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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Tragedy at an airshow...
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 09/16/2011 09:39:42 PM · #1
I get those breaking news emails and just got this one... link.
 09/16/2011 09:51:22 PM · #2
Just heard about that on the radio on my way home from work.

Stupid thing is they said they were not sure if anyone was hurt...Reckon if a plane has crashed into a grandstand at an airshow there is a high chance of poeple getting injured. I guess initial reports in another country are always going to be sketchy.

Hopes and prayers for all affected x
 09/16/2011 11:25:20 PM · #3
ugh...what a sad event...i'm going to the Miramar Air show in a few weeks...but i guess if it's your time.....
 09/17/2011 01:50:04 AM · #4
Going to an air show today in Gatineau, Qc, wish me luck.

09/17/2011 05:31:01 AM · #5
Originally posted by one2one:
Going to an air show today in Gatineau, Qc, wish me luck.


If you see a fat old fart with reddish white hair limping about, that will be me... Hope to see you there.

Ray
 09/17/2011 04:32:14 PM · #6
This is a tragic event, but something struck me (not literally like the spectators) as I was watching a press conference by the NTSB this morning. First of all, I question why the NTSB has anything to do with this - it is a SPORTING EVENT having nothing to do with "transportation". Secondly, they are saying it will take 9 months to complete an investigation as to what caused the crash. How much is this going to cost?? Shouldn't the event promoters foot the bill?? And ultimately what will the results of the investigation result in? This was an air RACE - an event with inherent dangers. I suppose if they find out that the pilot was drunk or that the pit crew left the gas cap off or something, they can use it to place liability, but again I ask why the NTSB is investigating and not some private insurance company. Does the NTSB investigate NASCAR crashes? Monster Truck Rally disasters? I just don't get the logic.
 09/17/2011 04:41:25 PM · #7
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This is a tragic event, but something struck me (not literally like the spectators) as I was watching a press conference by the NTSB this morning. First of all, I question why the NTSB has anything to do with this - it is a SPORTING EVENT having nothing to do with "transportation". Secondly, they are saying it will take 9 months to complete an investigation as to what caused the crash. How much is this going to cost?? Shouldn't the event promoters foot the bill?? And ultimately what will the results of the investigation result in? This was an air RACE - an event with inherent dangers. I suppose if they find out that the pilot was drunk or that the pit crew left the gas cap off or something, they can use it to place liability, but again I ask why the NTSB is investigating and not some private insurance company. Does the NTSB investigate NASCAR crashes? Monster Truck Rally disasters? I just don't get the logic.


Excellent point, very curious indeed.
 09/17/2011 04:55:05 PM · #8
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This is a tragic event, but something struck me (not literally like the spectators) as I was watching a press conference by the NTSB this morning. First of all, I question why the NTSB has anything to do with this - it is a SPORTING EVENT having nothing to do with "transportation". Secondly, they are saying it will take 9 months to complete an investigation as to what caused the crash. How much is this going to cost?? Shouldn't the event promoters foot the bill?? And ultimately what will the results of the investigation result in? This was an air RACE - an event with inherent dangers. I suppose if they find out that the pilot was drunk or that the pit crew left the gas cap off or something, they can use it to place liability, but again I ask why the NTSB is investigating and not some private insurance company. Does the NTSB investigate NASCAR crashes? Monster Truck Rally disasters? I just don't get the logic.


It was my very first thought as well. The NTSB should have nothing to do with this.
 09/17/2011 05:23:07 PM · #9
....because the governments nose is in everything. In addition...why will it will take NINE MONTHS to complete an investigation where all the evidence is on the ground and accounted for...even if it is in small pieces?

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This is a tragic event, but something struck me (not literally like the spectators) as I was watching a press conference by the NTSB this morning. First of all, I question why the NTSB has anything to do with this - it is a SPORTING EVENT having nothing to do with "transportation". Secondly, they are saying it will take 9 months to complete an investigation as to what caused the crash. How much is this going to cost?? Shouldn't the event promoters foot the bill?? And ultimately what will the results of the investigation result in? This was an air RACE - an event with inherent dangers. I suppose if they find out that the pilot was drunk or that the pit crew left the gas cap off or something, they can use it to place liability, but again I ask why the NTSB is investigating and not some private insurance company. Does the NTSB investigate NASCAR crashes? Monster Truck Rally disasters? I just don't get the logic.

09/17/2011 05:42:06 PM · #10
The NTSB participates in all aviation accidents/incidents to some degree. A Cessna 152 has an engine failure, they look at it. They provide safety recommendations to the FAA, etc. So, an aviation accident that resulted not only in the death of the pilot but also of people on the ground is well within their charter. They will also investigate the cause of the crash relative to the airplane itself, to see if there is some mechanical issue that could apply to other similar airplanes (or some of the custom modification common to racing aircraft). They will look into the pilot's history, health, the aircraft's maintenance records and the pedigree of the parts. They will look at the airspace and race course relative to the spectator area location. They could have findings and recommendations on any or all of those things.

I, for one, am glad they do so. If the aviation industry as a whole remains at the current very good safety level/accident rate, the growth of the commercial sector alone, with today's accident rate, would lead to one commercial airliner accident every couple of weeks. There is tremendous and intense effort and awareness within the industry of this potential, and there is a lot of energy behind improving the safety across the board.

In a case like this, there is a tendency to consider it a "one-off" isolated event (which it may be). But there is also potential for defective or counterfeit parts, improper maintenance or maintenance by unqualified personnel/companies that may also service other aircraft, there could be a heretofore unknown fatigue issue in the aircraft structure, which would lead to inspections of other similar aircraft. There are dozens of potential causes for such an accident, and a great many of those potential causes could apply to others still flying. And if it does turn out to be a one-off, isolated case, that is also good to know for certain, rather than simplistic assumptions or guesses.

Message edited by author 2011-09-17 17:44:16.
 09/17/2011 09:32:52 PM · #11
This is an AIR RACE involving a P51. I agree that someone should find out if it was a faulty part, but again this has nothing to do with transportation. I don't care whether the NTSB has always investigated these things, my position is that they shouldn't, or if they do, it should be paid for by the event promoters, NOT THE TAXPAYERS.

Anyway, it seems obvious what happened here:


But by all means, let us spend nine months and several million dollars investigating.
 09/17/2011 10:17:28 PM · #12
A trim tab cause this crash??? ummm No

1 The pilot radioed issues
2 The pilot pulled up and out of the race
3 The rear tailwheel was lowered and the gear was not (Possible Mech issue)
4 In the Final dive, the pilots head could not be seen in the canopy
5 A trim tab was seen broken

It sounds like,
1 The pilot had an issue (possibly the trim tab but also possible health issues or his bobblehead on his dashboard was not working, but something happened that nobody can guess.
2.The Pilot had Vertical control to pull out of the pack
3.The pilot nose dove into the crowd with two seperate independent minor mech issues that could not bring down a P-51....

Guessing on my part, the pilot was possibly having health issues, pulled out and passed out under the G's and hit things in the cockpit and what is known is that HE WAS NOT CONSCIOUS or completely unable to hold his head up to fly the plane as it flew into the ground in a low G maneuver.

Every person you speak with will have a different OPINION, This is why an investigation is done...to find out what really happened.

You have my $.02 on what I think happened, it is MY OPINION with the limited information available to me at this time

09/17/2011 10:20:12 PM · #13
Originally posted by Derf:
You have my $.02 on what I think happened, it is MY OPINION with the limited information available to me at this time

I'm satisfied with this. Let's wrap it up, send you a check and move on.
 09/17/2011 10:33:09 PM · #14
Another air show crash in West Virginia.
09/17/2011 11:12:56 PM · #15
Ken,

The NTSB investigates air craft crashes, because they are the ones with the expertise. The FAA has jurisdiction over the US airspace. The NTSB, does the investigations. The County Sheriff and the Highway Patrol are ill equipped for this sort of thing.
 09/18/2011 02:08:54 AM · #16
Did we mention that there is a reason for mandatory retirement age of commercial pilots? Maybe it should apply to guys who race planes over crowds.

Ok start shooting.
 09/18/2011 06:06:21 AM · #17
Originally posted by Derf:
A trim tab cause this crash??? ummm No

Guessing on my part, the pilot was possibly having health issues, pulled out and passed out under the G's and hit things in the cockpit and what is known is that HE WAS NOT CONSCIOUS or completely unable to hold his head up to fly the plane as it flew into the ground in a low G maneuver.


+$.02. Thank you for sharing your opinion.
 09/18/2011 08:39:54 AM · #18
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by one2one:
Going to an air show today in Gatineau, Qc, wish me luck.


If you see a fat old fart with reddish white hair limping about, that will be me... Hope to see you there.

Ray


Didn't see anyone actually, I was looking up the whole time. lol

Hope you had a great day, as I did.

Wow what a show. The lancaster flanked by two hurricanes and a spitfire and I forget the other one was my highlight of the day. Of course the Snowbirds gave another great show too. That Corsair is a lot bigger than I thought. Great event. Only one complaint and it's to the people who attend these events. YOU ARE NOT MADE OF GLASS, thank you.

Maybe we can arrange a meetup for next year Ray. Would be sweet.
 09/18/2011 05:04:14 PM · #19
Originally posted by one2one:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by one2one:
Going to an air show today in Gatineau, Qc, wish me luck.


If you see a fat old fart with reddish white hair limping about, that will be me... Hope to see you there.

Ray


Didn't see anyone actually, I was looking up the whole time. lol

Hope you had a great day, as I did.

Wow what a show. The lancaster flanked by two hurricanes and a spitfire and I forget the other one was my highlight of the day. Of course the Snowbirds gave another great show too. That Corsair is a lot bigger than I thought. Great event. Only one complaint and it's to the people who attend these events. YOU ARE NOT MADE OF GLASS, thank you.

Maybe we can arrange a meetup for next year Ray. Would be sweet.


It truly was an amazing event. I had never attended it before and thought there might be a few hundred people... Imagine my surprise when I saw the crowd.

I think I got some fairly good shots, but won't know till I install Photoshop. Mind you, first experience for me taking photos of planes in flight, so I have no idea if I succeeded or not.

I will send you a PM and give you my coordinates... It would be nice to get together for an outing.

Ray
 09/18/2011 06:11:39 PM · #20
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by one2one:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by one2one:
Going to an air show today in Gatineau, Qc, wish me luck.


If you see a fat old fart with reddish white hair limping about, that will be me... Hope to see you there.

Ray


Didn't see anyone actually, I was looking up the whole time. lol

Hope you had a great day, as I did.

Wow what a show. The lancaster flanked by two hurricanes and a spitfire and I forget the other one was my highlight of the day. Of course the Snowbirds gave another great show too. That Corsair is a lot bigger than I thought. Great event. Only one complaint and it's to the people who attend these events. YOU ARE NOT MADE OF GLASS, thank you.

Maybe we can arrange a meetup for next year Ray. Would be sweet.


It truly was an amazing event. I had never attended it before and thought there might be a few hundred people... Imagine my surprise when I saw the crowd.

I think I got some fairly good shots, but won't know till I install Photoshop. Mind you, first experience for me taking photos of planes in flight, so I have no idea if I succeeded or not.

I will send you a PM and give you my coordinates... It would be nice to get together for an outing.

Ray


That would be nice Ray, I think I'm falling in love with the Gatineau/Ottawa region so going there for me is always a pleasure.

I got some good ones of the show. It was my first time too at snapping moving airplanes that were so close. I put my camera on burst mode and panned the best I could. After looking at some of my Snowbirds shots I should have zoomed out a little more and captured more of the smoke trails.
Here's an example or two.



I took a lot of shots yesterday, I was surprised when I filled up my 16gb card even if I was shooting RAW only.
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