Thumbnails not visible until you have voted

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

07/26/2004 06:13:28 PM · #1

A member who wishes to remain anonymous has shared with me what I think is a great suggestion.

When a challenge begins, all thumbnails would be hidden, but each voter would have a "Start Voting" link. When you begin voting, the images will appear in random order (as they do now), except voters will not be able to "pick and choose" from the thumbnails which images to vote on. All voting would happen in random order. As you vote on each image, those images become visible on the thumbnails page so you can go back and change your votes or go back and comment accordingly (as you can now).

I see three main advantages to this:

1. Certain types images are conducive to attractive thumbnails. Those types of images consistently receive a greater raw number of votes. This would force a random distribution of votes and, presumably, fairer results.

B. This could reduce "drive-by" voting by people showing up to vote on their friends' images.

iii. This would reduce the bandwidth and load time requirements for the voting page.

I'm posting this to get a feel for community support of this idea as well as to invite other suggestions or refinements on this issue.

Thanks,
Terry

digistoune

Canon EOS-20D

07/26/2004 06:15:19 PM · #2

Anything that will make voting more fair to everyone will get my vote. Go for it!

Kylie

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ35

07/26/2004 06:17:39 PM · #3

A resounding yes from me!!!!! Please!

OneSweetSin

Nikon D3000

07/26/2004 06:18:31 PM · #4

Everytime something like this is suggested I add my two cents while we are on the topic...I think the numbers shouldn't be above the photo cause often photos don't even get entirely opened up before the vote is cast...if we only had the numbers to vote with under the photo then at least the photo stands a chance.

digistoune

Canon EOS-20D

07/26/2004 06:25:24 PM · #5

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

Do people really do that? Cast a vote without even looking at the photo??

frisca

Nikon D70

07/26/2004 06:25:26 PM · #6

i agree with both the suggestions made here, but ask about the folks on dialup who may feel that each photo loading is time consuming and this method prevents them from looking at the photos in the challenge that interests them.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

07/26/2004 06:26:56 PM · #7

Could this setup be a user preference much like how many thumbnails per page?

07/26/2004 06:27:40 PM · #8

Originally posted by digistoune:

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Everytime something like this is suggested I add my two cents while we are on the topic...I think the numbers shouldn't be above the photo cause often photos don't even get entirely opened up before the vote is cast...if we only had the numbers to vote with under the photo then at least the photo stands a chance.

Do people really do that? Cast a vote without even looking at the photo??

Some form an opinion as the image is loading and essentially vote on part of the image.

-Terry

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/26/2004 06:28:51 PM · #9

Terry

I think this is an excellent idea and I agree that some images make better thumbnails than other images which are equally impressive when viewed full size.

I'd also like to request some additional functionality:

When I vote I first do a rough "draft" vote and then go through at least once more, but more usually twice, to fine tune my vote for each image.

Once I've voted the first time I can no longer work through the images in turn - opening one and revoting it just takes me back to the thumbnail screen.

I'd like to have the option of working my way through the images again (preferably ordered by the score I have given already). I'd definitely like to be able to see the score I already gave, as you can now when you reopen an image you've already voted.

If I could choose to do this by current score it would be even better, e.g. reviewing all my 9s on demand, though this isn't as important.

But the way it stands now, I have to use my Back button rather too extensively and it's quite a pain.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

07/26/2004 06:30:01 PM · #10

This would dramatically increase the number of votes, since you couldn't browse through the thumbnails until you've voted. I suspect that there would be a huge surge of votes early in the week, and then a trickle as the days wore on. On the other hand, for that very reason, I could see many people just blasting through the thumbnails with random votes- and little consideration- in order to see them all. This could result in some bizarre voting patterns, and emotional trauma for photographers getting senseless scores.

I, for one, enjoy browsing the thumbnails at 12:01am to see what others have dreamed up, but I don't tend to vote until late in the week. Maybe voting could be SEPARATED from the thumbnail page and presented sequentially in a different random order, as suggested?

Falc

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

07/26/2004 06:32:17 PM · #11

I like the idea, truly blind voting is the best option. Those on dialup will be able to see the thumbnails once voting is complete.

Message edited by author 2004-07-26 18:32:59.

07/26/2004 06:35:20 PM · #12

Originally posted by frisca:

The problem is they're choosing the THUMBNAILS that interest them, not the PHOTOS that interest them. Of concern here is that certain images lend themselves naturally to impressive thumbnails.

-Terry

07/26/2004 06:39:10 PM · #13

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by frisca:
i agree with both the suggestions made here, but ask about the folks on dialup who may feel that each photo loading is time consuming and this method prevents them from looking at the photos in the challenge that interests them.

The problem is they're choosing the THUMBNAILS that interest them, not the PHOTOS that interest them. Of concern here is that certain images lend themselves naturally to impressive thumbnails.

-Terry

If the issue is that some people like to look at thumbnail only lists purely to view all the entries (but don't intend to use them to vote) could there be an additional page which shows all the thumbnails but where these thumbnails are NOT links to the larger images and cannot themselves be used to vote?

That way voters are channelled into voting on full size images only whereas viewers can choose to download thumbnail only lists but will not be able to vote from them - for that they'll need to go the fullsize route.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/26/2004 06:41:48 PM · #14

Originally posted by Kavey:

My concern would be that people would pull the IMAGE_ID from the thumbnail and use that to vote. Blocking that ability would take substantial reprogramming.

-Terry

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

07/26/2004 06:42:29 PM · #15

Kinda like what I said, but with more letters and punctuation marks.

07/26/2004 06:44:01 PM · #16

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by Kavey:
If the issue is that some people like to look at thumbnail only lists purely to view all the entries (but don't intend to use them to vote) could there be an additional page which shows all the thumbnails but where these thumbnails are NOT links to the larger images and cannot themselves be used to vote?

That way voters are channelled into voting on full size images only whereas viewers can choose to download thumbnail only lists but will not be able to vote from them - for that they'll need to go the fullsize route.

My concern would be that people would pull the IMAGE_ID from the thumbnail and use that to vote. Blocking that ability would take substantial reprogramming.

-Terry

Why would the thumb have to show an image ID if it wasn't part of a link to the full size image?

07/26/2004 06:48:41 PM · #17

Originally posted by Kavey:

Why would the thumb have to show an image ID if it wasn't part of a link to the full size image?

That's part of the thumbnail's filename. They take the form //images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/ccc/thumb/iiiii.jpg where ccc is the Challenge number and iiiii is the IMAGE_ID.

-Terry

Message edited by author 2004-07-26 18:49:06.

07/26/2004 06:50:01 PM · #18

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by Kavey:
Why would the thumb have to show an image ID if it wasn't part of a link to the full size image?

That's part of the thumbnail's filename. They take the form //images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/ccc/thumb/iiiii.jpg where ccc is the Challenge number and iiiii is the IMAGE_ID.

-Terry

OK I must be being dense but... does that SHOW anywhere once the image is loaded?

I mean, yes people could still extract it but - are they likely to go to that much trouble JUST to avoid voting on the full size?

07/26/2004 06:52:06 PM · #19

Originally posted by Kavey:

OK I must be being dense but... does that SHOW anywhere once the image is loaded?

Right click on the image and select Properties. Really easy.

Originally posted by Kavey:

I mean, yes people could still extract it but - are they likely to go to that much trouble JUST to avoid voting on the full size?

In my opinion, yes... not to avoid voting on the full size but to pick and choose which images they want to vote on.

-Terry

07/26/2004 06:55:12 PM · #20

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by Kavey:
OK I must be being dense but... does that SHOW anywhere once the image is loaded?

Right click on the image and select Properties. Really easy.

Oh, OK.

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by Kavey:
I mean, yes people could still extract it but - are they likely to go to that much trouble JUST to avoid voting on the full size?

In my opinion, yes... not to avoid voting on the full size but to pick and choose which images they want to vote on.

I just can't imagine many people would do this if the voting pages were redesigned so that one couldn't vote from the thumbnail page itself and those thumbnails didn't link to votable full size pictures.

But, who knows without trying it?

dinny

Fujifilm FinePix S602Z

07/26/2004 06:55:31 PM · #21

I like the idea of voting from of the original view. I must admit, I have missed some great shots by passing over the thumbnails and running out of time.

I would like the option to not vote on an image, maybe with a "next" button. If the image is a no vote, it would not be available in the thumbnails, but it would be put back at the end of the random order.

07/26/2004 06:56:14 PM · #22

Originally posted by dinny:

I would like the option to not vote on an image, maybe with a "next" button. If the image is a no vote, it would not be available in the thumbnails, but it would be put back at the end of the random order.

That option already exists. Not sure if we would retain it though.

-Terry