DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Penn State scandal
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 70, (reverse)
AuthorThread
11/09/2011 10:49:21 PM · #1
surprised no one made a thread yet.

this has been developing for a few days now and it appears that Paterno is out. I never liked Penn State, always been more of a wolverines guy, but I kind of feel bad for Paterno though, what a way to end your legacy.

11/09/2011 11:41:01 PM · #2
Go Blue!...the whole situation is just sad...
11/09/2011 11:46:35 PM · #3
I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who cover up for pedophiles.
11/09/2011 11:52:33 PM · #4
Really? you feel bad for Paterno? I feel bad for the kids who were assaulted as a result of the inaction by Paterno and his peers. If they would have done the right thing and alerted the authorities immediately they could have stopped this at that time, but instead it continued and more kids were hurt. I think that not only should they be fired, I also think that they should all be prosecuted to the full extent possible as accessories to the crimes that were committed. failure to act, when knowing that such heinous crimes were occurring, allowed additional assaults to be committed and thus they should be held responsible. Paterno's "legacy" should be concluded by him living his remaining years in prison - along with all of the others that were involved and did not act to stop this.

11/10/2011 12:22:50 AM · #5
It's Official. They are finished.

Paterno and Spanier Are Out

Message edited by author 2011-11-10 00:23:03.
11/10/2011 12:53:17 AM · #6
Originally posted by mike_311:

surprised no one made a thread yet.

this has been developing for a few days now and it appears that Paterno is out. I never liked Penn State, always been more of a wolverines guy, but I kind of feel bad for Paterno though, what a way to end your legacy.


Which legacy, the football coach legacy or the pedophilia legacy?
11/10/2011 01:36:04 AM · #7
https://www.facebook.com/notes/kevin-fay/a-message-to-penn-state-and-the-public/10101709665663194

Not sure if that link will work on a public forum but another good one is here:

//www.blackshoediaries.com/2011/11/9/2548981/penn-state-scandal-jerry-sandusky-paterno-narrative-lazy-media

I'm not sure if there are other Penn State grads here, if so I don't presume to speak for them and I'm sure I won't change anyone's preconceived opinions on the matter but it is important to see both sides (in regards to Paterno) and I can guess which side will be more prevalent here.

I've read the Grand Jury testimony (the parts that pertain to Paterno...I couldn't read the rest...the acts Sandusky did were deplorable and beyond disgusting). What Paterno knew or didn't know about them is not clear nor is it said that he didn't follow-up on the investigation. I too am angry and don't have the answers but neither do you (general reference, not directed toward anyone in particular) and neither does the media at this point.

The whole situation - the acts of depravity towards the victims, the media speculation, the ensuing riots tonight and also the firing of Paterno without fact or even discussion of his role - is sickening. I hope that the investigation finds the truth and those responsible are held accountable. I do not believe in tearing down someone to sell news without fact.

Anyway, I don't find that there is much value in debating on the internet and the articles I've posted articulate my points much better than I can so I don't plan on following this post, just frustrated and disgusted by the whole situation.

Message edited by author 2011-11-10 01:38:28.
11/10/2011 01:45:07 AM · #8
This bloke's name is really Paterno? What's next? A ham-fisted Presidential aspirant called Mitt? A proverbially addled legislator called Newt? Is no irony too blunt that you 'merican folks can't grasp it? Please, just stop it.
11/10/2011 02:50:49 AM · #9
Plain and simple, all these criminals at the university covered it up because they did not want to give the school a black eye or tarnish the reputation of a so-called "legend". Isn't it strange they had the report for two week but didn't go public with it until he had reached the winningest coach milestone? The whole thing makes me physically ill. I would rather see Ted Bundy released for good behavior than see anyone who abuses children go un-castrated.
11/10/2011 04:55:15 AM · #10
Originally posted by Maverick:

...I hope that the investigation finds the truth and those responsible are held accountable. I do not believe in tearing down someone to sell news without fact...


Since my previous post could certainly be seen as the view of someone who has been solely influenced by this media blitz I will say that I do not have all of the facts and probably have even less factual information than those with an association or interest in the university. I agree with maverick in that I hope that the investigation finds the truth and those responsible are held accountable - all of them - sandusky,those who did not follow through and those that did not launch legal investigation.

I again agree with maverick and the the article in the second link, in that the way that media covers cases such as this is deplorable as it often times does influence the general view of the public to the point of tearing someone down - without fact, without objectivity and all to sell news.

This is not the entirely the case here, however, as Paterno, Mcqueary, Curley, Schultz, and the Administration are not being torn down without fact.

There are enough facts present to determine that there are moral and ethical failures involved here; failures that very may be "cover ups". Failures to the point of criminal accountability. If the coaches did "the right thing" and reported this to their superiors as it appears they did, then i suppose they did take the appropriate first steps but... How can a person witness the event that Mcqueary did and not act immediately to stop it? I do not even mean act physically to stop it(although I would, no matter the cost), but how can you leave the building without calling 911 or the police immediately? how do you just leave a 10 year old boy, defenseless in that situation? To my moral and ethical compass that is nearly as criminal as the crime itself. Beyond that, each person in the chain of command above Mcqueary failed to a point of criminal negligence also. Joe Paterno reported it to his superiors, and even if he did follow up by asking those above him in the the chain of command if the situation was being addressed, the fact is that Sandusky remained at the university. That cannot be mistaken as an event that has been properly addressed.

If one follows the appropriate chain of command at their place of employment and reports that someone stole office supplies, it is feasible that they may receive a warning and may continue their employment, without your knowledge of how the situation was handled behind the scenes. If one reports the rape of a minor, on the other hand, there can be no other rational expectation than for the outcome to result in anything less than dismissal or removal - at a minimum. If the person that committed this act remains on staff and continues along with business as usual, it is clear that the report of the indecent to the superiors did not return acceptable results. It is at this point where taking an alternate course of action, such as involving the police, is the next step, particularly as a person in the role of a coach or teacher. Having this knowledge and not taking additional steps (even if outside the rules of your employer) is at issue. Not ensuring that the incedent was properly handled directly resulted in additional criminal activity and that is where Joe Paterno and the administration are at fault. Poor decisions happen, i get that, but poor decisions which results directly in allowing the criminal activity to continue is criminal in itself.

The laws surrounding this may not allow the judgement that I would hope to see here, I'm not a lawyer so i do not know how this will end up.
I am an ethical man though and abuse of a child, or not acting to stop the abuse of a child both fall into a category with easily defined boundaries separating right and wrong. No matter the influence of the media, there are enough facts present to know which side of the boundary these men are on.
11/10/2011 05:15:15 AM · #11
This is at the heart of the matter...and why I earlier stated the sadness, utmost for the children, but it is a "Shakespearean Tragedy" played out in real life....that in fact to me is one of the most saddest stories in my lifetime.

Originally posted by xakpeet:

Originally posted by Maverick:

...I hope that the investigation finds the truth and those responsible are held accountable. I do not believe in tearing down someone to sell news without fact...


Since my previous post could certainly be seen as the view of someone who has been solely influenced by this media blitz I will say that I do not have all of the facts and probably have even less factual information than those with an association or interest in the university. I agree with maverick in that I hope that the investigation finds the truth and those responsible are held accountable - all of them - sandusky,those who did not follow through and those that did not launch legal investigation.

I again agree with maverick and the the article in the second link, in that the way that media covers cases such as this is deplorable as it often times does influence the general view of the public to the point of tearing someone down - without fact, without objectivity and all to sell news.

This is not the entirely the case here, however, as Paterno, Mcqueary, Curley, Schultz, and the Administration are not being torn down without fact.

There are enough facts present to determine that there are moral and ethical failures involved here; failures that very may be "cover ups". Failures to the point of criminal accountability. If the coaches did "the right thing" and reported this to their superiors as it appears they did, then i suppose they did take the appropriate first steps but... How can a person witness the event that Mcqueary did and not act immediately to stop it? I do not even mean act physically to stop it(although I would, no matter the cost), but how can you leave the building without calling 911 or the police immediately? how do you just leave a 10 year old boy, defenseless in that situation? To my moral and ethical compass that is nearly as criminal as the crime itself. Beyond that, each person in the chain of command above Mcqueary failed to a point of criminal negligence also. Joe Paterno reported it to his superiors, and even if he did follow up by asking those above him in the the chain of command if the situation was being addressed, the fact is that Sandusky remained at the university. That cannot be mistaken as an event that has been properly addressed.

If one follows the appropriate chain of command at their place of employment and reports that someone stole office supplies, it is feasible that they may receive a warning and may continue their employment, without your knowledge of how the situation was handled behind the scenes. If one reports the rape of a minor, on the other hand, there can be no other rational expectation than for the outcome to result in anything less than dismissal or removal - at a minimum. If the person that committed this act remains on staff and continues along with business as usual, it is clear that the report of the indecent to the superiors did not return acceptable results. It is at this point where taking an alternate course of action, such as involving the police, is the next step, particularly as a person in the role of a coach or teacher. Having this knowledge and not taking additional steps (even if outside the rules of your employer) is at issue. Not ensuring that the incedent was properly handled directly resulted in additional criminal activity and that is where Joe Paterno and the administration are at fault. Poor decisions happen, i get that, but poor decisions which results directly in allowing the criminal activity to continue is criminal in itself.

The laws surrounding this may not allow the judgement that I would hope to see here, I'm not a lawyer so i do not know how this will end up.
I am an ethical man though and abuse of a child, or not acting to stop the abuse of a child both fall into a category with easily defined boundaries separating right and wrong. No matter the influence of the media, there are enough facts present to know which side of the boundary these men are on.
11/10/2011 05:43:34 AM · #12
*Read with caution as the accounts recalled in this report are of graphic nature.*

if you can stomach it, here's the grand jury report. paterno and spanier are just two of many who should be held accountable.

i don't sandusky will live out his days comfortably, let alone be able to sleep without one eye open.
11/10/2011 05:51:39 AM · #13
Paterno's been revered as a demi-god for far too long. He should have retired a decade ago, and he could have with honor & dignity. Instead, he is culpable simply by his lack of involvement in doing the right thing. The Penn State football program has needed to be revamped and updated for a long time. This is NOT the way it should happen. I'm not too happy that this is my state's contribution to college football. And people wonder why I hate sports....
11/10/2011 10:07:39 AM · #14
I agree. I don't understand how anyone could possibly feel sorry for him. I also don't understand why the Penn State students are rioting and mad that he was fired. This is sick and why is it like this? Because it's Penn State? Because of Football? I mean what other reason would people have for feeling sorry for him. If some random joe would have admitted they KNEW about child molestation and didnt say anything to the police, it would be a different story. This whole thing is just disgusting. Everyone who is sad for Paterno must have been butt plugged themselves and since nobody told the authorities on their situation I guess they have to seek vengence somewhere.

Originally posted by xakpeet:

Really? you feel bad for Paterno? I feel bad for the kids who were assaulted as a result of the inaction by Paterno and his peers. If they would have done the right thing and alerted the authorities immediately they could have stopped this at that time, but instead it continued and more kids were hurt. I think that not only should they be fired, I also think that they should all be prosecuted to the full extent possible as accessories to the crimes that were committed. failure to act, when knowing that such heinous crimes were occurring, allowed additional assaults to be committed and thus they should be held responsible. Paterno's "legacy" should be concluded by him living his remaining years in prison - along with all of the others that were involved and did not act to stop this.
11/10/2011 11:22:55 AM · #15
So many people failed those kids. Sad.

I don't know how you could be human and feel sad for the adults who were supposed to look out for them and either took advantage of them or looked the other way because the perpetrator was a BMOC. As for Sandusky, it's hard not to hope that he gets his own "shower scene" in prison before he gets shanked.
11/10/2011 11:27:08 AM · #16
I know just about nothing about this whole thing so I have a limited opinion... But here it is...

Paterno, I feel bad that you are put into this situation but I don't feel bad how you dealt with it.

Now to go read up more on it so that I have a stronger opinion which may change after I finish researching.
11/10/2011 11:46:57 AM · #17
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

I know just about nothing about this whole thing so I have a limited opinion... But here it is...

Paterno, I feel bad that you are put into this situation but I don't feel bad how you dealt with it.

Now to go read up more on it so that I have a stronger opinion which may change after I finish researching.


Just read the grand jury report...just don't do it after eating.
11/10/2011 11:53:25 AM · #18
Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

I know just about nothing about this whole thing so I have a limited opinion... But here it is...

Paterno, I feel bad that you are put into this situation but I don't feel bad how you dealt with it.

Now to go read up more on it so that I have a stronger opinion which may change after I finish researching.


Just read the grand jury report...just don't do it after eating.


I made it to page 17 and got physically sick to my stomach. My little boy is almost 10. As a parent, it infuriates and sickens me.
11/10/2011 11:58:17 AM · #19
Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

I know just about nothing about this whole thing so I have a limited opinion... But here it is...

Paterno, I feel bad that you are put into this situation but I don't feel bad how you dealt with it.

Now to go read up more on it so that I have a stronger opinion which may change after I finish researching.


Just read the grand jury report...just don't do it after eating.


I made it to page 17 and got physically sick to my stomach. My little boy is almost 10. As a parent, it infuriates and sickens me.


Me too. If that was one of my boys, there wouldn't be a trial.
11/10/2011 12:00:11 PM · #20
Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

I know just about nothing about this whole thing so I have a limited opinion... But here it is...

Paterno, I feel bad that you are put into this situation but I don't feel bad how you dealt with it.

Now to go read up more on it so that I have a stronger opinion which may change after I finish researching.


Just read the grand jury report...just don't do it after eating.


I made it to page 17 and got physically sick to my stomach. My little boy is almost 10. As a parent, it infuriates and sickens me.


Me too. If that was one of my boys, there wouldn't be a trial.


Well there would be, just against someone else.
11/10/2011 12:12:44 PM · #21
Originally posted by IAmEliKatz:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

I know just about nothing about this whole thing so I have a limited opinion... But here it is...

Paterno, I feel bad that you are put into this situation but I don't feel bad how you dealt with it.

Now to go read up more on it so that I have a stronger opinion which may change after I finish researching.


Just read the grand jury report...just don't do it after eating.


I made it to page 17 and got physically sick to my stomach. My little boy is almost 10. As a parent, it infuriates and sickens me.


Me too. If that was one of my boys, there wouldn't be a trial.


Well there would be, just against someone else.

exactly

eta: i'm on the fence as to whether or not i want my 13-yr-old son and 15-yr-old daughter to read the report. i might print it out and redact parts of it. i had to go through youth protection training as a boy scout parent, and my son had to go through the handbook as well, but, all the same, this makes it a lot more real world than reading about the theoretical examples. some kids may sense that something's not quite right, but their uncertainty puts them at risk. something like this can help remove all doubt from any gray areas as to what's right and wrong, what's acceptable and what's not.

this report should be required reading for anyone in a position of leadership, especially one that involves young people.

Message edited by author 2011-11-10 12:19:53.
11/10/2011 12:38:43 PM · #22
i feel sorry for two reasons, one he takings the brunt of the blame for this, even though he one in a long line of enablers, and two, we dont know anything. we dont know what he knows or what he did or didn't do, what circumstances lead to his decisions, nothing.

lets say we speculate that he knew or heard about something in '98 and at that point told sandusky "im not going to report you, but you aren't going to be the head coach of penn state and you have to resign". and if you dont straighten up I go to the police.

these guys were tight at that point, and honestly how do you think you'd react in this situation if this happened to one of your life long friends? you can say all you want about what you would have done, but unless it happened to you, you have no idea how'd you react, if you say you do you are lying to yourself.

people are saying that McQueary should have gone to the police, yep that sounds right, but you realize that as a grad assistant, his future coaching career is done if he brings a scandal like this to penn state, he has no idea what to do so he calls his dad and they decide to at least report it to his superiors. now is he off the off hook? was he selfish? in hindsight probably, would you give up your future based on something you saw? how does he know he'd even be able to convince anyone, after all its his word against the mighty Penn State.

for all anyone involved knows this was an isolated incident and sandusky never did it again. we all know now that's not true, but we also dont know what they all know.

if they tried to police it in house how is that any different than when we let convicted child molesters out of jail and back into public only to watch t happens again.

just to be clear im not condoning anything these guys did, i think they all made an error in judgement and they deserve whats coming to them, Penn state needs to clean house and move on from this. im just playing devil's advocate that this inst that cut and dry of a situation.

Message edited by author 2011-11-10 12:40:15.
11/10/2011 12:50:37 PM · #23
So who thought of the recently aired Law and Order SVU case after hearing about this? creepy
11/10/2011 01:05:57 PM · #24
Originally posted by Maverick:


the firing of Paterno without fact or even discussion of his role - is sickening.


Not really. He, self-admittedly, protected a pedophile by not "doing more". He is a sick human being, as are the other individuals involved in the cover up.

Mike..."this was an isolated incident and sandusky never did it again"...so a single rape is cool? Just be a good lad, and don't do it again is the message you are sending.
11/10/2011 01:39:37 PM · #25
Originally posted by bspurgeon:

Originally posted by Maverick:


the firing of Paterno without fact or even discussion of his role - is sickening.


Not really. He, self-admittedly, protected a pedophile by not "doing more". He is a sick human being, as are the other individuals involved in the cover up.

Mike..."this was an isolated incident and sandusky never did it again"...so a single rape is cool? Just be a good lad, and don't do it again is the message you are sending.


isn't that what we tell the pedophiles and molesters who have been "rehabilitated" by the state?

Pages:  
Current Server Time: 06/25/2019 10:09:17 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2019 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Proudly hosted by Sargasso Networks. Current Server Time: 06/25/2019 10:09:17 PM EDT.