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07/20/2004 07:18:48 PM · #1 |
No, I am not going to show you how to compose a picture or what f stops to use or what lens. But there is one big piece of advise that I guarantee will have you taking better pictures within a couple of weeks.
Ready? Okay...There are many photographers on this site and the majority have some beautiful specimens of good photography. However, you will learn the most by going back over the challenges. Read the challenge and observe the response from each entry.
Yes, just by looking and studying you will see what you consider your approach: you will be bowled over by the superior imagination and yes, you will stare in amazement at the use of technique and what can be accomplished in basic editing.
Consider this: you have at your finger tips a wealth of lessons and do not be affraid to email the photographers and ask them questions.
I can assure you, even the most experienced can gain valuable knowledge by following the challenge entries. It is a focused subject.
Go at it and your shots will improve beyond your dreams.
Of all the internet sites, this is simply the best. Hey: there is a lot that I want to learn and I find a lesson everyday...you will too. |
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07/20/2004 07:47:41 PM · #2 |
Well said. And when you actually make an entry in a challenge, it can be hard to swallow the feedback sometimes, but you do learn -- I have.
Message edited by author 2004-07-20 19:49:00. |
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07/20/2004 08:26:37 PM · #3 |
I have to say that I think that what you are saying is very true. This site is great for learning.
When I first entered this site few months ago I had hardly touched a camera and knew nothing about photography. Still I´m not as good as most of you here but I think and hope I´m improving.
Think there is nothing that comes in stead of going to the library or the bookstore and get books about basic stuff and books that showes the work of talented pros and then go out and experiment with new techniqes and ideas.
But this site is absolutly great to compare your stuff with others and get honest feedback and to keep you "focused" and interested in photography. |
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07/20/2004 08:42:27 PM · #4 |
hell yeah I got my 10D just about a year ago And I didnt know about anything about the camera appertures shutter speeds ISO and lighting or whatever, I just used auto And I have learned it all just from this site, especially giving comments and receving them. I think I have improved a lot since then At least I know how the end picture is gonna look like when I take it now. Before I had point and shoot camera and never knew if the picture was gonna turn out good or bad, well I still have a lot to learn and I´m not leaving this place :p
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07/20/2004 08:57:09 PM · #5 |
Maybe you should take a look at the results in the challenges for the last weeks and months heida and maybe also at the top favorite photographers at the site favorites.
You´ve had a very fast improvments, that´s obvious but it´s also very clear that you had and still have some natural talent. |
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07/20/2004 09:09:51 PM · #6 |
I learn something new EVERY TIME I come here! This is my photog drug! :-)
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07/20/2004 09:26:31 PM · #7 |
| I agree and commend Graphicfunk for pointing this out. I take it step further... when I see a photo that I think is technically stunning, I look at the photographer's comments (or ask) about their set-up. Then I try to recreate it. Successful or not I don't do anything with these photos - usually just delete them but it's a really powerful learning tool, especially for lighting which is my current obsession. |
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07/20/2004 09:36:58 PM · #8 |
As a P.S. Those of you who are members consider expending the 25.00 or whatever it is to become a subscriber and do not miss a challenge. Nothing like competing. It helps you think twice before pressing the shutter. It hones your instincts. I say go for it, you will never regret it.
No, I do not get a comission. I think this place is just too reasonable. Go for it !
Message edited by author 2004-07-20 21:38:20. |
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07/20/2004 09:39:32 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by digistoune:
I agree and commend Graphicfunk for pointing this out. I take it step further... when I see a photo that I think is technically stunning, I look at the photographer's comments (or ask) about their set-up. Then I try to recreate it. Successful or not I don't do anything with these photos - usually just delete them but it's a really powerful learning tool, especially for lighting which is my current obsession. |
The only thing that can be really frustrating is when I see a shot I love and find the comments to be sparse, or not including technical details. I'd love it if there were a way to motivate people to spend more time in the details!
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07/20/2004 09:44:14 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by cghubbell:
Originally posted by digistoune:
I agree and commend Graphicfunk for pointing this out. I take it step further... when I see a photo that I think is technically stunning, I look at the photographer's comments (or ask) about their set-up. Then I try to recreate it. Successful or not I don't do anything with these photos - usually just delete them but it's a really powerful learning tool, especially for lighting which is my current obsession. |
The only thing that can be really frustrating is when I see a shot I love and find the comments to be sparse, or not including technical details. I'd love it if there were a way to motivate people to spend more time in the details! |
I know! But I have yet to run across anyone that has been bothered by my sending them a PM or an email to request info because I liked their photo. Good people here! |
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07/20/2004 09:48:07 PM · #11 |
If you can get your hands on it, try an old film SLR. One with NO automatic features.
I learned on a Pentax Spotmatic II using black&white Ilford film and chemicals. Now, you don't have to do black and white, you can just go to your local mini-lab with your colour roll.
The level of understaning you get from seeing that little pin on the side of the viewfinder stay in the middle is enourmous.
You control 3 things to get the perfect exposure: Aperture, Shutter Speed, and focus.
Try it. Just look on ebay.
//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15240&item=3829089074&rd=1 |
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07/21/2004 12:14:49 AM · #12 |
Technical details... hmm...
Shoot what makes you happy. I have yet to find a definition of 'technically good photograph'.
Photography should, first and foremost, be self fulfilling. If you are happy with what you are doing, then nothing else matters. Technical details don't matter...
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07/21/2004 12:37:46 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Technical details... hmm...
Shoot what makes you happy. I have yet to find a definition of 'technically good photograph'.
Photography should, first and foremost, be self fulfilling. If you are happy with what you are doing, then nothing else matters. Technical details don't matter... |
I believe this, too. However, as you create photographs more and more, you may just find yourself wanting to know the technical side so you can really capture what you want...
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07/21/2004 12:41:01 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by dsidwell:
I believe this, too. However, as you create photographs more and more, you may just find yourself wanting to know the technical side so you can really capture what you want... |
Knowing the technicals is definitely important. I didn't mean to imply that it's not. It's not important, however, to have great photographs. It is overrated on dpchallenge though. The subject choices aren't usually given enough weight.
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07/21/2004 12:50:19 AM · #15 |
my question (to myself) is... What is the point of interest in this shot?
and why?
and then I usually throw it in the trash if it has none. |
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07/21/2004 01:01:32 AM · #16 |
| I find it interesting that very few of the people who have responded to this thread actually NEED to learn how to take better pictures. ;-) |
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07/21/2004 01:12:22 AM · #17 |
Photography should, first and foremost, be self fulfilling. If you are happy with what you are doing, then nothing else matters. Technical details don't matter...
I take a respectful disagreement with the above. Taking pictures entails a little more skill then pressing a shutter. It is a two step process of conception and execution. On the execution side the more skill you have the better your presentation. You will learn to get what you want. On the conception side you will know what will work or not work. We are assuming there is a tinge of visual talent.
Of course, you can downplay it and say nothing matters. Look at some of the superb shots on this site and tell me if they just happened without the grace of skill.
It is okay to shoot what makes one happy, but eventually one realizes that many shots can be saved by a litle knowledge. No, there are no technically perfect pictures, too much skill is required to reach that un attainable level.
Message edited by author 2004-07-21 01:15:52. |
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07/21/2004 01:43:41 AM · #18 |
My best advice is -
Take photos you'd be proud to have framed on your wall. If you don't like it, chances are other's won't either.
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07/21/2004 02:08:34 AM · #19 |
Discipline yourself to look at things (everything) differently. Look where you have never looked before. Look more closely at things you've looked at a 1000 times before. You'll be suprised at what you have missed. Once you start saying to yourself "You know I've never noticed that" then Pick up your camera and start shooting everything that you have taken in.
Move around your subject; look at it from different angles. Don't just snap a shot off because it is easier on you. That's where snap shots come from, anyone can do that. Dare to be different.
Learn how to see things differently than everyone else does. Some can just see things, others need to learn but it is a very important part in breaking out of the snapshot duldrum.
That is my driving force and that might be what I suggest to a noob. Wait I'm a noob to Digital Photog. Hmmmm... |
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07/21/2004 03:05:33 AM · #20 |
The best thing to learn on is still film, (especially B&W), on a manual SLR, with a 50mm Prime lens.
It forces you to think about what you are about to shoot. It also forces you to frame what you are shooting without relying on zoom.
Also, film is more expensive, and you are less likely to take "happy snaps". |
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07/21/2004 07:32:56 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by wimbello:
The best thing to learn on is still film, (especially B&W), on a manual SLR, with a 50mm Prime lens.
It forces you to think about what you are about to shoot. It also forces you to frame what you are shooting without relying on zoom.
Also, film is more expensive, and you are less likely to take "happy snaps". |
I don't disagree, but I couldn't afford to do photography if digital wasn't an option. That's what's so exciting about photography these days... digital is deepening the gene pool of talent, if you will.
Now if I could just find a nice digital SLR for cheap on eBay... ;-) |
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07/21/2004 08:14:22 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by wimbello:
The best thing to learn on is still film, (especially B&W), on a manual SLR, with a 50mm Prime lens. |
I understand your rationale, but I don't agree with it. I took photography in college with a 35mm film camera, and learned all sorts of framing, lighting and darkroom techniques. Although I aced the class, I think you can get a better education with any digital camera (not just DSLR) and a notepad. Digital cameras allow you to take thousands of shots for "free." You can test all sorts of camera settings, angles, and lighting and see the results immediately.
To me, the key is learning to conceptualize and critique your own work. Neither camera will force you to do that, but at least digicams allow you to experiment without a penalty in time and money. |
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07/21/2004 09:06:46 AM · #23 |
Actually, the best was slide film since there is not much leeway given for processing. With film you don't know what the post processing was. With B & W if you were doing your own darkroom work you could see where you were going wrong.
I have to agree though, that digital gives you the best learning environment due to the free clicks and instant feedback.
One thing to do with digital is to check the histogram to see if your exposure is where you want it. Anything that runs off either end of the histogram indicates lost detail in the shadows/hightlights. If this is what you were aiming for then that's ok otherwise use this to learn and adjust the exposure to take the shot again.
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07/21/2004 09:07:30 AM · #24 |
To me photography is an art and a craft. The craft encompasses the technical aspects of framing, DOF, exposure, ... As a technician, I find the craft of photography fascinating. Now that I believe I have a good underlying grasp of the craft, my attention has turned to the art - the creative side of photography. That's where I find DPC to be of tremendous benefit. The challenges inspire whatever creative energies I might have.
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07/21/2004 09:32:49 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
Photography should, first and foremost, be self fulfilling. If you are happy with what you are doing, then nothing else matters. Technical details don't matter...
I take a respectful disagreement with the above. Taking pictures entails a little more skill then pressing a shutter. It is a two step process of conception and execution. On the execution side the more skill you have the better your presentation. You will learn to get what you want. On the conception side you will know what will work or not work. We are assuming there is a tinge of visual talent.
Of course, you can downplay it and say nothing matters. Look at some of the superb shots on this site and tell me if they just happened without the grace of skill.
It is okay to shoot what makes one happy, but eventually one realizes that many shots can be saved by a litle knowledge. No, there are no technically perfect pictures, too much skill is required to reach that un attainable level. |
I think the point jmseltzer was making is that it's not important to create a photo that will do well on DPC. What's important is to be able to experience something you wish to preserve photographically, then envision it in your mind, and create THAT image.
First and foremost, photography must be pleasing to the photographer. It is very difficult to develop a unique style when you are constantly tuning your technique to pleasing the masses rather than exploring your own artistic sense of composition. I believe that a _primary_ goal of pleasing everyone will cause you miss things you would otherwise be able to turn into unique self-reflecting works because not everyone would identify with them. There's nothing wrong with wanting people to like your shots as a secondary goal as long as its your personal aesthetics driving the camera.
Where DPC comes in very handy is helping a photographer to see new things that appeal to their senses. These findings can then be layered on your technique to expand in directions you might not otherwise find. The driving force however is still pleasing the photographer - not the masses.
The corollary to this is that in most cases a photographer with a well developed style, as described above, gathers an audience as a side effect of their creative journey. If you take the time to develop your personal style, the rest will come naturally.
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