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 08/04/2004 10:47:49 PM · #1
Hi, I'm new.

I went out to shoot a bunch of pictures this evening, drooling at the anticipation of taking them back to my new editing software (PSE) to fix em up and be proud...but every single picture was super grainy like this one:



What's going on? I know, I'm putting my ignorance on display for everybody to see...but I really need some help here! I don't want this to happen again.

I am using a modest camera, to say the least (Canon A40), but that does not explain this graininess.

Thanks for your help!

Message edited by author 2004-08-04 22:48:50.
 08/04/2004 10:49:31 PM · #2
Is the camera's ISO setting adjustable? This noise is sometimes an artifact of high 400-1600 ISO settings.
 08/04/2004 10:50:05 PM · #3
What settings was it taken at, and what did you do to it? YOu're camera is better then that.
 08/04/2004 10:51:13 PM · #4
Looks like one of two things... either it was shot at high ISO, or was underexposed and brightened quite a bit in editing.
 08/04/2004 10:52:16 PM · #5
Okay...um...crap. ISO 400. Is this the problem?
Should I just keep it set at 100 most of the time?

Also, is there anything that can be done now?
 08/04/2004 10:52:45 PM · #6
Tow items to check: 1st. image size. Go for the max and 2, the iso setting. Fix it.
 08/04/2004 10:53:28 PM · #7
Was the camera very warm, say from setting in a hot car for several hours?
Higher temps cause more noise in the image sensor and processing electronics.
 08/04/2004 10:53:35 PM · #8
This picture is straight from the camera...no editing.
 08/04/2004 10:54:41 PM · #9
The 400 ISO is the problem. And as pointed out, if the camera was very warm, the problem will be worse.
 08/04/2004 10:54:49 PM · #10
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Okay...um...crap. ISO 400. Is this the problem?
Should I just keep it set at 100 most of the time? Also, is there anything that can be done now?


Yeah, I always shoot at ISO 100. Any other setting introduces too much noise on my camera.
 08/04/2004 10:55:29 PM · #11
So...keep it at 100?
 08/04/2004 10:55:37 PM · #12
Looking at that bright spot on the picture, it looks like it was overexposed and you adjusted the levels pretty far. That will do it.
 08/04/2004 10:56:15 PM · #13
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
So...keep it at 100?


If you have 50, use it.
 08/04/2004 10:57:10 PM · #14
Nope...no editing, the picture is straight from the camera. I guess it was the ISO setting.

Is it rescuable or do I have to get run over by another train?
 08/04/2004 10:58:10 PM · #15
I keep mine at 100 99.9% of the time. The only time I raise it is if I'm shooting in low light and still need a somewhat fast shutter. Also make sure you're shooting at high quality.
 08/04/2004 10:59:47 PM · #16
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Nope...no editing, the picture is straight from the camera. I guess it was the ISO setting.

Is it rescuable or do I have to get run over by another train?


neat image or the dust and scratches filter in Photoshop might help. Be very careful with dust and scratches, it doesn't take much. After that you might need to USM it too.
 08/04/2004 11:00:20 PM · #17
I have a Cannon A80 and I keepit at 50 if I can at all help it. Everything else is grain city! I've used NeatImage to remove some grain from a pic that I took at 200 speed. It helped for that picture.
 08/04/2004 11:01:07 PM · #18
Buy a copy of NeatImage to help clean up noisy images. Download a freeware version at:
//www.neatimage.com
 08/04/2004 11:05:54 PM · #19
Thanks for all your help, everyone! I'll let you know how it turns out once it's been NeatImaged...
 08/04/2004 11:07:04 PM · #20
Here it is ran through the Demo of Neat Image on Default settings. With the original picture, some fine tuning and the full version of Neat Image, I'm sure it could look a lot better.
08/04/2004 11:19:48 PM · #21
Thanks, Matt...I downloaded the demo and gave it a whirl too.

Wow! Talk about a difference!

Old:


New:


How do you guys/gals use NeatImage? Before or after Photoshopping it? Any other tips with NeatImage...I'm just blown away!
 08/04/2004 11:26:12 PM · #22
I've mainly used it for the sky. In images like this, the sky was really grainy.


You can only save as jpeg in the demo. and for the challenges, since the images are limited to 640 pixels thats fine, but on the full image it's a pretty low quality jpeg. I might buy the full version just for that reason.

Message edited by author 2004-08-04 23:27:04.
 08/04/2004 11:30:39 PM · #23
Those NeatImage versions are great! I knew there was a great composition hiding behind the grain....
 08/05/2004 01:18:00 AM · #24
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Thanks, Matt...I downloaded the demo and gave it a whirl too.

Wow! Talk about a difference!

Old:


New:


How do you guys/gals use NeatImage? Before or after Photoshopping it? Any other tips with NeatImage...I'm just blown away!


My first tip is, read the manual. :-) Seriously, though, it tells you a lot of important stuff. You can read it online but I personally preferred to download the PDF. //www.neatimage.com/userguide.html

I use Neat Image on the image straight from the camera most of the time. The main thing is, don't do sharpening (unsharp mask) or resizing before running Neat Image, it makes the noise much worse and more unpredictable. The Neat Image sharpening filter is very good also, just adjust the slider when you're tweaking the NI settings. You can buy the basic Home version for like US$30 I think, a good investment IMO. If you get the "+" version you will also get a Photoshop filter.

Always save as a TIFF or BMP file from Neat Image so you don't lose quality by saving as a JPEG. The demo version only saves as low quality JPEGs so it's better to buy at least the Home version for that reason.

DON'T OVERDO THE NEATIMAGING!!!! :-) Friendly reminder from the anti-plastic looking images group. Lots of people turn the luminance noise removal level up too high (the manual recommends not much above 60% or so) and then other people see the images and go "Ugh! Neat Image sucks because it makes stuff look like plastic and removes all the detail."

Zoom to 100% and use the preview carefully as you're tweaking the NI settings. If you press the mouse button on the preview square for a second, the original image is shown until you release the button, very useful for comparing the changes your settings are making.

If your image doesn't have any big flat smooth featureless areas, Neat Image won't be able to do a calibration from that 'regular image' and you should use a camera noise profile. You can download camera noise profiles from //www.neatimage.com/profiles.html or you can make your own from the calibration charts if you want a tiny bit more accuracy.

Some people like to use Neat Image, then in Photoshop they load the original image, putting the NeatImaged version in a layer above that. Then use a layer mask to make only the areas where noise reduction is really needed opaque in the NeatImaged layer (skies, etc. are most common). They say this improves the detail of the other ares. I haven't tried this but in comparing a carefully NeatImaged version with the original I never prefer the original. You don't have to lose detail, but if there's a ton of noise and you are having trouble preserving detail in parts of the image you might give this a try.

Have fun! I sure am. I just got Neat Image last week and am still learning how best to use it. Let us know if you learn any useful tips or strategies.
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