the reference to artwork. The way I read it is they want people to vote on your photograph art rather than your artwork art. Does that make any sense. Someone might see your photo and think "great footprints" rather than "that's a great photograph of a footprint". I have noticed that there is a couple artists around here (can't recall user names yet) that are really good at drawing. If you go through the Balance photos you'll find one of the ones I'm talking about. Anyway, the person sketched a hand which by itself would have been DQ'd because it would have been considered "artwork". The photographer added a pencil that was "balanced" on the tip of the first finger of the sketched hand. By adding the pencil he turned it from just "artwork" (just of photo of artwork he created) into photographic art because the "artwork" wasn't the only component of the photo. Maybe if you had compared your footprints to your feet or added some other element in might not have been DQ'd.
Like I said before, I may not be the best person to answer your question, but I really don't think anyone is picking on you. If you think they are try reading the thread "please unDQ my photo. It may change your mind. And don't let this site ruin taking pictures for you. Even if you haven't won any ribbons it doesn't mean your photos aren't top rate. I really like the butterfly one, and I hope to see more of your work.

Photo I'm thinking of is titled Balance and it won the blue ribbon for the Pencil Challenge, not the Balance Challenge.

Message edited by author 2004-08-15 04:57:35.
08/15/2004 04:24:45 AM · #3
Well said Donna.
08/15/2004 04:29:57 AM · #4
Thank you for the reply.I do appreciate your time. But that doesn't really answer my questions.
I have won two ribbons and My reference to Kiwiness work HO2 that won a ribbon is artwork photographed so I really do not understand why mine is any different
I am just confused to say the least
I certainly didnt try to break any rules.
Sally

Message edited by author 2004-08-15 05:00:18.
08/15/2004 04:36:06 AM · #5
Hell,. since its been DQ'd could you post the photo so we can see it? I honestly don't remember it.
08/15/2004 04:37:38 AM · #6
I'd really like to see your image, it sounds lovely. Would you consider putting it in your portfolio?
08/15/2004 04:38:30 AM · #7
I just looked at kiwiness's photo's,.. I'd consider those set up photographs (not actual physical artwork).
08/15/2004 04:48:53 AM · #8
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/11078/thumb/97748.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/11078/thumb/97748.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
This is the image in question or at least a very similar one they took the real one off the site and I have a few of them
Sally

Message edited by author 2004-08-15 04:51:49.
08/15/2004 04:51:34 AM · #9
What do you mean by not my artwork? The ideas for those two shots were maybe not mine, but not my artwork? Explain please.
08/15/2004 04:55:30 AM · #10
Originally posted by kiwiness:

What do you mean by not my artwork? The ideas for those two shots were maybe not mine, but not my artwork? Explain please.


We were just discussing why a photo had gotton DQ'd. Didn't mean to imply that the photo's are not your work.
08/15/2004 04:57:01 AM · #11
What do you mean by not my artwork? The ideas for those two shots were maybe not mine, but not my artwork? Explain please.

If your referring to my comment.... they aren't physical artwork. They don't exist outside of a picture. They were purely set up for a shot. You didn't actually make a drawing or paint a painting then photograph it. The picture itself is the artwork.

Edit: Its a good thing.

Message edited by author 2004-08-15 04:59:22.
08/15/2004 04:59:11 AM · #12
Originally posted by kiwiness:

What do you mean by not my artwork? The ideas for those two shots were maybe not mine, but not my artwork? Explain please.


Hi Gary

I am sorry I picked on you but I just thought yours was a good and very memorable example, nothing against you. But I said, It 'is' your artwork and then you photographed it. Just as I did with 'My Footprints' entry
I just dont get it, to be DQ for my attempt it was only doing around 5.350 but I was happy with that
Regards
Sally
08/15/2004 05:03:21 AM · #13
Originally posted by d14:

What do you mean by not my artwork? The ideas for those two shots were maybe not mine, but not my artwork? Explain please.

If your referring to my comment.... they aren't physical artwork. They don't exist outside of a picture. They were purely set up for a shot. You didn't actually make a drawing or paint a painting then photograph it. The picture itself is the artwork.

Edit: Its a good thing.


I don't understand, why train's art cannot be called setup? The wind blown the dust of gold after she took the photo. If we can take photos of statues that are considered artwork and get away with it (I took some myself), why can't we just take a photo of our setup? If I make a wonderful floral arangement that would be called artwork, can't I take a photo just because it happens to be too beautiful?
08/15/2004 05:08:36 AM · #14
Originally posted by d14:

What do you mean by not my artwork? The ideas for those two shots were maybe not mine, but not my artwork? Explain please.

If your referring to my comment.... they aren't physical artwork. They don't exist outside of a picture. They were purely set up for a shot. You didn't actually make a drawing or paint a painting then photograph it. The picture itself is the artwork.

Edit: Its a good thing.


Hi Ryan
How do you know that my image was not just set up for the challenge?
It was in fact an idea when I saw the challenge to actually spur me on to get something done we had been going to do for ages she is 18 months old we have been going to do that since she was born I thought it was a nice idea so it was created for the image I used in the Feet challenge and sure its framed and in her room along with hand prints

Garys (Kiwiness) HO2 blue Ribbon winner was done on a blue rubbery mat with water in a syringe making the droplets and then photographed ( Brilliant idea, well deserve win and great talent!) that is no different to me painting a childs foot with gold paint then placing that on a blue card and then photographing that. IMHO (I am D Q ?????)
Sally

Message edited by author 2004-08-15 05:14:59.
08/15/2004 05:09:21 AM · #15
I think the problem is that it is an actually peice of art that can be hung on her wall, wether it was made for this shot or not. It may be a great shot,. but its still against the rules.

Artwork. Literal photographic representations of the entirety of existing works of art (including your own) are not considered acceptable submissions
08/15/2004 05:10:14 AM · #16
Sorry
08/15/2004 05:14:49 AM · #17
Originally posted by d14:

What do you mean by not my artwork? The ideas for those two shots were maybe not mine, but not my artwork? Explain please.

If your referring to my comment.... they aren't physical artwork. They don't exist outside of a picture. They were purely set up for a shot. You didn't actually make a drawing or paint a painting then photograph it. The picture itself is the artwork.

Edit: Its a good thing.

How so? Is it only art if it can be moved wholly from one location to another? What if he had used clear silicon instead of water to make the drops? The look would have been the same (or at least very similar), but it could have been pick up and moved around -- it could even have been put in a frame and hung on a wall (if that is what it takes to be considered art.

---

train: Try not to take it so hard -- the only thing I've seen more fickle than the voters around here are the SC deciding what to DQ and when to enforce the rules and TOS.

David
08/15/2004 05:15:53 AM · #18
Train, here is another example. Lets say that I'm a craftsman and I make blown glass for a living. I just created this beautiful butterfly with the most amazing colors that would impress anyone and I photo it and enter it into the contest. When people see this are they going to more impressed with and vote on my skills as a craftsman to create the butterfly or are they going see my efforts as a photographer.
I just guess that is the kind of thinking into the making of the rule. Heck, I took out my first submission because I forgot to save the original and had to reshoot just to get something in on-time. And I still don't think anyone is picking on you.

I was typing this while everyone else was posting. And you make some good points, too. Makes me wonder if my Neon entry might get DQ'd.

Message edited by author 2004-08-15 05:20:51.
08/15/2004 05:20:51 AM · #19
What if he had used clear silicon instead of water to make the drops? The look would have been the same (or at least very similar), but it could have been pick up and moved around -- it could even have been put in a frame and hung on a wall

If this were the case,. yes,. DQ it. However its a picture of water drops that took a whole hell of a lot of skill and lighting knowledge to take.

Message edited by author 2004-08-15 05:21:43.
08/15/2004 05:23:23 AM · #20
Maybe picking on me is a bit heavy its just lately I cant seem to do a darn thing right and I really didnt think of this as artwork as such just a good idea that I created I could have photographed my partners ugly feet YuK!

I hope I dont see any statues on this site as they are artworks or bridges or buildings or flower arrangements ............. they are all artworks created by people
I think people get so uptight about things me included and I want to be voted on for my talent to produce a good image and I may be stupid but it was a nice if not cute image of something dear to me
So I am going to watch T V now and sulk LOL!
Sally

Message edited by author 2004-08-15 05:24:57.
08/15/2004 05:26:13 AM · #21
Originally posted by Britannica:

Originally posted by d14:

What do you mean by not my artwork? The ideas for those two shots were maybe not mine, but not my artwork? Explain please.

If your referring to my comment.... they aren't physical artwork. They don't exist outside of a picture. They were purely set up for a shot. You didn't actually make a drawing or paint a painting then photograph it. The picture itself is the artwork.

Edit: Its a good thing.

How so? Is it only art if it can be moved wholly from one location to another? What if he had used clear silicon instead of water to make the drops? The look would have been the same (or at least very similar), but it could have been pick up and moved around -- it could even have been put in a frame and hung on a wall (if that is what it takes to be considered art.



I have to agree, both works were set up specifically for the purpose fo the challenge. Their longevity should not be relevant. Where does one draw the line. If I create a natural artwork using leaves or snow or branches is that considered art because it lasts a few days before degrading? What if I make an artwork from marzipan? That might last a day or two? How long the piece lasts should not affect whether it is art or not.

I have to agree absolutely 100% that if Kiwiness' examples were not DQd then nor should train's.

I actually think this is a VERY strong example of double standards.

And I'm someone who loves Gary's work and considers him to be a friend, so I'm hardly hoping his images are DQd.
08/15/2004 05:29:02 AM · #22
I certainly dont want Gary's images D Q either I couldnt live with myself if that happened I admire his work so much
I just used it as an example I could just as easily used a number of others.Many others on this site.
Sally
08/15/2004 05:30:27 AM · #23
Pottery is artwork, isn't it? But we can take photos of this kind of artwork.
This is a wonderful example what a photographer can do: ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/152/thumb/43970.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/152/thumb/43970.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
I found more but not many with a blue ribbon. Where the site is going to go if we decide to DQ everything that might be considered artwork. Not even photos of the Taj Mahal? Then we complain about too many flowers and bugs? Personally I find Foot prints as a very inventive photo and I see no reason to be DQ.

Message edited by author 2004-08-15 05:32:49.
08/15/2004 05:34:38 AM · #24
You've got more to that photo than just the pottery. The photographer created art with art,. The lighting and the shadows and what not. If Train's image was put into an artistic context, for example, taken in the middle of a field or on a beach, I don't think it would have been DQ'd. As it stands,. the photo is a full frame crop of another piece of artwork.
08/15/2004 05:47:12 AM · #25
I am probably not the most qualified of people to comment, but I consider all photos to be a form of artwork. Just as a painter composes and records what he/she sees...so do we. The craft that goes into creating a photo is a modern digital form of painting.

To take a photo then manipulate it in PS or some other software could be construed as artwork if it becomes a different picture to the one taken originally. Minor tweaks and mods do not alter the photo beyond all recognition.

I saw Train's photo and thought it was a reproduction of a pair of feet in gold and voted as such. Had they been in sand there would have been no complaints. Most of us crop photos and these are not DQ'd as artwork.

Neither are the numerous photos that show a Lego man on a completely white background, similar to many advertising photos, and these are called art by the photographers who work in the media industry.

And surely as photographers we are all practising our 'Art & Craft'.
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