Violation of Rules? - DPChallenge Forums

05/02/2012 01:09:21 PM · #26

Originally posted by deeby:

The "unethical" comment was flung way too early in the discussion, IMO.

Probably, but it's a natural reaction to any suggestion of dishonesty.

deeby

Canon EOS-60D

05/02/2012 01:11:46 PM · #27

Message edited by author 2012-07-24 16:38:56.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/02/2012 01:13:28 PM · #28

Originally posted by scalvert:

A one-size-fits-all rule doesn't necessarily achieve fairness.

that was my main point, thanks for clearing that up.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

05/02/2012 01:14:09 PM · #29

Originally posted by deeby:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by deeby:
The "unethical" comment was flung way too early in the discussion, IMO.

Probably, but it's a natural reaction to any suggestion of dishonesty.

I think he was being more pragmatic than dishonest.

How is leaving a known-to-be-illegal photo in the challenge "pragmatic?"

scarbrd

Leica M10

Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux M Aspherical MF - Black

05/02/2012 01:17:43 PM · #30

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Joe Whatshisname enters an image that he knows to be shot outside the challenge dates, . . .

I never trusted that Joe Whatshisname anyway. ;-)

05/02/2012 01:20:28 PM · #31

to the nature of my character, i appreciate the the debate, i have however never done this, but under my old mindset i would have let the image ride had i realized i broke a rule not to be intentionally dishonest but rather playing the odds considering both penalty outcomes to be equal.

they however are not equal and now i know.

"...and knowing is half the battle"

Message edited by author 2012-05-02 13:21:38.

deeby

Canon EOS-60D

05/02/2012 01:24:25 PM · #32

Message edited by author 2012-07-24 16:39:07.

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

05/02/2012 01:25:38 PM · #33

Originally posted by mike_311:

Actually they ARE equal.

What they said was you can Self-DQ provided you didn't break a rule. So if you discovered after the fact that you broke a rule and asked to Self-DQ, you WOULD suffer the same penalty as if you were "caught" so to speak.

05/02/2012 01:31:53 PM · #34

but the self DQ for rules violation doesn't necessarily count towards a suspension and that was my concern.

Message edited by author 2012-05-02 13:32:20.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

05/02/2012 01:33:59 PM · #35

Originally posted by klkitchens:

No, they are not equal. If a user discovers they may have broken a rule and self-reports, the DQ is not likely to be counted toward penalties. So if you get a second DQ within your next 25 submissions, whether you self-reported the first DQ will almost certainly make a big difference, namely, you'll get a 1-week penalty if you did not.

05/02/2012 01:42:36 PM · #36

Originally posted by mike_311:

but the self DQ for rules violation doesn't necessarily count towards a suspension and that was my concern.

Yes, they do. I self DQ'd a bad sp, then got a regular DQ, and received the one week challenge suspension penalty.

05/02/2012 01:46:31 PM · #37

ok, worm can has officially been opened.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

05/02/2012 01:55:55 PM · #38

FWIW I think any DQ should result in 100 hours of community service in a pink jumpsuit.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

05/02/2012 01:57:21 PM · #39

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

FWIW I think any DQ should result in 100 hours of community service in a pink jumpsuit.

I don't look good in pink. :D

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

05/02/2012 02:00:35 PM · #40

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

FWIW I think any DQ should result in 100 hours of community service in a pink jumpsuit.

LOL! Mr. Arpaio, you have outed yourself!

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

05/02/2012 02:02:23 PM · #41

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by mike_311:
but the self DQ for rules violation doesn't necessarily count towards a suspension and that was my concern.

Yes, they do. I self DQ'd a bad sp, then got a regular DQ, and received the one week challenge suspension penalty.

Yes, a self-DQ is *different* than a self-reported rules violation. A self-DQ is a regular DQ, which you can do for pretty much any reason. The penalty for subsequent DQs *does apply* in these cases, because the desire is to keep folks from "frivolous self-DQs."

frisca

Nikon D70

05/02/2012 02:04:23 PM · #42

If you self-DQ an otherwise legal entry for whatever reason, YES, that will count if you get a rules-violation DQ within 25 challenges, resulting in a one week suspension from entering. If you enter an image you realize later is illegal and no one has yet requested a DQ on it or Site Council hasn't considered the image yet, we will frequently allow this to be a "no penalty" DQ, meaning if you get another DQ within 25 challenges, we are not likely to impose the one week penalty. If we discover the violation first, no grace.

The discretion we retain is to allow us to decide each case on its merits and consider the history of the user before we decide the penalty (or no-penalty as the case may be.) This is not a can of worms, nor should it be shocking. Its a consistent, balanced approach that considers both objective and subject grounds.

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

05/02/2012 02:14:24 PM · #43

Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by klkitchens:

Actually they ARE equal.

What they said was you can Self-DQ provided you didn't break a rule. So if you discovered after the fact that you broke a rule and asked to Self-DQ, you WOULD suffer the same penalty as if you were "caught" so to speak.

No, they are not equal. If a user discovers they may have broken a rule and self-reports, the DQ is not likely to be counted toward penalties. So if you get a second DQ within your next 25 submissions, whether you self-reported the first DQ will almost certainly make a big difference, namely, you'll get a 1-week penalty if you did not.

According to Shannon "That would be a Self-DQ (only allowed if no rules were broken)."

Sounds like an unwritten "rule" is out there.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

05/02/2012 02:15:42 PM · #44

That's just bizarre. If I'd have claimed I unintentionally broke a rule and self DQ'd, no punishment. But being unhappy with the direction comments were taking and self DQing, punishment. That seems pretty backwards to me.

frisca

Nikon D70

05/02/2012 02:21:56 PM · #45

Originally posted by Kelli:

There has to actually be a rules violation AND you admit it before you're caught in order to qualify for grace. Just saying there was a violation in order to get a break isn't going to work.

ETA: We have placed limits on self-DQs so that people will consider each of their entries carefully and not enter them "for the hell of it" and then remove them once the scores or comments are not to their liking.

Message edited by author 2012-05-02 14:23:16.

Sony Sonnar T* 35mm F2.8 ZA

05/02/2012 02:22:36 PM · #46

Originally posted by Kelli:

i cant say i agree with this.

like it was stated earlier, you shouldn't be allowed to pull an entry scot free on the basis you aren't happy with how it was being received.

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

05/02/2012 02:32:46 PM · #47

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by Kelli:
That's just bizarre. If I'd have claimed I unintentionally broke a rule and self DQ'd, no punishment. But being unhappy with the direction comments were taking and self DQing, punishment. That seems pretty backwards to me.

i cant say i agree with this.

like it was stated earlier, you shouldn't be allowed to pull an entry scot free on the basis you aren't happy with how it was being received.

Perhaps pulling it should end the vote, but the votes acquired to that point remain.

That'll learn 'em!

salmiakki

Sony Alpha a7R III

05/02/2012 02:35:44 PM · #48

Originally posted by klkitchens:

Perhaps pulling it should end the vote, but the votes acquired to that point remain.

That'll learn 'em!

That is how it works now.

05/02/2012 02:38:28 PM · #49

Originally posted by salmiakki:

Originally posted by klkitchens:
Perhaps pulling it should end the vote, but the votes acquired to that point remain.

That'll learn 'em!

That is how it works now.

Actually, a self DQ disappears.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III