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01/25/2012 10:12:17 PM · #1 |
This is pretty cool.
Out of the blue, someone saw my blog and liked the photo I use at the top, which was one of 2008 Free Study entries:
He owns a small hotel near DC and wants a print to hang over the fireplace in the lobby:
He said the space is 35" wide.
He'll get it framed, so this is just for the print. I figure a 24x16 print will do it, leaving a little wall space and adding in maybe 4" of matting and frame on each side.
He's asked what I'd charge, and that's where you come in. |
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01/25/2012 10:13:59 PM · #2 |
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01/25/2012 10:21:31 PM · #3 |
Hell we're talkin about fine art here....atleast $5.000....ok now on a serious note I think $500 for a max and $250.00 for a min...It also may get you some buisness in the future
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01/25/2012 10:42:54 PM · #4 |
| I've sold canvas prints of this size in the neighborhood of $200-250. For an art paper print without frame it would be less, maybe 125-150. |
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01/25/2012 10:43:40 PM · #5 |
If you are asking this question I am assuming you have never sold a print before or have sold very few. A print this size (no matting or frame) will be relatively cheap. Also, I am assuming that if you do not know what to charge then you don't sell your photographs professionally. Please correctly me if I'm wrong here.
That being said, find out what it cost you to make a very nice print of it and just double or maybe even triple the price. If I am correct and you do not sell your prints professionally it should be an honor to know and to tell your friends and family that one of your images was sought out and placed in public view for years to come. That in itself would be enough for me.
That or I would sell at close to cost and ask in exchange if I could put my business card with it. That's if you want to sell more in the future?? Could be a revenue generator for you instead of a one and done sale.
I may be way off base. If so sorry for guessing at what your situation is. |
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01/25/2012 10:46:54 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
I've sold canvas prints of this size in the neighborhood of $200-250. For an art paper print without frame it would be less, maybe 125-150. |
Whats an art paper print that you are describing usually cost? I'm assuming that a something that is from a decent lab (maybe not the best) is what a place like this would be happy with. Archival inks and paper in a 24"X16" size. Should be in the $15-$25 range of cost correct?
Message edited by author 2012-01-25 22:47:41. |
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01/25/2012 10:49:38 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by SEG:
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
I've sold canvas prints of this size in the neighborhood of $200-250. For an art paper print without frame it would be less, maybe 125-150. |
Whats an art paper print that you are describing usually cost? I'm assuming that a something that is from a decent lab (maybe not the best) is what a place like this would be happy with. Archival inks and paper in a 24"X16" size. Should be in the $15-$25 range of cost correct? |
That would be about right. |
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01/25/2012 11:02:55 PM · #8 |
Thanks, everyone.
SEG: you're right on target about my situation. I've sold some prints, but not many, and I'm not a pro.
That said, why should any of that matter? He's not buying it from a world-famous photographer, where reputation would bump the price.
Why would I sell for less than what the market will bear? Sure, it's cool to be asked, but I'm enjoying that now anyway. I'm not desperate for the money, but the difference between $150 and $350 is still $200. I'm genuinely asking, not trying to be argumentative. And I'm not trying to be greedy, just get a fair price.
Interestingly, your suggested pricing scheme works out to pretty much what Bear and cowboy suggested. One place I've gotten canvas prints from charges about $100 for a 16x24 print. That'd lead to charging about $250.
Here's another question: do you take where it'll be into account? In a hotel room seems less important than front and center in the lobby, so it'd seem to me you'd charge more for that location.
Thanks again! |
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01/25/2012 11:17:28 PM · #9 |
HI
One way of looking at this is this. Appart from the obvious, ie monney, what do you want out of this transaction?
The Buyer obviously browses the web, otherwise he would not have seen your Photo. (nice by the way). So there is a chance of repeat buisness here. Anything you charge, he can check if it is reaasonable, and the advice seems to be reasonable so far.
Instead of a buisness card, Sign the print, and give your Web Blog, or Web page under your signature. that way anyone looking at the picture will get your buisness contact.
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01/25/2012 11:35:58 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Bpzzr:
HI
One way of looking at this is this. Appart from the obvious, ie monney, what do you want out of this transaction?
The Buyer obviously browses the web, otherwise he would not have seen your Photo. (nice by the way). So there is a chance of repeat buisness here. Anything you charge, he can check if it is reaasonable, and the advice seems to be reasonable so far.
Instead of a buisness card, Sign the print, and give your Web Blog, or Web page under your signature. that way anyone looking at the picture will get your buisness contact. |
Yep - that's why I'm asking here. Seems to be decent consensus, actually.
What I'm looking for is just a fair price. I'm not especially interested in making photography a business - it's my escape from my day job, not my job. :) |
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01/25/2012 11:47:55 PM · #11 |
I would be cautious on price though. I know a lot of people are talking canvas and I agree that it would a great option for the location and space but you said the customer only wants a print and he/she will matte and frame it themselves. Sounds like they are wanting to go cheap on this by getting the bare minimum from you and finding the rest on their own when you are perfectly capable of getting all this put together in a complete package for them. This way all that is left is to hang it and it won't get forgotten about on a corner.
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01/25/2012 11:51:48 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Bpzzr:
Instead of a buisness card, Sign the print, and give your Web Blog, or Web page under your signature. that way anyone looking at the picture will get your buisness contact. |
I agree with this suggestion. I say business card because that just seems like the culture here in New Orleans and surrounding area. You can't walk into a club, bar, or restaurant without seeing art on the wall and everyone of them has a business card in the corner usually with a price written on the card. You buy it off the wall in most places. |
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01/26/2012 12:02:20 AM · #13 |
Thanks again, everyone.
I just sent him an email recommending canvas and asking $215 and also offering art paper for $165. I also sent him small versions of several others of my DC shots because he mentioned he was putting up photos in all the rooms, and I mentioned we could work out a package deal.
BTW, I'm the one who suggested giving him a print and letting him frame it as he likes.
Edited to add: yes, he said he thinks people will want to buy prints, so I'm sure he'll be fine with putting a card under it. I'm not counting on additional sales, but it'd be nice.
Message edited by author 2012-01-26 00:03:22. |
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01/26/2012 12:06:44 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by SEG:
Originally posted by Bpzzr:
Instead of a buisness card, Sign the print, and give your Web Blog, or Web page under your signature. that way anyone looking at the picture will get your buisness contact. |
I agree with this suggestion. I say business card because that just seems like the culture here in New Orleans and surrounding area. You can't walk into a club, bar, or restaurant without seeing art on the wall and everyone of them has a business card in the corner usually with a price written on the card. You buy it off the wall in most places. |
In most of these situations the art is hung for free. I do this in town at a friends restaurant (to help her fill her walls along with about three other artists)and place a business card next to the work. You can get studio prints (canvas) at Canvas on Demand for half price for this purpose. They have a non-abusive comment on the side that it is a studio print. |
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01/26/2012 01:50:45 AM · #15 |
| For that image and this project, I would use a print on metallic paper. It would be stunning. Canvas is going to add a slight amount of texture and will reduce the sparkle and sharpness. Meridian Pro is currently having a sale. 16x24 is a medium size. About $195 for the print, especially if the customer is framing. Signed and numbered would add cachet. |
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01/26/2012 04:26:41 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by SEG:
If you are asking this question I am assuming you have never sold a print before or have sold very few. A print this size (no matting or frame) will be relatively cheap. Also, I am assuming that if you do not know what to charge then you don't sell your photographs professionally. Please correctly me if I'm wrong here.
That being said, find out what it cost you to make a very nice print of it and just double or maybe even triple the price. If I am correct and you do not sell your prints professionally it should be an honor to know and to tell your friends and family that one of your images was sought out and placed in public view for years to come. That in itself would be enough for me.
That or I would sell at close to cost and ask in exchange if I could put my business card with it. That's if you want to sell more in the future?? Could be a revenue generator for you instead of a one and done sale.
I may be way off base. If so sorry for guessing at what your situation is. |
Seg are you a pro!?
Not sure if it was intended but your post reads very discouragingly and somewhat in the vain of leave this to the pros, it's quite patronising in its tone and for a site like this annoyed me.
Well done on that pic it's great hope it comes off and you sell loads
Message edited by author 2012-01-26 04:28:59. |
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01/26/2012 06:18:48 AM · #17 |
I think you'll do fine with your price, and hope that you do place a few more images with him.
In the future, you might want to add a little more. He should be expecting to come out of pocket about $500. Once he has it in place, got a good shot of it and take that to a framer and get a price on the frame. Subtract that from $500 and that should give you a decent benchmark for pricing off-the-shelf prints.
There are things you can do to add value and make more money, but they require a bit of time and commitment.
One thing you might approach him about would be to make some postcards or small prints with the options of 1) he pays you $2/ea and either sells them or gives them away, or 2) he sells them on consignment for you and takes a commission on the sale, paying you for what is sold each month. |
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01/26/2012 09:58:37 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
Seg are you a pro!?
Not sure if it was intended but your post reads very discouragingly and somewhat in the vain of leave this to the pros, it's quite patronising in its tone and for a site like this annoyed me.
Well done on that pic it's great hope it comes off and you sell loads |
Not a pro by a long shot but I have sold a good number of prints over the past few years. Sorry if I came off as discouraging or if it sounded like I had a "leave it to the pro's" additude about it because that is far from the truth.
I usually don't speak up in threads like this because I am not a pro but felt that from his post that I could relate to him as a non professional. Too many times on this site people tend to forget that we are not all professionals and are given professional advice to non professional photographers. We all start somewhere.
Without a store front or popularity behind my prints I don't feel that I can spend $20 on a print and then turn around and sell it for $150 without matting or frame. I sell all my prints frm $6 to $30 dollars (print, backing and matte in a protective sleeve)and have them printed in three different sizes (4x6, 8x12, & 12x18). Most of the prints sold in my area from recognized photographers go for $150-$200 matted and framed so I didn't think I was out of line by suggesting to sell it at a reasonable price or to use it as a promotion tool. There are plenty of photographers in my area selling for around the same price as I am for similar priducts. Print, matte, backing in a sleeve. It was just my opinion and what I would do as a non-professional in my area.
If I gave a price that high for just a print in my area I would not get a call back on that and lose the business because there are a lot of toursit type shots around here. Please don't read into this as a negative comment but what he is selling is a tourist type shot, which in my area are a dime a dozen and I would image in most big cities shots like that are. I have streetcar shots and shots of the city that are synonymous with New Orleans and that you can find on every corner if you wanted to.
Hope I explained myself well here and don't mean to come off as a know it all. Just sharing my personal experience which I hope everyone is doing here.
I'm really a nice guy and don't speak up much on these topics for this reason though. People read too much into text. I need to use more emoticons I guess. :) |
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01/26/2012 10:59:32 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by SEG:
...
Without a store front or popularity behind my prints I don't feel that I can spend $20 on a print and then turn around and sell it for $150 without matting or frame. I sell all my prints frm $6 to $30 dollars (print, backing and matte in a protective sleeve)and have them printed in three different sizes (4x6, 8x12, & 12x18). Most of the prints sold in my area from recognized photographers go for $150-$200 matted and framed so I didn't think I was out of line by suggesting to sell it at a reasonable price or to use it as a promotion tool. ... |
You are only paying attention to your variable costs. Don't forget about your time and the depreciation of your equipment and any other overhead in your business. In the short run, it's possible to ignore fixed costs. As far as that goes, ANY contribution of revenue above variable costs that helps offset fixed costs is helpful. In the long run, all costs need to be covered and hopefully there will be profits.
Yes, in my community, I see photographers selling little photos for a low price (relative to mine). The mass produced stuff, which isn't unique or special, doesn't sell very well. Sometimes, the price one places on one's art communicates "value", or lack thereof, to the customer.
In my gallery, we are definitely trending towards larger and larger prints. These are matted, framed and ready to hang. Turnkey products capture the impulse buyer. Big canvas images have been our mainstay. But, the growth sales trend of framed, matted prints using metallic paper will soon overtake the canvas presentations. Sales of larger images swamp the sum total of all small images.
It's part of my business model to offer signed, numbered, limited edition prints of my proprietary photography. So far, so good. |
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01/26/2012 11:38:31 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by SEG:
...
Without a store front or popularity behind my prints I don't feel that I can spend $20 on a print and then turn around and sell it for $150 without matting or frame. I sell all my prints frm $6 to $30 dollars (print, backing and matte in a protective sleeve)and have them printed in three different sizes (4x6, 8x12, & 12x18). Most of the prints sold in my area from recognized photographers go for $150-$200 matted and framed so I didn't think I was out of line by suggesting to sell it at a reasonable price or to use it as a promotion tool. ... |
You are only paying attention to your variable costs. Don't forget about your time and the depreciation of your equipment and any other overhead in your business. In the short run, it's possible to ignore fixed costs. As far as that goes, ANY contribution of revenue above variable costs that helps offset fixed costs is helpful. In the long run, all costs need to be covered and hopefully there will be profits.
Yes, in my community, I see photographers selling little photos for a low price (relative to mine). The mass produced stuff, which isn't unique or special, doesn't sell very well. Sometimes, the price one places on one's art communicates "value", or lack thereof, to the customer.
In my gallery, we are definitely trending towards larger and larger prints. These are matted, framed and ready to hang. Turnkey products capture the impulse buyer. Big canvas images have been our mainstay. But, the growth sales trend of framed, matted prints using metallic paper will soon overtake the canvas presentations. Sales of larger images swamp the sum total of all small images.
It's part of my business model to offer signed, numbered, limited edition prints of my proprietary photography. So far, so good. |
You are msissing the entire point of my post and are talking as a professional. Jeff (original poster) and myself are not. Overhead in this case is technically zero. Getting ready for the flamers and haters.
Yes, I agree as a professional depreciation of your equipment, building, etc play a big roll. For a person like me it does not. The time spent in processing, taking the shot, etc or not a huge part of my pricing structure. I take pictures becuase I enjoy them and if someone really likes something I do I can offer it to them at an affordable price and a piece of my work is hanging in their office, home, or business and it gives me great pleasure just to know that. If this was my bread and butter then yes, I would need to charge much more. I don't think a lower price equals a lack of value to the customer. I think lower prices as an ametuer propels you into being able to charge more as you learn and grow as a photographer. A great image at a low price by a local artist holds a lot of weight around my town. People love to say, "yeah it's hand signed by a New Orleanian." Price doesn't even come up when they tell friends where they got the print. I have had people fill there entire house with only my images becuase of the price and so that they can brag about it being from a local person that they bought it from. Not some shop on the corner where they have not had an interaction with the artist about their purchase.
All I am trying to say is that everyone's situation is different and members on here tend try to get people to sell images at prices as if they were Van Gohg's at times. When I first started here I asked questions like Jeff's and if I would have taken most of the professional advice I would not have sold any prints at all. Instead I vistied market's, shops, restauraunts, art vendors in the city (not professional galleries)....etc and typed all the prices on the art that I liked in my phone along with details of the image. I sell mine at the median price of all the ones that I looked at.
Jeff, as the origianl poster I would love to know how you feel about the conversation. I am just stating what works for me and wish you the best of luck. Let us know how it turns out. |
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01/26/2012 12:02:35 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by SEG:
Yes, I agree as a professional depreciation of your equipment, building, etc play a big roll. For a person like me it does not. The time spent in processing, taking the shot, etc or not a huge part of my pricing structure. I take pictures becuase I enjoy them and if someone really likes something I do I can offer it to them at an affordable price and a piece of my work is hanging in their office, home, or business and it gives me great pleasure just to know that. If this was my bread and butter then yes, I would need to charge much more. I don't think a lower price equals a lack of value to the customer. I think lower prices as an ametuer propels you into being able to charge more as you learn and grow as a photographer. A great image at a low price by a local artist holds a lot of weight around my town. People love to say, "yeah it's hand signed by a New Orleanian." Price doesn't even come up when they tell friends where they got the print. I have had people fill there entire house with only my images becuase of the price and so that they can brag about it being from a local person that they bought it from. Not some shop on the corner where they have not had an interaction with the artist about their purchase.
All I am trying to say is that everyone's situation is different and members on here tend try to get people to sell images at prices as if they were Van Gohg's at times. When I first started here I asked questions like Jeff's and if I would have taken most of the professional advice I would not have sold any prints at all. Instead I vistied market's, shops, restauraunts, art vendors in the city (not professional galleries)....etc and typed all the prices on the art that I liked in my phone along with details of the image. I sell mine at the median price of all the ones that I looked at. |
+1
It's nice to have a place like DPC to get help researching techniques & whatnot, but ultimately, when you're an amateur like most of us, you have to decide your own costs/satisfaction ratio. There are some people I won't shoot for at any price, yet I gladly give my time and efforts to my church when they do portraits for the people in the neighborhood who have no money. I sell work (By most "pro" standards) inexpensively because it gives me gratification to have my work on someone's wall.
Photography is a labor of love for me......I did some weddings, portraits, real estate photography, product shooting, and the like and I simply don't want to be confined, and pressured, by the normal dictates of professional photography. I want to do what I want, when I want, and if someone likes it and wants to buy it, all the better.
Use your head, and listen to your heart...
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01/26/2012 12:10:49 PM · #22 |
If that photo were mine, I'd be taking a profit of at least $350 after adding on the cost of printing and framing.
But when someone buys one of MY photos, they also win with the whole caché of owning a Slippy.
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01/26/2012 12:25:45 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by SEG:
All I am trying to say is that everyone's situation is different and members on here tend try to get people to sell images at prices as if they were Van Gohg's at times. When I first started here I asked questions like Jeff's and if I would have taken most of the professional advice I would not have sold any prints at all. Instead I vistied market's, shops, restauraunts, art vendors in the city (not professional galleries)....etc and typed all the prices on the art that I liked in my phone along with details of the image. I sell mine at the median price of all the ones that I looked at.
Jeff, as the origianl poster I would love to know how you feel about the conversation. I am just stating what works for me and wish you the best of luck. Let us know how it turns out. |
Except that's not Jeff's situation, it's much more specific than that: he HAS a client in place who wants his work for a commercial use and almost certainly is expecting to pay a fair market value for that use. If Jeff had asked our advice on how to market prints in street fairs in DC, we'd be having a different conversation.
The suggested price range here, for THAT client and THAT usage, is very reasonable. I'll be surprised if the client does not agree.
R.
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01/26/2012 01:21:44 PM · #24 |
I do see your point here Bear and definitely agree with that assesment. Jeff definitely has better work than I do so him asking that may be reasonable.
I was not thinking along the lines of getting every dollar I could out of the situation. I was thiniking more along the lines of what NikonJeb was saying, it's a labor of love and love for the art not the money for me. Granted, I am a human living in America so money is nice but I'm used to selling my prints at a certain price even if it is at a local market or in a local shop as an impulse buy at the counter. If I were to sell a 12X18 print for $30 and a customer approached me because he liked something he saw online without even knowing what prices I sell prints at I would feel bad to sell it to him for $150 just because I know that I can. I think it backs a person selling prints for the first time into a hole for future sales and fairness goes a long way in business.
That's all. I know I'm a low man on the totem pole in the photography world so I will leave the rest of this thread for others to voice opinions unless someone wants to specifically ask me a question.
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01/26/2012 01:41:36 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by SEG:
If I were to sell a 12X18 print for $30 and a customer approached me because he liked something he saw online without even knowing what prices I sell prints at I would feel bad to sell it to him for $150 just because I know that I can. I think it backs a person selling prints for the first time into a hole for future sales and fairness goes a long way in business. |
I am conflicted about pricing, especially when the customer is ordering a print of the web, and I not only don't print it myself, I never even see it. But underpricing work and devaluing your artistic contribution also can back you into a hole, price-wise.
I often use a "sliding-scale" approach to pricing prints -- a corporate or well-off customer can (and should) paye the "full price" (whatever that is), and then you can offer a "substantial" discount to your sister's kid living in a college dorm ...
A rule-of-thumb in the food business* is that the menu price should be roughly three times the cost of the ingredients. I'm planning to go through my DPC Prints gallery and raise my prices to something like 4-6 times the base cost.
*I learned far more working in my university cafeteria than from my classes ... |
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