Help with my workflow - or lack thereof.

Pentax DA 16-45mm f/4.0 ED AL AF

05/28/2012 11:45:41 PM · #1

I need help/advice to fix my workflow.

In the past, I primarily shot JPG and the in-camera processing was quite good (Canon 20D). There would be some situations where I shot RAW. I use Picasa as a general viewer as it is simple for my wife to use to tag photos she likes and print, etc.

Recently, I switched to shooting all RAW. This has caused quite a few issues, mainly, Picasa is not very good at handling the RAW files.

Here is how I have setup my files and the software I have and what I want to accomplish. I'm just not sure of the best way to do this.

What I have:
-I don't delete photos except in the camera. What gets transferred is there to stay
-Files are saved in their original folder structure
-I have Photoshop CS2 (likewise Bridge as well) with ACR (versioned through CS2).
-I have the standard Canon software (e.g. DPP)
-A CS2 macro which does a very good job of adjusting brightness/contrast and sharpening for the JPG files I used to save. It works decent for RAW files.

What I want:
-The original files brought over from the camera to remain complete untouched. The checksum will always match that of the original file from the camera card.
-A general processing workflow for "everyday" images that have no intention of extraordinary processing. (For images I really plan to work up, I have a separate workflow that won't change which entails copying the RAW file(s) to a folder dedicated to the processing.
-Prefer not to purchase new software.

Thanks in advance for any advice. If you need further information, let me know, I tried to put all the key points down.

Paul

alohadave

Pentax K-5

05/29/2012 12:51:04 AM · #2

If you don't want to buy new software, it will depend on your camera where you can go.

CS2 is old and the versions of ACR that work with it won't support newer cameras than from when it was released.

You can use DPP to convert the files to TIFF, and any version of Photoshop should read them no problem. Or, you could get Adobe's DNG converter (free) and convert your RAW files to DNG, and also be able to open the DNG files in CS2.

Copying files using the file system won't change any checksums or anything.

IAmEliKatz

Nikon D5

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

05/29/2012 01:16:19 AM · #3

Here's my current workflow:
Maybe you can get some ideas.

Get home.
Remove batteries/cards from devices.
Charge Batteries
Attach External Hard Drive
Using external card reader, copy contents of cards into folders in "Card Backup" Folder sorted by date.
Copy/Sync Entire photography folder to external HDD.
I then copy the entire contents of the cards into a new folder placed on my desktop therefore creating a backup of the file.
Sort and delete files from the folder on the desktop leaving the ones i want to retouch for editing later.
After sorting images into appropriate folders (people, candid, places, events, still life, abstract etc..), I copy the contents of the photography folder again to my HDD.
Then place cards back into camera and format; ready to shoot another day.

All that is done using windows explorer. No software is used whatsoever. Yes it can be a pain at times to remember where a certain picture is but I find it eventually.

raish

Olympus C-2500L

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

05/29/2012 03:54:52 AM · #4

Originally posted by IAmEliKatz:

All that is done using windows explorer. No software is used whatsoever. Yes it can be a pain at times to remember where a certain picture is but I find it eventually.

I've been known to use my dpc portfolio and the uploading dates to help me find the (sorted by date) folder on my HD that I'm looking for. It occurs to me that it might be an idea to put a picture up on flickr or some such at diary-like intervals...

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/29/2012 07:22:07 AM · #5

Have you updated your Picasa lately? I use it as a viewer/sorter/etc. like you. It handles my raw files just fine. Doing a "save as" in Picasa will convert to jpeg for printing.

05/29/2012 07:30:07 AM · #6

Yes. Picasa is up to date. It handles RAW files fine in the sense that it can view them but does so in a generic way far less superior than ACR's "auto" setting.

Originally posted by Kelli:

Have you updated your Picasa lately? I use it as a viewer/sorter/etc. like you. It handles my raw files just fine. Doing a "save as" in Picasa will convert to jpeg for printing.

malikinam

05/29/2012 08:21:07 AM · #7

yes, i have update my picasa and i like this very much but now i want to learn more about the picasa.
do you like to discuss with me about that??

Message edited by author 2012-05-31 08:39:37.

05/29/2012 08:43:07 AM · #8

I have no plans for a new camera any time in the near or distant future so CS2 is suiting fine. If I ever do get a new camera I'll consider it then.

But, I have determined that I don't want to use DPP now for two reasons:
1) It edits the original file
2) It is not as good as ACR.

Originally posted by alohadave:

05/29/2012 10:33:52 AM · #9

Originally posted by PGerst:

Since you are shooting RAW, you really want to take full advantage of all that information. ACR has come a long way since the version you are using, so if you like what you're using, you'd really like the current version.
You are satisfied with CS2, so I would not recommend you upgrade that. You already are beyond the upgrade pricing window, so whenever you do upgrade you will be faced with a full-price purchase. Delay as long as you want to, at this point there is no penalty for doing so.
What I would recommend is trying Lr (Lightroom). It will give you access to the latest and greatest version of ACR, plus provide exceptional organizing capability. For the type of edits that you do, you may find that you need nothing else for the vast majority of your work. The icing on the cake is that all the editing you do in Lr is non-destructive, your original remains untouched. You can easily apply any or all settings to a whole series of shots, saving a *ton* of time.
Lr has a bunch of benefits, but it has a learning curve. To gain the benefits of the organizational tool, you want to make sure that you set it up to organize the way you will want to do it going forward. For example, I import my photos by copying from the CF card to folders by date underneath folders by year. In addition, I can keyword on import, so that I can later find all related shots in seconds by searching the keywords.
The price on Lr has been lowered significantly, you can buy the full boxed version for $145. You can get a free 30-day trial from Adobe. If you are going to try Lr, I would suggest buying a good book on it and read the sections on how to set it up prior to installing the trial. Then go and install the trial, run it for 30 days and decide. When you install the trial, make sure that as you import, you leave your current file structure alone; copy all files to a new location to create the Lr library. This will eat space, but if you choose to stick with Lr, you can seamlessly continue on with it, and archive your old folders as a backup.

Edit for typos

Message edited by author 2012-05-29 10:35:07.

05/29/2012 11:31:18 AM · #10

Thanks. Perhaps this is the compromise I need.

Just a couple questions about LR, you said it is non destructive, does it save the data in side car files like ACR? What about tagging, keywords, etc? Do those become imbedded into the file (that is what DPP did) or does it keep it in sidecar or database files?

Lastly, you mentioned trying out LR but on a copied folder. Why? Is there risk of damage to the files or just to prevent deletion? How does LR handle files that have been tagged read only in windows?

Thanks again, perhaps this is worth a look.

Originally posted by kirbic:

What I would recommend is trying Lr (Lightroom).

05/29/2012 11:58:28 AM · #11

Good questions...
- Yes, Lr can save the settings in sidecar files; I believe it also optionally can save the changes as metadata within the file. I like the sidecars, personally.
- I believe that all keywords are embedded, as IPTC data; I'd have to confirm this. This is usually what you want, since it will enable you to use your keywords with other software.
- The reason I recommend the copies is two-fold. First, if you find you simply don't want to keep Lr after the trial, you just uninstall it and delete the catalog, and you are done. should you want to keep it, you just archive off your old folder structure, purchase Lr and enter your SN and you are done. There's no trying to "undo" changes you've made. The downside is that you have two copies of all your junk in the interim. You can minimize the space requirements by only importing part of your files, initially. Say, just the past year or so.

I can't emphasize enough that you want to understand the import process and how to set it up before jumping in.

05/29/2012 12:16:01 PM · #12

Thanks. It certainly gives me something to think about. I know the local camera shop in town uses LR for all of their work. I may swing by and check it out.

Paul

05/29/2012 06:29:35 PM · #13

Originally posted by kirbic:

- I believe that all keywords are embedded, as IPTC data; I'd have to confirm this. This is usually what you want, since it will enable you to use your keywords with other software.

I confirmed that the keywords are saved in the metadata for the file. They are under Adobe Photoshop Properties>Keywords. In Ps, they show up in the image info dialog under the "Description" category.

05/29/2012 10:22:08 PM · #14

Thanks. Bridge does the same and it makes sense that it does for the same reason it makes sense to tag GPS data or copyright information to a photo.

But, the essential problem remains is how to manage and work with photo while maintaining the original file integrity. Perhaps my issue isn't so much as workflow but with original and working file storage. I guess a full working and full archive copy is needed.

Though, it seems LR will help with RAW processing more than bridge.

ETA: Correction, in Bridge, meta data in sidecar files.

Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by kirbic:

- I believe that all keywords are embedded, as IPTC data; I'd have to confirm this. This is usually what you want, since it will enable you to use your keywords with other software.

I confirmed that the keywords are saved in the metadata for the file. They are under Adobe Photoshop Properties>Keywords. In Ps, they show up in the image info dialog under the "Description" category.

Message edited by author 2012-05-29 22:43:35.

05/29/2012 10:44:57 PM · #15

Originally posted by PGerst:

But, the essential problem remains is how to manage and work with photo while maintaining the original file integrity.

There are definitely no issues with Lr and DPC original integrity for RAW files (JPEG may be different under some conditions). Since you raised the question of how the keywords are stored, I had a nagging suspicion, and I was correct; when Lr is set to record changes in a sidecar file, the original is never touched, all supplementary info is stored in the sidecar. Upon export (to .tiff, .jpeg, etc.) the metadata is updated with keywords and other pertinent information from the sidecar.

Message edited by author 2012-05-29 22:45:43.

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

05/29/2012 10:48:42 PM · #16

Thanks. I think this is all coming together. Using lightroom would then avoid the need to run photoshop whereas Bridge requires that.

You've given me a lot to look at and experiment with. Thanks.

bigskyeye

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

05/30/2012 10:41:32 PM · #17

I agree with the lightroom idea, if I remember right when I bought Lightroom it came with a one free month of Linda.com that had some fantastic learning videos on Lightroom (and other great subjects) I thought Chris Orwig's videos were best but there are a lot of choices. If there is not a discount it is still well worth the $30 or so a month. You pay by the month, so you can just use it for the month and quit if you want. I liked it so much I kept it for more than a year.