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02/21/2012 09:33:23 AM · #1
I keep looking at my challenge entry, over and over again throughout the day (and days that have passed).

When I first submitted it, it seemed to be ok.

But now, the more I look at it, the more I feel like I have to fix it.

I know I have the option to unsubmit and then resubmit a photo prior to the challenge beginning. However, I do not want to do this. I am going with my initial entry.

I'm sure this is normal, as *we* tend to be our own worst critics. And like I've said before, I am looking for constructive criticism on my photo more than it scoring well.

But I can't shake this anxiety. I'm such a dork. LOL.

Guess truth will be told in the coming days.
02/21/2012 09:37:24 AM · #2
What, you mean you had some illusion you were a good photographer before you joined DPC? - Hahahahaha!

Yeah, I used to be like that, all confident and happy taking my rubbish photos, thinking they had some artistic merit. But then I discovered DPC and all that changed.

The first challenge came along and totally destroyed my self-belief. So I sold my camera gear and took up sky-diving. It's less stressful.
02/21/2012 09:38:47 AM · #3
Originally posted by JH:

What, you mean you had some illusion you were a good photographer before you joined DPC? - Hahahahaha!

Yeah, I used to be like that, all confident and happy taking my rubbish photos, thinking they had some artistic merit. But then I discovered DPC and all that changed.

The first challenge came along and totally destroyed my self-belief. So I sold my camera gear and took up sky-diving. It's less stressful.


LMAO... I was thinking about taking up bungee jumping...

Maybe I should go while I still have the chance.

HAHA :)
02/21/2012 09:44:03 AM · #4
I tend to second guess myself a lot as well. I tweak and tweak and retweak trying to get the "wow" out of it and often the end result is a mess. When tha6t happens, I sometimes begin again with new edit from the original. Sometimes that does the trick other times it convinces me that my first instinct was correct. Popular appeal is often a crapshoot anyway.

One thing that is a useful learning tool is to establish a small feedback group with several other members. You'll get blunt but well intentioned feedback on your potential entries, and often editing suggestions that can help. Most members will skip voting on any entries we've given feedback on, unless they feel they can still vote without bias. It's an honor system thing, but I think it works.
02/21/2012 09:47:01 AM · #5
Heh. Same for me, John! I thought I would be the next Annie Leibovitz! The brevity of that illusion was almost nonexistent! :P

Folk here are normally pretty good at critiquing entries before the challenge behind the scenes via PM. I can give you my two cents if you'd like.
02/21/2012 10:03:28 AM · #6
I was wondering about that "before challenge critique", as I have seen people here do it before. I just don't want to associate with the trolls around here, and take their advice on anything, and end up bombing worse than I would have beforehand. lol.

Seriously though, I do appreciate all the input from the members I have associated with thus far. This place seems to be pretty well rounded.

@ Yo_Spiff: I know that when I am editing pictures for hanging on the wall, for family handouts, or for my own personal pleasure, I do the same thing you mentioned. I will tweak and tweak, sometimes it ends up a mess, other times, I LOVE IT. There are times when I will make multiple attempts from a copy of the original.

@ NiallOTuama: I will keep the PM in mind for future entries.

Thanks guys!
02/21/2012 10:15:02 AM · #7
Good luck with your image. Don't stress out about it. There are plenty challenges to enter. If you get knocked down pick yourself up and try again and if you score high don't get a big head because 21.gif Gyaban will destroy your best score anyway. LOL
02/21/2012 10:18:49 AM · #8
You can ask for advice on your image by putting it in your workshop (which only you can view) and PM a person the link to it so they can see it also.
02/21/2012 10:29:31 AM · #9
I say stress, watch, stay up late, vote, comment, laugh, cry and kick yourself in the bum! It's all apart of DPC!!! ;P

02/21/2012 10:34:54 AM · #10
Originally posted by dyridings:

I just don't want to associate with the trolls around here, and take their advice on anything, and end up bombing worse than I would have beforehand. lol.

I think there are actually very few trolls. Most of what we perceive as trollish voting is from people who have very different criteria for what they like, and they also believe in using the entire scale regularly. For instance, a member may value emotional content over technical perfection and will give a 3 to even the most outstanding setup shot of wine glasses, because it just does not speak to them in any way. I do think there are some genuine trolls, but that is rare among paying members.

I do there ARE some real troll voters, however. I think we occasionally get tactical voters in the open challenges. Someone joins with a free membership and thinks they are being clever and increasing their own performance by low voting others entries.

Message edited by author 2012-02-21 10:35:48.
02/21/2012 10:43:05 AM · #11
Most important thing (and the hardest thing to do) is to avoid taking ANY vote or comment on your image(s) as some kind of measure of your self worth or an indication of your technical and artistic skill as a photographer. It took me a long time to accept this reality. The best way to gain value from DPC is to find a way to have fun by appreciating the artistic efforts of others and trying to learn something new every day. I recommend ignoring anyone who irritates you. Avoid those people like the plague. (I've seen many come and go.) Developing a thick skin is almost impossible, but essential to survival. It took me 5 years to understand this..... and I still find myself repeating this pep talk to myself on occasion.
02/21/2012 10:47:59 AM · #12
You're doomed.
02/21/2012 10:49:39 AM · #13
Calm down dear. Don,t worry about how you are doing re voting ,this site will really help you to get more out of your images if you let it.
The folks here will always help you out and as you have seen there are many with much experience. A pm to a member will always get a response (well it always has in my case) and don,t forget to have fun on the way.I also think that loads is learnt by viewing others entries.
Please don,t be upset if the reaction to your challenge shot is not what you expected.
02/21/2012 10:54:15 AM · #14
But most of take no notice of Johanna21_N.gif tanguera she knows nowt.
02/21/2012 10:57:22 AM · #15
In my experience, if you focus on your technicals you can always pick it apart, and you'll always see flaws in it if you're trying to view it through the eyes of others, but if it means something to you or speaks to you in a special way, nothing really matters. For me those images are few and far between, but there's no second-guessing those.
02/21/2012 11:04:13 AM · #16
Thanks to all who have responded! I plan to have a fun time here, but I wouldn't mind learning a thing or two, or twelve. :)

I don't usually take things seriously... especially when it comes to people voting on my things. There are people who will like things, there are people who will hate things, and there will be people who will not get it. And all is ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I do believe there are things that I can learn from many people here. And I always try to keep an open mind.

@ bohemka: Every image I have ever edited is meaningful to me. I take hundreds (if not thousands) of pictures any given month, but the ones I chose to edit are those that "speak" to me. If other people can't appreciate my work, then it's their opinion. If they can't "see" what I am trying to portray, again, it's their opinion.

I've always held true to myself with regards to this... the images I create, I appreciate. As for anyone else, if they like it, great... if they hate it, oh well.

:)

I really do appreciate all the comments from everyone here. You are all extremely talented, and I know I can learn something from each of you (and I plan to) :)


02/21/2012 11:46:29 AM · #17
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Most of what we perceive as trollish voting is from people who have very different criteria for what they like, and they also believe in using the entire scale regularly.


I'm new here, but I believe in using the entire scale. I've only voted in one challenge so far, but I tried to look at all the photos, and get my average around 5-5.5. I was a little low my first time out, but if in the future I can get it between that scale, I'll be happy and feel that I've done a good job voting. On that note, I find it much easier to give out low scores rather than higher ones. To elicit a 9 or 10 would take something I look at immediately and just know it resonates. I would than check to see if it meets my interpretation of the challenge description and move it down a little bit if it doesn't.

I plan on entering my first challenge today and I know the feeling you mentioned. All I can do at work (not photography related), is think about the submission I plan on making tonight.

CS

Message edited by author 2012-02-21 12:03:36.
02/21/2012 12:17:38 PM · #18
1. If you want to start a small feedback group before a challenge, you definitely do not have to worry about trolls. I have found that anyone who cares enough to volunteer to help really wants to help. They will give their opinion, advice, etc, and you decide which pieces are worthwhile and which are to be ignored. I have learned a lot over the years by seeking out people and asking advice. It's a wonderful way to gain a difference perspective.

2. Trolls only occur during voting. Whether they have a definite reason for low balling your score that you don't understand, or whether they're doing it to increase their own vote, doesn't really matter. They exist. They are few and far between, and they're part of DPC. We love to complain about them. It gives us a reason -- something we can blame for our low score. But pretty much those people are staying consistent, so it all seems to even out in the end.

3. Best piece of advice I have is to only compete against yourself. When I first started on DPC, I paid attention to my first score and my placement in the challenge. Next challenge, I tried to see if I could beat myself. Did I get a higher average? Did I place higher percentage-wise in the challenge? I still consider a shot a success when I manage to beat my own average.

Don't be anxious -- looking, editing, reediting, reediting again is very common. That's probably why I don't shoot until the last day or two of a challenge -- I spend too much time rethinking! :)
02/21/2012 12:22:27 PM · #19
Originally posted by vawendy:

1. If you want to start a small feedback group before a challenge, you definitely do not have to worry about trolls. I have found that anyone who cares enough to volunteer to help really wants to help. They will give their opinion, advice, etc, and you decide which pieces are worthwhile and which are to be ignored. I have learned a lot over the years by seeking out people and asking advice. It's a wonderful way to gain a difference perspective.

2. Trolls only occur during voting. Whether they have a definite reason for low balling your score that you don't understand, or whether they're doing it to increase their own vote, doesn't really matter. They exist. They are few and far between, and they're part of DPC. We love to complain about them. It gives us a reason -- something we can blame for our low score. But pretty much those people are staying consistent, so it all seems to even out in the end.

3. Best piece of advice I have is to only compete against yourself. When I first started on DPC, I paid attention to my first score and my placement in the challenge. Next challenge, I tried to see if I could beat myself. Did I get a higher average? Did I place higher percentage-wise in the challenge? I still consider a shot a success when I manage to beat my own average.

Don't be anxious -- looking, editing, reediting, reediting again is very common. That's probably why I don't shoot until the last day or two of a challenge -- I spend too much time rethinking! :)


This is good advice, especially around collecting some advise prior to entering. We often get so focused on a specific feature of a photo or technique, that we miss the big stuff.

One thought on her comment around trolls....with the scores and ribbons she has collected in the past year or so, any vote under 7 is a troll to 21_F.gif vawendy ;-P
02/21/2012 12:23:02 PM · #20
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Most of what we perceive as trollish voting is from people who have very different criteria for what they like, and they also believe in using the entire scale regularly.


I'm new here, but I believe in using the entire scale. I've only voted in one challenge so far, but I tried to look at all the photos, and get my average around 5-5.5. I was a little low my first time out, but if in the future I can get it between that scale, I'll be happy and feel that I've done a good job voting. On that note, I find it much easier to give out low scores rather than higher ones. To elicit a 9 or 10 would take something I look at immediately and just know it resonates. I would than check to see if it meets my interpretation of the challenge description and move it down a little bit if it doesn't.

I plan on entering my first challenge today and I know the feeling you mentioned. All I can do at work (not photography related), is think about the submission I plan on making tonight.

CS


I guess I don't use the entire scale, because I don't see many photos that are worthy (or unworthy :) of a 1, 2, 3.

I guess I figure an average photo is something that Uncle Dave could do with his point and shoot. So my voting average is a little above 6, because I think most of the photos here are better than my uncle Dave's. :)

But everyone has their own way of voting. Just make sure you avoid the temptation of comparing the score you're receiving to the score you're giving when you vote. It's hard in the beginning to separate the two. "my photo is at 5.3, this one is much worse than mine, so I'll give it a 4." It's comparing apples and oranges, and your score might vary widely throughout the challenge. Ignore what you're receiving -- pretend you don't even have an image in when voting. That's the easiest way to be unbiased. (Some people won't vote on challenges that they've entered, just so that there's no conflict of interest. I find that if you can be completely unbiased, and not compare your image to others, it's an interesting learning experience.)
02/21/2012 12:25:17 PM · #21
Originally posted by bassbone:

[quote=vawendy]

One thought on her comment around trolls....with the scores and ribbons she has collected in the past year or so, any vote under 7 is a troll to 21_F.gif vawendy ;-P


hahaha!! I actually only consider trolls to be 1s and 2s. (some people think 3s, but I figure there's a reason for 3s. :)

However, the first time I was at a 7 in a challenge, early on I was hit by what I was sure was a troll!!! The score dropped so far! It was a vote of 5. :)

I can only dream of what Gyaban and Roz thought when watching their scores be 8+ and getting a troll!
02/21/2012 12:35:10 PM · #22
Originally posted by vawendy:

I guess I figure an average photo is something that Uncle Dave could do with his point and shoot. So my voting average is a little above 6, because I think most of the photos here are better than my uncle Dave's

I tend to consider a 3 to be the average snapshot taken by Uncle Dave. But my average cast is in the same neighborhood as yours. I think I just tend to find something to appreciate about many images. Might be an interesting exercise to compare our votes after a challenge sometime and examine our reasons for those votes.
02/21/2012 12:35:21 PM · #23
Originally posted by vawendy:


I guess I don't use the entire scale, because I don't see many photos that are worthy (or unworthy :) of a 1, 2, 3.

I guess I figure an average photo is something that Uncle Dave could do with his point and shoot. So my voting average is a little above 6, because I think most of the photos here are better than my uncle Dave's. :)


What I did, is look at all the photos in the challenge, and try to baseline average within the context of those photos, and not uncle Dave. The problem with this method is I will give out twos and threes with a little more consistency than others, but if my voting criteria is applied consistently across all photos, it won't do anything to the overall placement of the respective photos, just the overall score.

CS
02/21/2012 12:39:33 PM · #24
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

Originally posted by vawendy:


I guess I don't use the entire scale, because I don't see many photos that are worthy (or unworthy :) of a 1, 2, 3.

I guess I figure an average photo is something that Uncle Dave could do with his point and shoot. So my voting average is a little above 6, because I think most of the photos here are better than my uncle Dave's. :)


What I did, is look at all the photos in the challenge, and try to baseline average within the context of those photos, and not uncle Dave. The problem with this method is I will give out twos and threes with a little more consistency than others, but if my voting criteria is applied consistently across all photos, it won't do anything to the overall placement of the respective photos, just the overall score.

CS


Yup. Consistency is the key.
02/21/2012 12:40:06 PM · #25
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by vawendy:

I guess I figure an average photo is something that Uncle Dave could do with his point and shoot. So my voting average is a little above 6, because I think most of the photos here are better than my uncle Dave's

I tend to consider a 3 to be the average snapshot taken by Uncle Dave. But my average cast is in the same neighborhood as yours. I think I just tend to find something to appreciate about many images. Might be an interesting exercise to compare our votes after a challenge sometime and examine our reasons for those votes.


That would be fun!
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