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03/08/2012 07:47:18 PM · #26
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One was Best of, the other a Free Study. The scores are 6.9833 and 6.9362 respectively. Pretty darn close

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Also a Best of and a Free Study; scores are 6.7787 and 6.8852. Still pretty darn close.

03/08/2012 07:50:51 PM · #27
For me your two photos are not similar at all the "animals in B&W" was a much better entry. But one of the main reasons for the scoring difference is the types of challenges you entered them in.

I have a similar situation with these two similar photos:

This one I entered in the best of 2011 with 400 entries and got a 6.4
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This one I entered in the "From a distance" challenge with 97 entries, I got a ribbon and a 6.9
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I am thinking both of our scores for the free study challenges would have been higher if they were in a smaller more specific challenge.
03/08/2012 07:57:15 PM · #28
While I agree that the type of challenge can certainly affect the way people vote, when comparing these two photos, I would have still scored them the same way even if they had been in the same challenge. Others have already touched on the reasons why, the first photo really is technically much better than the second.
03/08/2012 08:07:02 PM · #29
Originally posted by Melethia:

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One was Best of, the other a Free Study. The scores are 6.9833 and 6.9362 respectively. Pretty darn close


I should hope so. It's the same damn picture. Gotta love the canyon-size loopholes in the rules.
03/08/2012 08:18:02 PM · #30
Originally posted by Giles_uk:

i and im sure others do vote cat images down in fs etc but in animal b/w i allowed my -1 prejudice against cats picks tobe put to one side, and before all you feline feelers jump on me i vote them down because seems a bit lazy snapping a lounging cat. getout there and shoot something new and exciting :) let the back lash come :)


OK, I'll bite :-)

Here are a couple of my more recent shots of lounging cats:
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Would you vote these lower just because they're cats? I would hope not. Mind you, they probably should be voted low because they're not that good but not because they're cats. Now, voting lower horse shots is understandable.

03/08/2012 08:38:23 PM · #31
Originally posted by GeneralE:

To get a cat to sit still in good light for more than a couple of minutes while you jam a lens up close to its face takes good luck (or kitty valium).

You need to learn the techniques of David Terry (' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/31.gif', '/') + 1) . ' dwterry)...

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03/08/2012 09:11:58 PM · #32
First and second place in the same challenge:

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03/08/2012 10:00:57 PM · #33
Originally posted by lnede:

I entered almost identicle pictures of my cats in 2 different challenges as an experiment.

The first one was "Bogie" in the "Animals in Black and White" Challenge. It ended up with a 6.7178, 14th place, 92% percentile.
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The Second one was "Stanley" in the February "Free Study". It ended up with a a 5.59, 195th place, 34% percentile.
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I have learned from this that:
1)The picture's correllation to the challenge subject is extremely important.
2)Voters generally do not grade pet photos very well unless it is directly related to the subject of the challenge.
3 Animal lovers vote in animal challenges and so there are higher scores for pet pictures. The general population does not necessarily see the same "beauty" of a pet picture when entered in a Free Study challenge.
4)There is definitely an observer bias unrelated to picture quality when voting on pictures of equal quality.
5)Therefore, I do not know if Bogie's picture was not as good as the score or if Stanley's picture is not as bad as its score! I guess I will just take the average of the two!!!


i gave your Free Study entry a higher score (by 1 point) than the B&W Animal entry
03/08/2012 10:06:05 PM · #34
Different photographers, different processing, same vulture, both ribboned within a week or so of each other:

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Did Oz get the higher score because:

1. He was in an "animals" challenge, or

2. His pose was better, or

3. His processing was better?

Comes to that, I'm curious which of the processing techniques most respondents prefer...

R.
03/08/2012 10:33:37 PM · #35
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Different photographers, different processing, same vulture, both ribboned within a week or so of each other:

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Did Oz get the higher score because:

1. He was in an "animals" challenge, or

2. His pose was better, or

3. His processing was better?

Comes to that, I'm curious which of the processing techniques most respondents prefer...

R.


That's interesting, because when I now compare them side by side, I would say that nicky's is a better image (oz's is still amazing) and I would vote it the higher of the two... but as it is, I gave both of them 9's. Perhaps if nicky's was in the animals challenge, I would've given it a 10?? I don't know. I'm not really sure why I didn't give it a 10 anyway lol
03/08/2012 10:33:57 PM · #36
My feeling is that the Oz picture has a more compelling and apropos composition of a vulture, and the processing, the stark contrast adds to the drama.

The Nicky shot has a softer, tighter composition which lends to an almost empathetic reaction towards the scavenging beast, and this is further softened by the lush sepia tones-smooth-as-powder processing, which, may in fact create some sort of "juxtaposition" of theme and presentation, some "sympathy for the devil" or perhaps some removing of right or wrong from the equation altogether, to view the animal as simply an animal. It may be the more sophisticated shot...

All that being said, Nicky's shot did fantastically well and ribboned, despite the perceived penchant of the "average" voter favoring the more literal take on the portrayal of the vulture.(which in fact is borne out by the higher score of Oz's shot, as you pointed out.)
03/08/2012 10:59:15 PM · #37
I liked the DOF in OZ's shot which lent to the detail in the feathering and better detail thru out. I didn't like the shadowing element Nicky's had across the back of the vulture and didn't think the sepia toning lent to as well because of the shadowing. I gave Oz a 10 cause I felt it was one of the best in the respective challenge and gave Nicky a 7 because of the reasons I gave above. But still thought it was a strong photo.
03/10/2012 07:09:20 PM · #38
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Different photographers, different processing, same vulture, both ribboned within a week or so of each other:

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Did Oz get the higher score because:

1. He was in an "animals" challenge, or

2. His pose was better, or

3. His processing was better?

Comes to that, I'm curious which of the processing techniques most respondents prefer...

R.


Great comparison shots. They are both great. I like Nicky's version better. Just personal preference.


Message edited by author 2012-03-10 19:10:04.
03/10/2012 07:52:55 PM · #39
Originally posted by vawendy:

Most wildlife images are going to lose against an Icelandic landscape, for example.

What's wrong with that? ;)
03/10/2012 07:57:28 PM · #40
Originally posted by sjhuls:

For me your two photos are not similar at all the "animals in B&W" was a much better entry. But one of the main reasons for the scoring difference is the types of challenges you entered them in.

The second is much better. In the first one the sky competes with the the people, the second is about the people. I don't think these two are the same as in Deb's examples.
03/10/2012 08:03:51 PM · #41
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Comes to that, I'm curious which of the processing techniques most respondents prefer...

R.

I prefer Nicky's, there is more focus on the eyes and the head, that makes it less busy. I like the light.
03/10/2012 08:19:47 PM · #42
Originally posted by lnede:


The first one was "Bogie" in the "Animals in Black and White" Challenge. It ended up with a 6.7178, 14th place, 92% percentile.
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The Second one was "Stanley" in the February "Free Study". It ended up with a a 5.59, 195th place, 34% percentile.
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Message edited by author 2012-03-10 20:20:47.
03/10/2012 08:26:48 PM · #43
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Originally posted by lnede:


The first one was "Bogie" in the "Animals in Black and White" Challenge. It ended up with a 6.7178, 14th place, 92% percentile.
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The Second one was "Stanley" in the February "Free Study". It ended up with a a 5.59, 195th place, 34% percentile.
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Don't underestimate the power of cut whiskers (and catchlights!)
03/10/2012 08:28:31 PM · #44
Originally posted by yanko:


Don't underestimate the power of cut whiskers (and catchlights!)

They are not cut. Kitty came us like that, I think lack of nutrition... They grow up later. I would never cut wiskers, not for a challenge... however, that cat is dead after one year... with truly my fault :(

********

Power of catchlight ;)
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Message edited by author 2012-03-10 20:30:44.
03/10/2012 08:37:15 PM · #45
I know they are not cut. Just teasing you. :P

ETA: Sorry to hear about your cat. :(

Message edited by author 2012-03-10 20:37:43.
03/10/2012 10:57:45 PM · #46
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Different photographers, different processing, same vulture, both ribboned within a week or so of each other:

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Did Oz get the higher score because:

1. He was in an "animals" challenge, or

2. His pose was better, or

3. His processing was better?

Comes to that, I'm curious which of the processing techniques most respondents prefer...

R.


Both amazing shots, but I gave Nicky's a 10 (only 10 I gave in that challenge) and Oz's a 9. I prefer the soft-yet-clear finish to the oh-so-sharp.

As for the cats, I gave them each a 7. The quality of the Bogie shot is probably better, but Stanley is so very appealing.
03/11/2012 03:15:46 AM · #47
Originally posted by jomari:



As for the cats, I gave them each a 7. The quality of the Bogie shot is probably better, but Stanley is so very appealing.


Personally, I think they're the same cat except that in the Stanley shot the zipper is pulled all the way up.
03/11/2012 05:14:21 AM · #48
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by jomari:



As for the cats, I gave them each a 7. The quality of the Bogie shot is probably better, but Stanley is so very appealing.


Personally, I think they're the same cat except that in the Stanley shot the zipper is pulled all the way up.

LOL :)
03/11/2012 07:31:05 AM · #49
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by jomari:



As for the cats, I gave them each a 7. The quality of the Bogie shot is probably better, but Stanley is so very appealing.


Personally, I think they're the same cat except that in the Stanley shot the zipper is pulled all the way up.


Close. Brother and sister from the same feral mother, but different litters!

Thanks to all for the feedback. I have tempered my opinion somewhat, but I still feel that my general premise is correct.
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