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09/22/2011 04:58:25 PM · #76
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Just remember Slippy, it's easier to catch a fly with honey than vinegar. As much fun as it might be, if you stay professional and act like you are working toward a "win-win mutual solution" the more likely you'll actually get some cash in your pocket.


You know what flies like even more than honey?

Shit.

Just sayin'. =P I say give 'em hell.
09/22/2011 05:09:55 PM · #77
figured it was appropriate:

//lifehacker.com/5842923/being-the-better-person-will-teach-people-to-treat-you-like-crap
09/22/2011 05:23:21 PM · #78
Originally posted by melodicgrace:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Just remember Slippy, it's easier to catch a fly with honey than vinegar. As much fun as it might be, if you stay professional and act like you are working toward a "win-win mutual solution" the more likely you'll actually get some cash in your pocket.


You know what flies like even more than honey?

Shit.

Just sayin'. =P I say give 'em hell.


I see your username is a bit of a misnomer... :D

I was just speaking from experience. YRMV.
09/22/2011 05:23:53 PM · #79
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by melodicgrace:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Just remember Slippy, it's easier to catch a fly with honey than vinegar. As much fun as it might be, if you stay professional and act like you are working toward a "win-win mutual solution" the more likely you'll actually get some cash in your pocket.


You know what flies like even more than honey?

Shit.

Just sayin'. =P I say give 'em hell.


I see your username is a bit of a misnomer... :D

I was just speaking from experience. YRMV.


=P
09/22/2011 05:31:59 PM · #80
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by melodicgrace:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Just remember Slippy, it's easier to catch a fly with honey than vinegar. As much fun as it might be, if you stay professional and act like you are working toward a "win-win mutual solution" the more likely you'll actually get some cash in your pocket.


You know what flies like even more than honey?

Shit.

Just sayin'. =P I say give 'em hell.


I see your username is a bit of a misnomer... :D

I was just speaking from experience. YRMV.


I've seen two basic reactions from people who have infringed on copyrights and been confronted. One is contrition and a willingness to work with the artist in order to make it right. This is where the honey comes in handy.

The other reaction is a "Fuck you, I'm not paying you anything. Go ahead, sue me asshole." That's when your lawyer with his big stick of copyright law comes in handy, you "give 'em Hell" and teach them their lesson the hard way. They generally aren't the kind of people you would ever want to deal with as clients anyway.
09/22/2011 05:35:22 PM · #81
Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by melodicgrace:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Just remember Slippy, it's easier to catch a fly with honey than vinegar. As much fun as it might be, if you stay professional and act like you are working toward a "win-win mutual solution" the more likely you'll actually get some cash in your pocket.


You know what flies like even more than honey?

Shit.

Just sayin'. =P I say give 'em hell.


I see your username is a bit of a misnomer... :D

I was just speaking from experience. YRMV.


I've seen two basic reactions from people who have infringed on copyrights and been confronted. One is contrition and a willingness to work with the artist in order to make it right. This is where the honey comes in handy.

The other reaction is a "Fuck you, I'm not paying you anything. Go ahead, sue me asshole." That's when your lawyer with his big stick of copyright law comes in handy, you "give 'em Hell" and teach them their lesson the hard way. They generally aren't the kind of people you would ever want to deal with as clients anyway.


+1 There is a time and place for being cordial. It looks like he already has been. But when manners don't work, you can either step it up a notch (albeit tactfully...perhaps not necessarily "hell" as I stated) and stand up for yourself, or give up and let someone get away with infringing your rights. =/

Message edited by author 2011-09-22 17:38:38.
09/22/2011 06:57:24 PM · #82
Originally posted by Spork99:

I've seen two basic reactions from people who have infringed on copyrights and been confronted. One is contrition and a willingness to work with the artist in order to make it right. This is where the honey comes in handy.

The other reaction is a "Fuck you, I'm not paying you anything. Go ahead, sue me asshole." That's when your lawyer with his big stick of copyright law comes in handy, you "give 'em Hell" and teach them their lesson the hard way. They generally aren't the kind of people you would ever want to deal with as clients anyway.


Oh yeah, I agree. The honey is an attempt to keep the target from going from group one to group two. Once they get there your job is much harder.
09/22/2011 07:03:19 PM · #83
Slippy, I don't don't know what the laws are in Canada, but south of the border if your photo is registered you have a significantly stronger case.
09/22/2011 07:58:41 PM · #84
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Spork99:

I've seen two basic reactions from people who have infringed on copyrights and been confronted. One is contrition and a willingness to work with the artist in order to make it right. This is where the honey comes in handy.

The other reaction is a "Fuck you, I'm not paying you anything. Go ahead, sue me asshole." That's when your lawyer with his big stick of copyright law comes in handy, you "give 'em Hell" and teach them their lesson the hard way. They generally aren't the kind of people you would ever want to deal with as clients anyway.


Oh yeah, I agree. The honey is an attempt to keep the target from going from group one to group two. Once they get there your job is much harder.


But then you don't feel bad about getting every last cent you can from those in group two. Including having their assets seized and sold. You want to piss someone off? Take their stuff and sell it. Legally. Aside from paying you, there's nothing they can do about it.
09/22/2011 08:33:16 PM · #85
Just a reminder, before you light your torches, that the stated deadline for a response is still four days away.
09/22/2011 08:41:46 PM · #86
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Just a reminder, before you light your torches, that the stated deadline for a response is still four days away.


And I &!~*ing in my pants waiting for a response
09/22/2011 10:18:40 PM · #87
I'm thinking, by the time this is all done, there should be a challenge in honor of this.

Challenge: Take a photo depicting a scene in this saga.
09/22/2011 10:22:15 PM · #88
Originally posted by PGerst:

I'm thinking, by the time this is all done, there should be a challenge in honor of this.

Challenge: Take a photo depicting a scene in this saga.

Shouldn't it be "Post a screenshot of Slippy's photo as (illegally) displayed on a website of your own design" ...?

Message edited by author 2011-09-22 22:22:37.
09/22/2011 10:30:22 PM · #89
I suppose that could be an option, but we would lose out on some really cool chainsaw photos.

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by PGerst:

I'm thinking, by the time this is all done, there should be a challenge in honor of this.

Challenge: Take a photo depicting a scene in this saga.

Shouldn't it be "Post a screenshot of Slippy's photo as (illegally) displayed on a website of your own design" ...?
09/22/2011 11:58:01 PM · #90
Originally posted by PGerst:

I suppose that could be an option, but we would lose out on some really cool chainsaw photos.

' . substr('//www.pbase.com/generale/image/33154770/small.jpg', strrpos('//www.pbase.com/generale/image/33154770/small.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
09/23/2011 09:07:36 AM · #91
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by PGerst:

I suppose that could be an option, but we would lose out on some really cool chainsaw photos.

' . substr('//www.pbase.com/generale/image/33154770/small.jpg', strrpos('//www.pbase.com/generale/image/33154770/small.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Do you do chainsaw carving, GeneralE?!?!

I've got responses from 3 of the 6 emails I sent to law firms yesterday. I'll wait a bit in case more come in and post them up. I haven't had a call back from the police yet, but the first cop I spoke to said it sounds like a civil case. I don't know what that means, probably "take it to court, buddy".

I know it's not the 26th yet, just getting my ducks in a row as I had some time, but have a lot of commitments this weekend and next week.

About registering copyright in Canada. I did some reading and it's not necessary, and actually pretty useless. Copyright is firmly with the photographer unless they're being employed, and paid, by someone for a particular project.

About catching more flies with honey... My original invoice was polite, his call telling me he was throwing it out was not. I don't feel any need to be nice. I never want to be employed by his company for a project, and doubt he runs the type of business that would pay anybody for photos anyway. He can muck-rake my name to other businesses all he wants, I think he'll realize he's only advertising that he's a crook. I make a good living as a geologist, and the extra money i make as a product photographer is nice for taking the family on vacations. I have loyal clients, and have no desire to work for crooks, or anybody who associates with them.

I'm not looking to make money, but I am looking to 'educate' this crook about the law, common sense, and consideration. I think he's the type who will only learn through having his bank account properly spanked.
09/23/2011 09:17:23 AM · #92
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

I think he's the type who will only learn through having his bank account properly spanked.


It's more fun when they refuse to pay the judgment. You get to show up with the police and start seizing their stuff in order to sell it. It's a very steep learning curve when they see their precious car being winched onto a flatbed and carted off to auction. Kinda like the spanking with an added kick to the nut cluster.

Message edited by author 2011-09-23 09:19:01.
09/23/2011 11:22:21 AM · #93
Sounds like a lot of work. Update us when this gets resolved mid-2012... ;)

Seriously though, good luck with it all. And let Spork handle the anger part. He seems to be all over that.
09/23/2011 11:29:00 AM · #94
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Sounds like a lot of work. Update us when this gets resolved mid-2012... ;)

Seriously though, good luck with it all. And let Spork handle the anger part. He seems to be all over that.

I'm in no hurry. It won't be work, it'll be a hobby. I can ride herd at my convenience, it's pretty much what I do for a living. :-)
09/23/2011 11:31:45 AM · #95
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Sounds like a lot of work. Update us when this gets resolved mid-2012... ;)

Seriously though, good luck with it all. And let Spork handle the anger part. He seems to be all over that.

I'm in no hurry. It won't be work, it'll be a hobby. I can ride herd at my convenience, it's pretty much what I do for a living. :-)


I'm sure this issue will move right along at geologic time.
09/23/2011 11:49:01 AM · #96
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

And let Spork handle the anger part. He seems to be all over that.


It's not about anger, it's about giving back.
09/23/2011 11:51:21 AM · #97
Originally posted by markwiley:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Sounds like a lot of work. Update us when this gets resolved mid-2012... ;)

Seriously though, good luck with it all. And let Spork handle the anger part. He seems to be all over that.

I'm in no hurry. It won't be work, it'll be a hobby. I can ride herd at my convenience, it's pretty much what I do for a living. :-)


I'm sure this issue will move right along at geologic time.


That does tend to give us perspective on things...
09/23/2011 01:38:38 PM · #98
What I've got back from lawyers so far:

*1*
Sorry, but I am not able to help you with respect to this matter. I would suggest you contact law firms with a general litigation practice. In light of the amount involved, the cost of retaining a lawyer would be rather substantial. You might consider going to the Small Claims Court and commencing an action.

*2*
Hi XXXX, I hope you copied the screen page when your photo was on the website, as well as notes with the date of the call and subsequent images of the photo still on the website. It would be very costly to litigate over $350. I would advise re-sending the invoice with a letter stating the facts.

*3*
I take photographs too, just as a hobby, and have been published, but not yet ripped off.
I am not an intellectual property specialist, but expect a demand letter from us will at least stop the use of your photo.
Since the amount involved is small vs. the cost of suing in small claims court, you would have to put the principle of copyright ahead of money. You certainly could sue in Small Claims and represent yourself, with some help from us.
So, I can get you XXXX XXXX (IP expert in Hamilton) or we can work as above.

*4*
We donít do IP work, but we can refer you to a local Hamilton IP boutique
What would you like to do?

============
============

So far it looks like I have two options. Since it's the principle, and not the money, which is my goal, I'm leaning toward paying a lawyer. It looks like my choice is help from a less expensive, non-IP lawyer, or a high-end IP lawyer. Thinking back to representing myself in the failed case of my speeding ticket for over an hour, I'd prefer to hire someone who knows the lingo.

I think I will contact *3* for proposals.

It looks like the moral of the story at this point is, if you're not well funded, and prepared to carry through on principle, forget about it. Unfortunately for the defendant, I am both of the above.
09/23/2011 02:27:55 PM · #99
I'll give you one more strategy to get him to budge without all this work. Go over to Getty Images and work with their calculators. Massage the variables until you get a nice big amount. Something in the multi-thousand dollar range. It shouldn't be too hard. It helps if you know a bit about the company too. How big is it, etc. Anyway, reapproach him with another letter saying this is what the calculators indicate is a reasonable settlement. Next, you can intimate that there are two paths for him to choose. One, he can go down the road to small claims court for the big number, or two he can take care of this right now for the $400 you originally billed him. He currently believes he can get out of this without paying a dime so that option is better in his eyes than your $400 option. You need to change his thinking to believe that the $400 option is the GOOD option and the path of least work and money for him.

I'm guessing your lawyer could help you with this if you want to pay him the $400 you collect.
09/23/2011 02:49:32 PM · #100
is it time for the torches yet .... ?
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