Row over photo in shopping centre

10/10/2011 07:44:18 AM · #1

This sort of thing winds me up.

Row over photo in shopping centre

Originally posted by article:

A Facebook campaign is calling for people to boycott a shopping centre after claims a man was questioned by police for taking photographs of his own four-year-old daughter.

Chris White took a picture of Hazel eating an ice cream in the Braehead shopping centre, near Glasgow.

A security guard told him it was illegal to take pictures in the centre.

10/10/2011 08:17:47 AM · #2

This is different from a lot of the other "photographer's rights violated scenarios". This seems to me to be a pretty clear cut case based on this from the story: "The police were called and Mr White was told there were "clear signs" saying no photographs were allowed."

Also

Originally posted by Braehead spokesman:

"We have a 'no photography' policy in the centre to protect the privacy of staff and shoppers and to have a legitimate opportunity to challenge suspicious behaviour if required�

If you don't like the rules on private property then don't go there.

10/10/2011 08:20:46 AM · #3

Shopping Center policy is one thing, but quoting the 'Terrorism Act' was taking it a bit far, no?

Originally posted by article:

Mr White said that one officer claimed that under the Prevention of Terrorism Act he was within in his rights to confiscate the mobile phone on which the photos were taken.

Message edited by author 2011-10-10 08:20:53.

10/10/2011 08:25:02 AM · #4

Yes, that part I don't care for. It's a shame that much of the world lives in almost constant 'terror' and have to quote the Terrorism Act or other such measures that are meant to be good intentions to keep us safe.

Officials who have the power to enforce the measures in such acts should do so with a bit more common sense.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

10/10/2011 08:32:23 AM · #5

I know better than to start taking pictures in a shopping mall. I did that about twenty years ago, long before this hysteria starting getting bad. A security guard approached me and made it clear that the mall prohibits photography on their property. I stopped taking pictures immediately and I've never taken a picture in a mall since.

The guard didn't have to preach some sort of terrorism act or threaten to confiscate my camera. He was reasonable and mentioned ONLY the malls rules and once I was informed I simply complied.

That's how it should have worked in the ice cream parlor in my opinion. There was no need on the part of security to make any justification other than state the shopping center's rules, especially after they arrived, took stock of the situation, and realized with common sense the innocence of what the situation really was.

So it was handled wrong. That should be the issue, not that a father can't take a picture of his little girl there because that is clearly against the rules of the private property owners.

amsterdamman

Canon EOS-5D

10/10/2011 08:36:55 AM · #6

Originally posted by article:

"However, it is not our intention to - and we do not - stop innocent family members taking pictures."

Humans do not seem to be wise enough anymore to interpret anything complex. It frightens me to live amongst so many dangerous literalists.
Clearly this is a case of an "innocent family members taking pictures." Instead of a boycott, the public should all go and take photo's there instead.
Seems another example of the Stanford Prison effect. Give people power they will overuse it and loose all sight of the reason they had it to begin with.
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
If society can not tell the difference between a child and a terrorist, then my money, very sadly, is on anarchy and collapse.
Back in 2002 there was a WWII Congressional Medal of Honor winner aged 86 that was told to destroy the CMOH since it was a weapon....
//archives.cnn.com/2002/US/02/27/war.hero.cnna/
I'm pretty sure any country is safe from its own greatest heros and patriots, but then again, I can tell the difference between complex thoughts...

10/10/2011 09:14:04 AM · #7

Just another reason to not go to the mall. UCK.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

10/10/2011 09:14:47 AM · #8

Originally posted by amsterdamman:

Originally posted by article:
"However, it is not our intention to - and we do not - stop innocent family members taking pictures."

Humans do not seem to be wise enough anymore to interpret anything complex.

It's not really that complex - it's plain old-fashioned common sense.

If the management are saying "it is not our intention to stop innocent family members taking pictures" then the rule is not a clear-cut 'no photography' one.

So in this case, it's up to the security guards to use common sense. Perhaps the management should update them.

o2bskating

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

10/10/2011 09:42:55 AM · #9

it's kinda hard for people to use common sense when the schools don't teach that any more. the schools teach blindly follow the rules don't ask why just follow them.

obscurity

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85

Olympus 30mm M.Zuiko Digital ED F3.5 Macro

10/10/2011 09:57:08 AM · #10

Yeah I had a security guard at Walmart get sideways with me for taking a photo of my son sitting with the Ronald McDonald statue they had outside their McDonalds.

MikeO

Fujifilm x100

10/10/2011 10:30:14 AM · #11

//newsthump.com/2011/10/10/scottish-police-praised-after-foiling-al-qaeda-toddler-ice-cream-plot/

amsterdamman

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

10/10/2011 10:43:44 AM · #12

//newsthump.com/2010/08/06/terrorists-sick-of-being-treated-like-photographers/
there are more stories on that site that the "Man" doesn't want us to see!! Thanks Mike!

Nikon AF-S DX 18-105 f/3.5-5.6 ED VR

10/10/2011 10:43:54 AM · #13

LOL, that's a great version of the story.

PixelPerfect

Nikon D90

10/10/2011 01:19:41 PM · #14

Originally posted by o2bskating:

it's kinda hard for people to use common sense when the schools don't teach that any more. the schools teach blindly follow the rules don't ask why just follow them.

As a school teacher myself, I think it is very wrong to place the blame for a lack of common sense on the education system. You can instill values and a sense of right or wrong but it is, ultimately, up to the individual. You can have the best, private education in the world and still have no common sense...

There is such a 'culture' that has developed (especially in the last ten years) which has resulted in mixed-messages and created this grey area that we are currently stuck in. I think it's an aspect of photography thats not going to go away anytime soon.

Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS

10/10/2011 01:28:40 PM · #15

Originally posted by o2bskating:

it's kinda hard for people to use common sense when the schools don't teach that any more. the schools teach blindly follow the rules don't ask why just follow them.

What reality do you live in? Schools are just one small part of a person's education. Whatever happened to the parents' responsibility to teach their kids how to think? Or the responsibility of the individual to consider what they're being told and using their brains.

KristinaG

Canon EOS-7D

10/10/2011 01:56:48 PM · #16

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by o2bskating:
it's kinda hard for people to use common sense when the schools don't teach that any more. the schools teach blindly follow the rules don't ask why just follow them.

What reality do you live in? Schools are just one small part of a person's education. Whatever happened to the parents' responsibility to teach their kids how to think? Or the responsibility of the individual to consider what they're being told and using their brains.

Schools have been blamed for all of society's shortcomings for hundreds of years.
During the Industrial Revolution, it was the school's JOB to create good workers
During World War 2, it was the school's JOB to create patriotic citizens
During the Cold War, it was the school's JOB to raise good capitalists
Somehow schools are supposed to educate, create moral citizens, fix all of the governments problems, prevent wars, win wars, teach common sense, create law abiding citizens, end discrimination etc. etc. etc.
Really, the word "School" should be renamed to what it actually is..."Scapegoat"

/end rant (haha, sorry, I am studying to become a teacher, and the schoolsystem is looking pretty sad right now)

10/10/2011 02:56:31 PM · #17

Originally posted by Fiora:

Really? According to who? The parents?

Well, not this parent. I have been very careful in choosing where my son goes to school and it's paying off very well. But when it comes to what my son becomes, that's up to me and how I raise him. Schools don't raise kids, parents do. I have twisted, bent, and worked the system to keep my son in the best schools here (top 20 in Florida for Elementary, number 15 in the country for High Schools) for the education, but I have shaped who he has become by being a major part of his life.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

10/10/2011 03:04:31 PM · #18

Originally posted by yakatme:

Originally posted by Fiora:
Schools have been blamed for all of society's shortcomings for hundreds of years.
During the Industrial Revolution, it was the school's JOB to create good workers
During World War 2, it was the school's JOB to create patriotic citizens
During the Cold War, it was the school's JOB to raise good capitalists
Somehow schools are supposed to educate, create moral citizens, fix all of the governments problems, prevent wars, win wars, teach common sense, create law abiding citizens, end discrimination etc. etc. etc.
Really, the word "School" should be renamed to what it actually is..."Scapegoat"

/end rant (haha, sorry, I am studying to become a teacher, and the schoolsystem is looking pretty sad right now)

Really? According to who? The parents?

Well, not this parent. I have been very careful in choosing where my son goes to school and it's paying off very well. But when it comes to what my son becomes, that's up to me and how I raise him. Schools don't raise kids, parents do. I have twisted, bent, and worked the system to keep my son in the best schools here (top 20 in Florida for Elementary, number 15 in the country for High Schools) for the education, but I have shaped who he has become by being a major part of his life.

IMO, It's according to the lazy parents.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

10/10/2011 03:45:44 PM · #19

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by yakatme:

Originally posted by Fiora:
Schools have been blamed for all of society's shortcomings for hundreds of years.

/end rant (haha, sorry, I am studying to become a teacher, and the schoolsystem is looking pretty sad right now)

Really? According to who? The parents?

Well, not this parent.

IMO, It's according to the lazy parents.

Also, the ones who assign teachers "the most responsible job in the world" and then don't want to pay for that expertise and responsibility ...

10/10/2011 03:56:01 PM · #20

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by yakatme:

Originally posted by Fiora:
Schools have been blamed for all of society's shortcomings for hundreds of years.

/end rant (haha, sorry, I am studying to become a teacher, and the schoolsystem is looking pretty sad right now)

Really? According to who? The parents?

Well, not this parent.

IMO, It's according to the lazy parents.

Also, the ones who assign teachers "the most responsible job in the world" and then don't want to pay for that expertise and responsibility ...

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/10/2011 04:10:43 PM · #21

Funny we're talking about common sense. This was posted to the photographer's facebook page earlier;

Originally posted by facebook:

A victory for common sense... Braehead has issued a formal apology to Chris, the contents of which can be seen below. Thanks to everyone who has supported this and brought it to the forefront of public debate.

"Dear Mr White

I am writing to formally apologise for the distress that we may have caused you and your family when you visited Braehead last Friday.

As you may be aware, in light of your complaint and the public debate surrounding the incident, we have decided to change our photography policy to allow family and friends to take photos in the mall.

Once again, I wish to sincerely apologise for any distress we may have caused,

Kind regards

Peter"

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

10/10/2011 04:17:50 PM · #22

Originally posted by JH:

Funny we're talking about common sense. This was posted to the photographer's facebook page earlier;

Originally posted by facebook:
A victory for common sense... Braehead has issued a formal apology to Chris, the contents of which can be seen below. Thanks to everyone who has supported this and brought it to the forefront of public debate.

"Dear Mr White

I am writing to formally apologise for the distress that we may have caused you and your family when you visited Braehead last Friday.

As you may be aware, in light of your complaint and the public debate surrounding the incident, we have decided to change our photography policy to allow family and friends to take photos in the mall.

Once again, I wish to sincerely apologise for any distress we may have caused,

Kind regards

Peter"

Oh that's just great - now the mall is supporting terrorism.

KristinaG

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS

10/10/2011 04:47:18 PM · #23

Originally posted by yakatme:

Sorry, I should have clarified.
According to the government. Politicians are forever railing to fix our schools, when really its the government that usually does the most damage.
No other institution has been completely revamped so many times without showing much difference in results.
Some parents don't help either...but that definitely isn't the majority

BTW, in my post I was mainly agreeing with you, and speaking against the blame set on schools by o2bskating...while still saying that such sentiments is a common trend.

Anyways, this is completely off topic anyways...so lets continue talking about photographers and shopping malls.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/10/2011 05:01:39 PM · #24