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07/18/2011 06:33:14 PM · #1
...are closing down. By this winter, there will be another 10,500 people looking for a job :(

Technology! Is it good or bad for us? I still can't figure that out... Seems like while technology is growing, population should go down, because we need less workers... but it happens in both legs, technology and population is growing same. Although we need more brainers not muscles these days, even the competition between brainers (techies) too high.

..plus, we live much longer now :-\
07/18/2011 06:58:59 PM · #2
Ebooks are killing the publishing industry in so many ways.

Publishing houses are struggling, I've seen 3-4 indie book stores die out recently. Book design is down. It really is a problem. And man, does it really suck to have books in a digital format only. There's so much lost in translation. I don't want a Kindle, I want the smell of paper, writing in the margins, post-it notes stuck to pages I want to return to. Margins that are different, and typography that relates.

07/18/2011 07:17:26 PM · #3
I'm not surprised Borders is closing. Their prices are kind of high. Why pay their prices when I can get it for 30% off at Target? Or better yet, free from the library.
07/18/2011 09:53:54 PM · #4
I liked the store here (there were probably more than one, but I only went to that one) but I prefer Barnes and Noble. I remember Dalton Books in the mall years ago, and they are no longer either. I guess with Amazon and so many online retailers, people just don't go to bookstores like they used to. Plus, there's Kindle......
07/18/2011 09:57:28 PM · #5
Originally posted by Jutilda:

I guess with Amazon and so many online retailers, people just don't go to bookstores like they used to. Plus, there's Kindle......


Kindle IS Amazon, lock, stock, and barrel...

R.
07/18/2011 10:17:00 PM · #6
I didn't buy many books in the nearby store, but it was a good place to pick up magazines: those that I didn't want to subscribe to, and I could just go in now & again to pick up the issues that looked good--especially imported magazines.

The downsizing and cost cutting really hurt their surviving stores' chances of doing better: even after surviving the first store closing round, and becoming the only remaining store in 50 miles, the one near me closed all but one register, cut staff--even though they suddenly had more customers. They didn't have more customers for long, though, as the limited staff and long lines at the single open register was such a bad experience, people just gave up on it. The effect of cutting costs was a degraded in-store experience that made online shopping more attractive to customers who formerly preferred the brick and mortar experience.

It is a shame, but the market, demand, and technology is changing fast. Cameras went digital, now books, magazines, newspapers are going that way, too.
07/18/2011 11:02:11 PM · #7
Originally posted by chromeydome:

It is a shame, but the market, demand, and technology is changing fast. Cameras went digital, now books, magazines, newspapers are going that way, too.

Get used to it. It's the future. I went all digital five years ago.
07/18/2011 11:11:44 PM · #8
Originally posted by jamesgoss:

Ebooks are killing the publishing industry in so many ways.

Publishing houses are struggling, I've seen 3-4 indie book stores die out recently. Book design is down. It really is a problem. And man, does it really suck to have books in a digital format only. There's so much lost in translation. I don't want a Kindle, I want the smell of paper, writing in the margins, post-it notes stuck to pages I want to return to. Margins that are different, and typography that relates.


+1

I have no desire to read electronically, I love using newspapers for things beside just reading (like packing up antique dishes, and keep sakes...etc.) I will continue to purchase hard back books as long as I can! Thank goodness for the used bookstores and estate sales should we lose our precious books!!!
07/18/2011 11:23:23 PM · #9
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

...are closing down. By this winter, there will be another 10,500 people looking for a job :(

Technology! Is it good or bad for us? I still can't figure that out... Seems like while technology is growing, population should go down, because we need less workers... but it happens in both legs, technology and population is growing same. Although we need more brainers not muscles these days, even the competition between brainers (techies) too high.

..plus, we live much longer now :-\


So basically you're saying...we're screwed. To which I would say...I concur. :(
07/18/2011 11:27:52 PM · #10
Originally posted by bergiekat:

Originally posted by jamesgoss:

Ebooks are killing the publishing industry in so many ways.

Publishing houses are struggling, I've seen 3-4 indie book stores die out recently. Book design is down. It really is a problem. And man, does it really suck to have books in a digital format only. There's so much lost in translation. I don't want a Kindle, I want the smell of paper, writing in the margins, post-it notes stuck to pages I want to return to. Margins that are different, and typography that relates.


+1

I have no desire to read electronically, I love using newspapers for things beside just reading (like packing up antique dishes, and keep sakes...etc.) I will continue to purchase hard back books as long as I can! Thank goodness for the used bookstores and estate sales should we lose our precious books!!!


I totally agree. I love my books. Something tangible to grab and read. While I always embrace technology, and I'm an early adopter..not to mention I've spent my whole life working in the tech industry..I have long recognized the downfall of progress. Way to many people lose jobs over advanced manufacturing processes. As FocusPoint stated even the tech field has become saturated to the point where for every job opening there are 200 people looking to grab it. Worrisome to say the least.

Dave

07/19/2011 12:39:19 AM · #11
Like Chromey said, cameras went digital.

Film cameras did not, however, go extinct. It's just harder to find film, more expensive to buy film, and stores aren't as good at processing film.

Same with records/vinyl.

I figure the same will happen with books for quite some time. They will still be made, but they will be harder to find and much more expensive to buy.

It's neither good nor bad. Just evolution of the medium.
07/19/2011 12:51:56 AM · #12
I love books. I also love my kindle app, ibooks on my iphone, ipad. I can have a library with me, all my camera and equipment manuals in my pocket, and I can travel light. I also love to sit down with a book from the big stack waiting to to be read. It's not one or the other, it is both.

07/19/2011 09:33:07 AM · #13
Originally posted by chromeydome:

I love books. I also love my kindle app, ibooks on my iphone, ipad. I can have a library with me, all my camera and equipment manuals in my pocket, and I can travel light. I also love to sit down with a book from the big stack waiting to to be read. It's not one or the other, it is both.


Absolutely. I got mountains of books around here, and I also have a Kindle; the Kindle has mountains of books ON it. I took the Kindle on the 5-week California journey (bought it FOR that journey actually) and it's just terrific for traveling. Plus it has a Yahtzee™ game on it :-)

R.
07/19/2011 12:08:32 PM · #14
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by chromeydome:

I love books. I also love my kindle app, ibooks on my iphone, ipad. I can have a library with me, all my camera and equipment manuals in my pocket, and I can travel light. I also love to sit down with a book from the big stack waiting to to be read. It's not one or the other, it is both.


Absolutely. I got mountains of books around here, and I also have a Kindle; the Kindle has mountains of books ON it. I took the Kindle on the 5-week California journey (bought it FOR that journey actually) and it's just terrific for traveling. Plus it has a Yahtzee™ game on it :-)

R.


I'm with you guys. I have a Kindle and the Kindle app for my iPad, and I read most of my "recreational" books (fiction, mysteries, history, biography, etc.) on that. I love being able to carry as many books as I want around with me. (I'm the kind that used to take six books with me (just in case!) to Ventura, 28 miles away, for a Sunday afternoon.) I also like to be able to change the type size, and I love it that I never lose my place when I put the book down. Then there's the coooool factor in being able to buy and read a book at 3:00 a.m. without leaving my bedroom...

OTOH, for a cookbook or something that I am constantly referring to or skipping around in, I prefer the tried-and-true bound volume -- sticky notes and bookmarks beat the search function any time.
07/19/2011 12:44:07 PM · #15
I love Borders. It's my favorite place to go to sit with a cup of cafe mocha and leaf through books, many of them being photography resources. Nothing the Kindle can do to replace that. It will be a sad day if we get to the point where you don't have real pages to turn.

I have a Kindle and I love it. I also have an iPad2 and I enjoy that as well. But I also love the atmosphere of a book store and the feel of an old-fashioned book in my lap.
07/19/2011 01:26:38 PM · #16
Here is another angle that I think of after packing up my grandmother's house. The shelves and shelves of books, the old hand written letters, the post cards sent were like looking through a window to another time and pondering how life was or actually reading about how things were. They are now family treasures! Important information was found by reading some of those letters. The books were a major realization into how society as a whole has dumbed down dramatically from the turn of the century...but technology has definitely made things easier. Descriptive, eloquent speaking is rare anymore, you don't have to know how to spell and many wouldn't know if you were using correct grammar or even be cognizant of such.

I love the olds books I have! Hardback books last. Paperback was the next step in book evolution and they just don't hold up like a real book and with online books and Kindles...there will be nothing to pass on, nothing to share, no one will know what made you tick or what you did unless we keep our journals, cursive writing, physical books, newspapers, etc. and have the option for digital rather than bankrupting all of the traditional businesses for the sake of $$ and convenience. I digress, but I'm a firm believer that just because we can, doesn't necessarily mean WE SHOULD! Everything has it's place. Granted, but this is not an avenue to be going down IMO.

edited for 1 typo, lol!

*quietly steps off soapbox (non existent now) *

Message edited by author 2011-07-19 14:55:09.
07/19/2011 01:35:32 PM · #17
Originally posted by bergiekat:

Here is another angle that I think of after packing up my grandmother's house. The shelves and shelves of books, the old hand written letters, the post cards sent were like looking through a window to another time and pondering how life was or actually reading about how things were. They are now family treasures! Important information was found by reading some of those letters. The books were a major realization into how society as a whole has dumbed down dramatically from the turn of the century...but technology has definitely made things easier. Descriptive, eloquent speaking is rare anymore, you don't have to know how to spell and many wouldn't know if you were using correct grammar or even be cognizant of such.

I love the olds books I have! Hardback books last. Paperback was the next step in book evolution and they just don't hold up like a real book and with online books and Kindles...there will be nothing to pass on, nothing to share, no one will know what made you tick or what you did unless we keep our journals, cursive writing, physical books, newspapers, etc. and have the option for digital rather than bankrupting all of the traditional businesses for the sake of $$ and convenience. I digress, but I'm a firm believer that "Just because we can, doesn't necessarily mean WE SHOULD"! Everything has it's place. Granted, but this is not a avenue to be going down IMO.

*quietly steps off soapbox (non existent now) *


+1

...what she said...
07/19/2011 03:39:24 PM · #18
Originally posted by PuppyDogMom:

Originally posted by bergiekat:

Here is another angle that I think of after packing up my grandmother's house. The shelves and shelves of books, the old hand written letters, the post cards sent were like looking through a window to another time and pondering how life was or actually reading about how things were. They are now family treasures! Important information was found by reading some of those letters. The books were a major realization into how society as a whole has dumbed down dramatically from the turn of the century...but technology has definitely made things easier. Descriptive, eloquent speaking is rare anymore, you don't have to know how to spell and many wouldn't know if you were using correct grammar or even be cognizant of such.

I love the olds books I have! Hardback books last. Paperback was the next step in book evolution and they just don't hold up like a real book and with online books and Kindles...there will be nothing to pass on, nothing to share, no one will know what made you tick or what you did unless we keep our journals, cursive writing, physical books, newspapers, etc. and have the option for digital rather than bankrupting all of the traditional businesses for the sake of $$ and convenience. I digress, but I'm a firm believer that "Just because we can, doesn't necessarily mean WE SHOULD"! Everything has it's place. Granted, but this is not a avenue to be going down IMO.

*quietly steps off soapbox (non existent now) *


+1

...what she said...


^ditto that
07/19/2011 04:02:47 PM · #19
I was thinking about this today, and really had it in my head that the problems with Borders had more to do with just ebooks taking hold in the market place. Barnes and Nobles does quite well so I decided to research more and typed something like Borders book sales vs. Barnes and Nobles book sales into Google to see what came up.

Basically a number of links like the one I'll post here that support what I was thinking, and outline bigger issues that effect the bottom line of Borders books rather than just ebook technology. In short...a lot of bad business strategy compared to Barnes and Nobles.

//www.quora.com/Borders-Books/Why-is-Barnes-and-Noble-performing-well-as-a-business-while-Borders-has-filed-for-bankruptcy

The assessment was written by Mark Evans who was the former Director of Merchandise Planning & Analysis at Borders until 2009. So obviously someone inside with direct knowledge of what was going on at Borders.

Dave

Message edited by author 2011-07-19 16:27:03.
07/19/2011 04:19:46 PM · #20
Big Box Stores have killed many small businesses in the past 15 years. Some of these have no business selling books (i.e. Costco) Just like how the death of certain technologies has seen the rise of independent boutique businesses to carry on the sale of special interest products like current vinyl records and obsolete services like specialized film processing labs after the giants like Kodak end their support. We all squawked that Big Box would be the death of our downtown's and Mom and Pop shops. It was, but now with interest in urban renewal and large conglomerates using the distribution of digital media in these challenging economic times as an excuse (in part) to close shop, the return of quality urban shops will pick up the slack dropped by chains like Borders and once again retail an eclectic product offering to their customers. Maybe you'll download the trashy novel to your eBook but you WILL pick up a high quality coffee table photo book at these stores and the quality of the books that do get published should increase to capture our attention just like how Hollywood strives to offer an unrepeatable cinema experience to get you out of the house and into a theatre seat (eg.3D) and the rest of the crap goes straight to DVD ummm I mean download.
07/19/2011 08:59:50 PM · #21
I read a quote from an author today that reminded me of this thread.
"Those that think ebooks are the way of the future don't have a very good grasp on the present."
07/19/2011 09:53:54 PM · #22
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:

I was thinking about this today, and really had it in my head that the problems with Borders had more to do with just ebooks taking hold in the market place. Barnes and Nobles does quite well so I decided to research more and typed something like Borders book sales vs. Barnes and Nobles book sales into Google to see what came up.

Basically a number of links like the one I'll post here that support what I was thinking, and outline bigger issues that effect the bottom line of Borders books rather than just ebook technology. In short...a lot of bad business strategy compared to Barnes and Nobles.

//www.quora.com/Borders-Books/Why-is-Barnes-and-Noble-performing-well-as-a-business-while-Borders-has-filed-for-bankruptcy

The assessment was written by Mark Evans who was the former Director of Merchandise Planning & Analysis at Borders until 2009. So obviously someone inside with direct knowledge of what was going on at Borders.

Dave


Thanks for sharing this. It confirms some thoughts that I had had for some time.

We lost our Borders and Barnes & Noble in a six week period. Barnes & Noble closed because of a rapacious landlord -- they just weren't willing to pay the outlandish rent increase. Borders closed because of financial problems which were pretty much as described in the cited article.

I don't miss Borders that much because books were no longer their main focus. I used to love to browse (and buy) books at Borders, but at the end, the books were down in the basement, and good luck finding anyone to help you find something. The main floor was mostly a coffee shop (mediocre) and lots of merchandise along the lines of matching Hello Kitty backpacks, binders, etc., clever book lights, post cards, greeting cards, tote bags, coffee mugs... you get the idea. They did have a really good magazine section, though, and I do miss that.

Borders certainly missed to boat with internet sales. One time I had a gift card and wanted to buy something that wasn't available in the store. They didn't have it on-line either, and I was routed to Amazon...
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