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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Announcements >> 'Art of 2011' results recalculated
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 122, (reverse)
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 03/27/2012 01:32:25 PM · #26
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The jury lacks the power to validate the images it has chosen for its awards. It seems to me disingenuous to disqualify ONE image because it had the misfortune to fail the validation process in the official challenge. Who's to say which, if any, of the other juried-award images would themselves pass muster?

An excellent point!
 03/27/2012 03:46:12 PM · #27
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
Originally posted by mike_311:
IMO, i think expert is taken too far here. While the images should still be photographic in nature, they often times are not.


Expert should include what he did here. There should be a separate category called "digital art" which covers what currently falls under expert.


I think this might be an interesting idea. However, it might prove difficult to mark a clear line between the two.
 03/27/2012 03:50:02 PM · #28
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The jury lacks the power to validate the images it has chosen for its awards. It seems to me disingenuous to disqualify ONE image because it had the misfortune to fail the validation process in the official challenge. Who's to say which, if any, of the other juried-award images would themselves pass muster?

An excellent point!


I actually thought the 'jury' was an official dpc event (so I have learnt something today). Even if it wasn't there is nothing stopping a validation request being made for the jury ribbon winners? And if an image has been dq's from the main challenge then it obviously cannot be judged by the jury? Maybe if its done again then the jury should not make their decision until all finalists have been validated?

03/27/2012 03:59:48 PM · #29
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The jury lacks the power to validate the images it has chosen for its awards. It seems to me disingenuous to disqualify ONE image because it had the misfortune to fail the validation process in the official challenge. Who's to say which, if any, of the other juried-award images would themselves pass muster?

An excellent point!


I actually thought the 'jury' was an official dpc event (so I have learnt something today). Even if it wasn't there is nothing stopping a validation request being made for the jury ribbon winners? And if an image has been dq's from the main challenge then it obviously cannot be judged by the jury? Maybe if its done again then the jury should not make their decision until all finalists have been validated?


Let me ask you this: you know the "Posthumous Awards"? Do you think Don, or any of the others who give those awards out, should rescind their award if an image they gave it to is later DQ'd?

Look, this isn't that big of a deal. It's not like these awards the jury gives out live forever immortalized in the site stats or anything. This all came about because, a few years ago, there was a lot of discussion about how different the results might be if the images were voted on by a PANEL instead of the entire membership. You're familiar with all these discussions, I'm sure. And the idea was floated that it would be INTERESTING to have an "Art" challenge and have a jury running as a sort of sidecar to the popular vote.

People have enjoyed it, and it's been done a number of times since. But there's no official standing; it's just a bunch of members, in a panel, having a collective opinion. As skewsme has pointed out many times, OUR opinion is no more valid than YOURS, or anyone else's...

Hopefully we can avoid sucking all the life out of the phenomenon by getting caught up in the minutiae...

R.
 03/27/2012 04:10:30 PM · #30
Originally posted by scalvert:
The results of the 'Art of 2011' challenge have been recalculated, due to the disqualification of the former 1st place image for cloning out major elements (several groups of people). Congrats to our new yellow ribbon and honourable mention!



This issue of cloning or blurring things out within "the law" has never been clearly addressed by the SC. The above is one example of a picture with obvious signs that heavy cloning and/or blurring were done resulting in a picture that probably looks very different than the original (cars in the extreme left of the field, whatever was visible through the glass in the showroom, sky), yet it was validated; there are other examples. I think it would be very informative and educational if the originals for both, the above and the recently dq'd picture were published by the SC.
 03/27/2012 04:35:25 PM · #31
now where did i put that pitchfork?
 03/27/2012 04:51:25 PM · #32
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The jury lacks the power to validate the images it has chosen for its awards. It seems to me disingenuous to disqualify ONE image because it had the misfortune to fail the validation process in the official challenge. Who's to say which, if any, of the other juried-award images would themselves pass muster?

An excellent point!


I actually thought the 'jury' was an official dpc event (so I have learnt something today). Even if it wasn't there is nothing stopping a validation request being made for the jury ribbon winners? And if an image has been dq's from the main challenge then it obviously cannot be judged by the jury? Maybe if its done again then the jury should not make their decision until all finalists have been validated?

These side-awards should not get mentions in the challenge descriptions or "Extra Rules" if they are not going to follow the same rules as DPC. by giving them mention adds an air of being "official" to them - which of course they are not - they are just some people trying to say "I like these ones even if the majority of people don't".

Keep the side awards for those that are interested but keep them out of the official DPC challenges.
 03/27/2012 04:53:40 PM · #33
Good point and probably why I 'felt' it was official.
 03/27/2012 04:53:40 PM · #34
Originally posted by Nuzzer:
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The jury lacks the power to validate the images it has chosen for its awards. It seems to me disingenuous to disqualify ONE image because it had the misfortune to fail the validation process in the official challenge. Who's to say which, if any, of the other juried-award images would themselves pass muster?

An excellent point!


I actually thought the 'jury' was an official dpc event (so I have learnt something today). Even if it wasn't there is nothing stopping a validation request being made for the jury ribbon winners? And if an image has been dq's from the main challenge then it obviously cannot be judged by the jury? Maybe if its done again then the jury should not make their decision until all finalists have been validated?

These side-awards should not get mentions in the challenge descriptions or "Extra Rules" if they are not going to follow the same rules as DPC. by giving them mention adds an air of being "official" to them - which of course they are not - they are just some people trying to say "I like these ones even if the majority of people don't".

Keep the side awards for those that are interested but keep them out of the official DPC challenges.


I agree...if you want to play that game and have a jury which is somewhat linked to the main challenge...especially as you get to choose your own judges...then play fair and stick to the rules!!
 03/27/2012 05:07:21 PM · #35
Originally posted by Judi:
... play fair and stick to the rules!!

Just a reminder that the rule involved here is one which requires subjective interpretation, where there can be a legitimate difference of opinion about how much is "too much" of something or other -- it is not the same as (say) "cheating" by entering a picture taken last year.
 03/27/2012 05:09:08 PM · #36
I love having the occasional supplemental partially sanctioned jury challenges. I do not mind at all that the rules might rely heavily on on the honor system rather than official validation. I think it enhances the official challenges, and I love seeing the results and reading through the jury members' comments. I really hope all this nit picking does not throw a wrench in the works.
 03/27/2012 05:10:55 PM · #37
Well said, Mark.
 03/27/2012 05:11:19 PM · #38
Originally posted by markwiley:
I love having the occasional supplemental partially sanctioned jury challenges. I do not mind at all that the rules might rely heavily on on the honor system rather than official validation. I think it enhances the official challenges, and I love seeing the results and reading through the jury members' comments. I really hope all this nit picking does not throw a wrench in the works.

Totally agree :)
 03/27/2012 05:19:56 PM · #39
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Judi:
... play fair and stick to the rules!!

Just a reminder that the rule involved here is one which requires subjective interpretation, where there can be a legitimate difference of opinion about how much is "too much" of something or other -- it is not the same as (say) "cheating" by entering a picture taken last year.


I was referring to the DQ images. If an image wins a challenge and then violates the rules, then it is stripped of its ribbon and DQéd. So with the jury side of the challenge, why do they get to follow different rules....where an image has broken the site rules for the challenge and is DQéd...shouldn't it be stripped of it's juried award??? The jury is linked with the main part of the challenge...I do not see where they are allowed to follow their own set of rules....I was led to believe that you still had to follow the site rules for your image to be judged by the jury.

This so reminds me of a classroom situation...where they have a class competition and the teacher chooses a particular student to select the judging panel. That child chooses it's class friends and even though they all have their own opinion, when they are in a group situation they blindly follow each other....and make up their own rules as they go. Do you remember the frustration that you felt in that situation...well guess what...this is no different. You can feel the frustration building over this decision.
 03/27/2012 05:22:27 PM · #40
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Judi:
... play fair and stick to the rules!!

Just a reminder that the rule involved here is one which requires subjective interpretation, where there can be a legitimate difference of opinion about how much is "too much" of something or other -- it is not the same as (say) "cheating" by entering a picture taken last year.


What if a jury awarded image WAS taken outside the challenge dates? I guess that would be OK, too? Just asking because I think this could be a bigger deal than it appears to be.
 03/27/2012 05:31:51 PM · #41
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Judi:
... play fair and stick to the rules!!

Just a reminder that the rule involved here is one which requires subjective interpretation, where there can be a legitimate difference of opinion about how much is "too much" of something or other -- it is not the same as (say) "cheating" by entering a picture taken last year.


What if a jury awarded image WAS taken outside the challenge dates? I guess that would be OK, too? Just asking because I think this could be a bigger deal than it appears to be.


If you don't need to follow the rules to be judged by the jury...then why don't they include all the images on this site....there are all sorts of images available that way..of all editing rules and rule breaks....! Why do you need to enter that particular challenge when the jury isn't going to follow that particular editing rule set!!!
 03/27/2012 05:45:00 PM · #42
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The jury lacks the power to validate the images it has chosen for its awards. It seems to me disingenuous to disqualify ONE image because it had the misfortune to fail the validation process in the official challenge. Who's to say which, if any, of the other juried-award images would themselves pass muster?


This needs to be bumped.

Judi, please keep in mind that we followed the site rules. . . we voted as if the image was legal within the advanced rule set.
 03/27/2012 05:46:46 PM · #43
Originally posted by scarbrd:
What if a jury awarded image WAS taken outside the challenge dates?


I asked myself the same question.
 03/27/2012 05:47:45 PM · #44
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The jury lacks the power to validate the images it has chosen for its awards. It seems to me disingenuous to disqualify ONE image because it had the misfortune to fail the validation process in the official challenge. Who's to say which, if any, of the other juried-award images would themselves pass muster?


This needs to be bumped.

Judi, please keep in mind that we followed the site rules. . . we voted as if the image was legal within the advanced rule set.


If a ribbon image is found to have broken the ruleset than it is stripped of its ribbon and DQéd. The jury claims to be following the site rules, therefore they should follow the site rules and strip the image of its award and DQ it! How difficult is that to understand?
 03/27/2012 05:48:50 PM · #45
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The jury lacks the power to validate the images it has chosen for its awards. It seems to me disingenuous to disqualify ONE image because it had the misfortune to fail the validation process in the official challenge. Who's to say which, if any, of the other juried-award images would themselves pass muster?

Well, I would think that since the jury process was officially sanctioned as part of the challenge, that the SC could be used to validate the top 5 juried award winners according to the challenge rules as well. Seems reasonable.
 03/27/2012 05:52:11 PM · #46
Originally posted by Judi:
I was led to believe that you still had to follow the site rules for your image to be judged by the jury.


Something that needs to be clarified in the future.

Originally posted by Judi:
You can feel the frustration building over this decision.


What would quell your frustraton?
03/27/2012 05:54:02 PM · #47
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by Judi:
I was led to believe that you still had to follow the site rules for your image to be judged by the jury.


Something that needs to be clarified in the future.

Originally posted by Judi:
You can feel the frustration building over this decision.


What would quell your frustraton?


This isn't the first juried challenge...one would think (judging by the judges chosen) that you would all be smart enough to know that you need to follow the site rules....so to quell my frustration....follow the site rules and DQ the image from the juried side of the challenge.
 03/27/2012 05:56:30 PM · #48
I'm with Judi on this.

I think it takes some off the shine of the jury awards to let a DQ'd image retain its jury status.

I like the occasional jury challenge, but if you can be rewarded for taking advantage of the system, it loses something.

Message edited by author 2012-03-27 18:02:53.
 03/27/2012 06:09:44 PM · #49
I'm with Judi on this too. Having a DQ really sucks but lets say you knew that image would be DQed before entering by altering it to much; Then you wouldn't enter it. Thus the jury wouldn't have that picture to judge...
 03/27/2012 06:43:55 PM · #50
Having entered this challenge impulsively at the last minute I had no knowledge of the Judges Panel or Juried result. For me this becomes a double disaster and I draw no satisfaction from my placement here.
I have posted the following apology in my 'Photographers Comments'

An apology

I did the processing on this back in October and entered it here at the last minute without checking back on the original.
Big mistake!

As the positive votes and comments kept coming in I began to have nagging doubts about the validity of my picture.

But I kept putting off checking the original.

I suppose I was in a kind of denial.

It's ironic that another challenge running at the same time was titled "My Drug".

Inevitably retribution caught up with me and I was DQ'd.

Of course the real punishment for me is letting down my fellow DPCers who voted and commented in good faith. Apologies to them.

I'll be more careful in future and in the meantime, congratulations to the new award winners in this challenge.

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