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08/24/2011 01:24:15 PM · #26 |
I think DNMC needs to a factor, but I don't know that I would consider to be highly overwhelming (except in the case of an obvious shoe-horn). I try to give the photographer every benefit of the doubt before judging their work DNMC. Now, if after that benefit of the doubt, I am certain it is a shoehorn (i.e. the proverbial landscape in a macro challenge), then I will vote it very low. However, if I don't see a connection, and their might be one I may not be catching. . .I will vote it lower, but I won't assassinate it. If I just don't agree with the interpretation of the challenge I may dock it a point at best. . .
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08/24/2011 01:29:16 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This isn't directed at anyone in particular.....
Keep in mind, it's the photographer's job to communicate the topic connection. If the voter doesn't see it, the photog failed in that regard. Sure some people are very literal, but voting on all aspects is subjective, so deal with it and don't disparage voters who don't "get" and/or highly value the topic connection. It is not the voters who are being judged, nor should they be.
... |
It's true that the current state of affairs at DPC can be characterized by the existence of some voters who don't "get" it, even when they should or could by being a bit less inflexible and narrow-minded. We do live with this and it is a fact of life. |
Yes Richard, and it seems the voters still have to here about it when they give a DNMC a DNMC. Meet the challenge = better score....DNMC = low score. It's simple, enter a photo that meets the challenge requirements. Just think if all sports were to be flexible in a way that the players could not follow the rules and get away with it. Sports would then be no more fun to watch. |
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08/24/2011 01:30:13 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Keep in mind, it's the photographer's job to communicate the topic connection. If the voter doesn't see it, the photog failed in that regard. |
That's why we got so many clocks in the Time challenge. Voters narrow perception strangles creativity. |
You say that, but my favorite was the tombstone in the gravveyard, and I am one who will comment DNMC. No clock in that one, but the photo met the challenge. |
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08/24/2011 01:30:48 PM · #29 |
possible -1s:
subject
crop
correct lighting type
over exposed
under exposed
rule of thirds
mackie lines
perspective
innefective use of noise
processing filter issues
So can get to a 1, but the photographer would have to really work at it.
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08/24/2011 01:45:15 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by TheDruid:
possible -1s:
subject
crop
correct lighting type
over exposed
under exposed
rule of thirds
mackie lines
perspective
innefective use of noise
processing filter issues
So can get to a 1, but the photographer would have to really work at it. |
Within my first year of shooting, and maybe I am not as knowledgable as I should be, but what is a "mackie line"?
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08/24/2011 01:57:46 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Originally posted by Cyberlandz:
5 would be a fair max to a dnmc |
So why have a scale of 1-10? Why would you not use 1-5? DNMC means failed. You would give a 50% to a failed attempt? |
And you would vote 1 or 2 for a failed attempt? The fact that you take away only 8 points for a dnmc means, somehow you still saw something in the image that makes it worthy of a 2. In my case, i try to see more than that, that's why i may still give it a "max" of 5. |
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08/24/2011 02:25:57 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Jon_H:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by Jon_H:
I used to drop 1-3 votes for what I believed to be a DNMC, but like others have said the quality of the image is more important so I changed my marking to deduct 2 marks for a DNMC, sometimes what I believed to be a DNMC was perfectly valid I just failed to see it, so dropping a 1 is not called for unless... |
Nothing annoys me more than telling people how to vote - especially when you admittedly used to vote in a way you have now decided is "uncalled for" - it's like an ex-smoker lecturing someone who lights up.
The only voting criticism I think is valid is voting down entries to elevate one's own score. But that seems to be hard to catch and I don't have any idea to what extent it goes on.
edit:typo |
I was not intending to tell voters how to vote I was merely explaining what I do in order to provide the initiator with some insight on how others vote, mine is one opinion in many thousands on here.
Your viewpoint of being annoyed at the fact that I have an opinion is a little short sighted as many comments are made on our shots that are opinions of others, if we all became annoyed at others opinions the comments would dry up. |
Jon - see my emphasis in your original post - this is what I call telling voters how to vote. However, if you meant "uncalled for" as it applies to you and your voting, then my response was DNMC and I apologize for not "getting it". ;-)
Message edited by author 2011-08-24 14:27:14. |
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08/24/2011 02:30:28 PM · #33 |
I only give 1s for images that are blatantly offensive. Actually I can't remember having given any 1s so far. 1 is reserved for the worst of the worst. Not just a careless shot, but blatantly horrible and bad.
Similarly, I only give 10s for images that make a similar emotional impact in the positive direction. So great that I'm offended, you could say. :) I've given a fair share of 10s for some recent shots.
DMNC definitely should be taken into account, otherwise let's just have 5 free studies a month.
(Naturally, some challenges will have a wider range of MC. It's easier to MC in a "Pattern" or "In the style of" challenge than it is in a "Fireworks" or "High Key" challenge, eg.) |
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08/24/2011 02:34:04 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This isn't directed at anyone in particular.....
Keep in mind, it's the photographer's job to communicate the topic connection. If the voter doesn't see it, the photog failed in that regard. Sure some people are very literal, but voting on all aspects is subjective, so deal with it and don't disparage voters who don't "get" and/or highly value the topic connection. It is not the voters who are being judged, nor should they be.
... |
It's true that the current state of affairs at DPC can be characterized by the existence of some voters who don't "get" it, even when they should or could by being a bit less inflexible and narrow-minded. We do live with this and it is a fact of life. |
It's not a "fact", it's YOUR OPINION. It's also name-calling and intolerance of people who don't see things exactly the way you do. This is the problem we have in our political discourse as well.
rugman has his guidelines (max of 2) for what he considers DNMC. I have mine - max of 5. The 5 represents my "flexibility and open mindedness" in giving some benefit of the doubt on the topic on what I consider an outstanding image. I don't criticize those who outright disregard the topic when voting as if they were all free studies - that's their prerogative. |
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08/24/2011 02:37:13 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by crowis:
Originally posted by TheDruid:
possible -1s:
subject
crop
correct lighting type
over exposed
under exposed
rule of thirds
mackie lines
perspective
innefective use of noise
processing filter issues
So can get to a 1, but the photographer would have to really work at it. |
Within my first year of shooting, and maybe I am not as knowledgable as I should be, but what is a "mackie line"? |
Mackie line
In digital photography it usually means over sharpening.
Photographic Science and other fun stuff |
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08/24/2011 02:56:30 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This isn't directed at anyone in particular.....
Keep in mind, it's the photographer's job to communicate the topic connection. If the voter doesn't see it, the photog failed in that regard. Sure some people are very literal, but voting on all aspects is subjective, so deal with it and don't disparage voters who don't "get" and/or highly value the topic connection. It is not the voters who are being judged, nor should they be.
... |
It's true that the current state of affairs at DPC can be characterized by the existence of some voters who don't "get" it, even when they should or could by being a bit less inflexible and narrow-minded. We do live with this and it is a fact of life. |
It's not a "fact", it's YOUR OPINION. It's also name-calling and intolerance of people who don't see things exactly the way you do. This is the problem we have in our political discourse as well.
rugman has his guidelines (max of 2) for what he considers DNMC. I have mine - max of 5. The 5 represents my "flexibility and open mindedness" in giving some benefit of the doubt on the topic on what I consider an outstanding image. I don't criticize those who outright disregard the topic when voting as if they were all free studies - that's their prerogative. |
Some people are too ignorant to understand the creative interpretation of some challenges. I don't think there's anything to be done about it. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt they are simply oblivious & unaware... rather than just downright petty. |
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08/24/2011 03:08:42 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This isn't directed at anyone in particular.....
Keep in mind, it's the photographer's job to communicate the topic connection. If the voter doesn't see it, the photog failed in that regard. Sure some people are very literal, but voting on all aspects is subjective, so deal with it and don't disparage voters who don't "get" and/or highly value the topic connection. It is not the voters who are being judged, nor should they be.
... |
It's true that the current state of affairs at DPC can be characterized by the existence of some voters who don't "get" it, even when they should or could by being a bit less inflexible and narrow-minded. We do live with this and it is a fact of life. |
It's not a "fact", it's YOUR OPINION. It's also name-calling and intolerance of people who don't see things exactly the way you do. This is the problem we have in our political discourse as well.
rugman has his guidelines (max of 2) for what he considers DNMC. I have mine - max of 5. The 5 represents my "flexibility and open mindedness" in giving some benefit of the doubt on the topic on what I consider an outstanding image. I don't criticize those who outright disregard the topic when voting as if they were all free studies - that's their prerogative. |
Some people are too ignorant to understand the creative interpretation of some challenges. I don't think there's anything to be done about it. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt they are simply oblivious & unaware... rather than just downright petty. |
I'll just let your own words speak for themselves since they do a good job of reinforcing my point. |
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08/24/2011 03:37:13 PM · #38 |
I won't go over 10 for a DNMC image and I won't go under 1 for an image that meets the challenge.
meeting the challenge *is* a part of my scoring, though. It's another way to tick me off and make me vote you lower. It's another way to please me and make me vote you higher. In spite of what I said, it's rare I'll give a 10 for dnmc or a 1 if it meets the challenge (I rarely give 1s anyway, more out of laziness than principle). |
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08/24/2011 03:54:33 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This isn't directed at anyone in particular.....
Keep in mind, it's the photographer's job to communicate the topic connection. If the voter doesn't see it, the photog failed in that regard. Sure some people are very literal, but voting on all aspects is subjective, so deal with it and don't disparage voters who don't "get" and/or highly value the topic connection. It is not the voters who are being judged, nor should they be.
... |
It's true that the current state of affairs at DPC can be characterized by the existence of some voters who don't "get" it, even when they should or could by being a bit less inflexible and narrow-minded. We do live with this and it is a fact of life. |
It's not a "fact", it's YOUR OPINION. It's also name-calling and intolerance of people who don't see things exactly the way you do. This is the problem we have in our political discourse as well.
rugman has his guidelines (max of 2) for what he considers DNMC. I have mine - max of 5. The 5 represents my "flexibility and open mindedness" in giving some benefit of the doubt on the topic on what I consider an outstanding image. I don't criticize those who outright disregard the topic when voting as if they were all free studies - that's their prerogative. |
Thank you Art. I am glad you are understanding of this sucject in basically the same way I am. You are right, everybody has their own way of seeing things, and their own voting style. I would rather have people voting than not, regardless. My flexibility and openness IS different from many, because I see black and white, and sometimes a touch of gray. As you can see by my entries, everyone meets the challenge with no doubt left in your mind. I feel if you can't follow the rules, you deserve a poor score, since many others tried to follow the rules. Let's take a test. You get 10 out of 100 wrong, but feel you should get a 50 instead of a 10 score. Is that right to everybody else who studied for the test and made an effort to do it right? Nope, it isn't, and I feel the same way when voting in a challenge. I may have missed a "meaning" in a photo a time or two, and voted wrong, but I am sure it is rare. I usually look at the photo well before I cast a vote. |
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08/24/2011 03:58:15 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
I won't go over 10 for a DNMC image and I won't go under 1 for an image that meets the challenge.
meeting the challenge *is* a part of my scoring, though. It's another way to tick me off and make me vote you lower. It's another way to please me and make me vote you higher. In spite of what I said, it's rare I'll give a 10 for dnmc or a 1 if it meets the challenge (I rarely give 1s anyway, more out of laziness than principle). |
ROFLMAO!!! |
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08/24/2011 03:59:21 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This isn't directed at anyone in particular.....
Keep in mind, it's the photographer's job to communicate the topic connection. If the voter doesn't see it, the photog failed in that regard. Sure some people are very literal, but voting on all aspects is subjective, so deal with it and don't disparage voters who don't "get" and/or highly value the topic connection. It is not the voters who are being judged, nor should they be.
... |
It's true that the current state of affairs at DPC can be characterized by the existence of some voters who don't "get" it, even when they should or could by being a bit less inflexible and narrow-minded. We do live with this and it is a fact of life. |
It's not a "fact", it's YOUR OPINION. It's also name-calling and intolerance of people who don't see things exactly the way you do. This is the problem we have in our political discourse as well.
rugman has his guidelines (max of 2) for what he considers DNMC. I have mine - max of 5. The 5 represents my "flexibility and open mindedness" in giving some benefit of the doubt on the topic on what I consider an outstanding image. I don't criticize those who outright disregard the topic when voting as if they were all free studies - that's their prerogative. |
Some people are too ignorant to understand the creative interpretation of some challenges. I don't think there's anything to be done about it. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt they are simply oblivious & unaware... rather than just downright petty. |
Darn Richard, you ever stop and think it just may be you and not everyone else??? JEEZ... |
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08/24/2011 04:11:21 PM · #42 |
Ha...funny thread.
I'll usually take some points off if it is a shoehorn or DNMC. I'll vote my "fair" shoehorn vote. However, I'll usually put a little zinger in the comments. For example:
 Or 
Makes it fun!
Message edited by author 2011-08-24 16:12:53. |
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08/24/2011 04:23:44 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
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It's your loss that you can't see the connection to the challenge. To me it's quite obvious that this picture was taken specifically for the challenge. |
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08/24/2011 04:28:16 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by kenskid:
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It's your loss that you can't see the connection to the challenge. To me it's quite obvious that this picture was taken specifically for the challenge. |
I SEE IT!!! The shape of the wave looks like a clock face! HA |
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08/24/2011 04:33:42 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Darn Richard, you ever stop and think it just may be you and not everyone else??? JEEZ... |
For what it's worth, i lean towards Richard's way of thinking on this but i can't say i'm hugely bothered about it all really. I don't look for, or see, many DNMCs as a voter-viewer and if i get a DNMC type comment i shrug it off and mark it as helpful. |
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08/24/2011 04:41:16 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by kenskid:
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It's your loss that you can't see the connection to the challenge. To me it's quite obvious that this picture was taken specifically for the challenge. |
I SEE IT!!! The shape of the wave looks like a clock face! HA |
"Metaphor is one of a group of problem-solving medicines known as figures of speech which are normally used to treat literal thinking and other diseases." GM
Buy now before the Worlds stock diminishes!!!!
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08/24/2011 04:48:16 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This isn't directed at anyone in particular.....
Keep in mind, it's the photographer's job to communicate the topic connection. If the voter doesn't see it, the photog failed in that regard. Sure some people are very literal, but voting on all aspects is subjective, so deal with it and don't disparage voters who don't "get" and/or highly value the topic connection. It is not the voters who are being judged, nor should they be.
... |
It's true that the current state of affairs at DPC can be characterized by the existence of some voters who don't "get" it, even when they should or could by being a bit less inflexible and narrow-minded. We do live with this and it is a fact of life. |
It's not a "fact", it's YOUR OPINION. It's also name-calling and intolerance of people who don't see things exactly the way you do. This is the problem we have in our political discourse as well.
rugman has his guidelines (max of 2) for what he considers DNMC. I have mine - max of 5. The 5 represents my "flexibility and open mindedness" in giving some benefit of the doubt on the topic on what I consider an outstanding image. I don't criticize those who outright disregard the topic when voting as if they were all free studies - that's their prerogative. |
Thank you Art. I am glad you are understanding of this sucject in basically the same way I am. You are right, everybody has their own way of seeing things, and their own voting style. I would rather have people voting than not, regardless. My flexibility and openness IS different from many, because I see black and white, and sometimes a touch of gray. As you can see by my entries, everyone meets the challenge with no doubt left in your mind. I feel if you can't follow the rules, you deserve a poor score, since many others tried to follow the rules. Let's take a test. You get 10 out of 100 wrong, but feel you should get a 50 instead of a 10 score. Is that right to everybody else who studied for the test and made an effort to do it right? Nope, it isn't, and I feel the same way when voting in a challenge. I may have missed a "meaning" in a photo a time or two, and voted wrong, but I am sure it is rare. I usually look at the photo well before I cast a vote. |
I feel strongly both ways. :)
I'm never sure if it's my own ignorance or lack of cultural awareness that has me misunderstanding an entry. To make up a simple, silly example: Let's say the challenge was "starts with Q". And someone takes a photo of a long line of people. Brits might easily understand that it's a picture of a queue. Many Americans might not get it at all. Perhaps it's a challenge "starts with P", and I entered a photo of 7-up. I grew up in the midwest -- and we called it pop. Not soda. Until I traveled a little more, I didn't realize that pop wasn't universal. When I first moved to Virginia, the stores had no idea what Rhubarb was. I don't expect everyone to create incredibly obvious titles explaining their entry. But if I put in a picture of rhubarb, it would be annoying to receive a DNMC just because someone had no idea what rhubarb was.
So most of the time, I assume that if I can't see why it meets the challenge, I may be missing something, and I give it the benefit of the doubt. I'll knock of 1-3 points because I do think it's partially the photographers fault, but I'm not going to give it a 1 because it may be my own ignorance.
I wanted to be creative for the "rocks" challenge. So I went to the college and asked if I could photograph some of their fossil collection. I even titled the image: "think about it... fossils ARE rocks!" -- I still got a comment: "The shot is very good. It's a stretch that the main subject (dinosaur remains) is considered a rock."
Some images are incredibly obvious that people are thumbing their nose at the topic. They get a 3. Not a 1, because I figure they're going for brown, and I'm not playing into that game, either. :) |
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08/24/2011 04:55:27 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
I feel strongly both ways. :) |
That's how I feel most of the time.
(but not in the bedroom) |
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08/24/2011 04:59:07 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by vawendy:
I feel strongly both ways. :) |
That's how I feel most of the time.
(but not in the bedroom) |
Lies. LOL.
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08/24/2011 05:04:31 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
This isn't directed at anyone in particular.....
Keep in mind, it's the photographer's job to communicate the topic connection. If the voter doesn't see it, the photog failed in that regard. Sure some people are very literal, but voting on all aspects is subjective, so deal with it and don't disparage voters who don't "get" and/or highly value the topic connection. It is not the voters who are being judged, nor should they be.
... |
It's true that the current state of affairs at DPC can be characterized by the existence of some voters who don't "get" it, even when they should or could by being a bit less inflexible and narrow-minded. We do live with this and it is a fact of life. |
It's not a "fact", it's YOUR OPINION. It's also name-calling and intolerance of people who don't see things exactly the way you do. This is the problem we have in our political discourse as well.
rugman has his guidelines (max of 2) for what he considers DNMC. I have mine - max of 5. The 5 represents my "flexibility and open mindedness" in giving some benefit of the doubt on the topic on what I consider an outstanding image. I don't criticize those who outright disregard the topic when voting as if they were all free studies - that's their prerogative. |
Thank you Art. I am glad you are understanding of this sucject in basically the same way I am. You are right, everybody has their own way of seeing things, and their own voting style. I would rather have people voting than not, regardless. My flexibility and openness IS different from many, because I see black and white, and sometimes a touch of gray. As you can see by my entries, everyone meets the challenge with no doubt left in your mind. I feel if you can't follow the rules, you deserve a poor score, since many others tried to follow the rules. Let's take a test. You get 10 out of 100 wrong, but feel you should get a 50 instead of a 10 score. Is that right to everybody else who studied for the test and made an effort to do it right? Nope, it isn't, and I feel the same way when voting in a challenge. I may have missed a "meaning" in a photo a time or two, and voted wrong, but I am sure it is rare. I usually look at the photo well before I cast a vote. |
I feel strongly both ways. :)
I'm never sure if it's my own ignorance or lack of cultural awareness that has me misunderstanding an entry. To make up a simple, silly example: Let's say the challenge was "starts with Q". And someone takes a photo of a long line of people. Brits might easily understand that it's a picture of a queue. Many Americans might not get it at all. Perhaps it's a challenge "starts with P", and I entered a photo of 7-up. I grew up in the midwest -- and we called it pop. Not soda. Until I traveled a little more, I didn't realize that pop wasn't universal. When I first moved to Virginia, the stores had no idea what Rhubarb was. I don't expect everyone to create incredibly obvious titles explaining their entry. But if I put in a picture of rhubarb, it would be annoying to receive a DNMC just because someone had no idea what rhubarb was.
So most of the time, I assume that if I can't see why it meets the challenge, I may be missing something, and I give it the benefit of the doubt. I'll knock of 1-3 points because I do think it's partially the photographers fault, but I'm not going to give it a 1 because it may be my own ignorance.
I wanted to be creative for the "rocks" challenge. So I went to the college and asked if I could photograph some of their fossil collection. I even titled the image: "think about it... fossils ARE rocks!" -- I still got a comment: "The shot is very good. It's a stretch that the main subject (dinosaur remains) is considered a rock."
Some images are incredibly obvious that people are thumbing their nose at the topic. They get a 3. Not a 1, because I figure they're going for brown, and I'm not playing into that game, either. :) |
I see your point, but it's really not the simple examples you described. For instance, in the "c" challenge...take a picture of something that begins with the letter "c", if you take a ladder and form it into the shape of a "c" and submit that, that is a DNMC, because ladder does not start with a "c". just because you shape it into a "c" does not make it start with the letter "c". |
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