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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> what do you think of this?
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07/10/2011 02:02:03 AM · #1
simply an image, curves levels, nothing more then a dark room can produce. There should be a RAW challenge.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_961113.jpg
07/10/2011 02:19:06 AM · #2
Well, curves levels is not no editing at all is it. It falls under basic editing, not minimal. And a dark room can, and did for over 150 years, produce images that were at home in advanced or expert editing. I'm not sure what the point of a RAW challenge would be . Plus it would be impractical having to upload that many RAW files. It's a pretty image though that's for sure. It's lovely what nature can do. Perhaps we can have a challenge where we do away with the photographs altogether and just write how pretty the sky is today. There is a Strange Skies side challenge though so you might want to put it in that.
07/10/2011 02:26:09 AM · #3
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:

Well, curves levels is not no editing at all is it. It falls under basic editing, not minimal. And a dark room can, and did for over 150 years, produce images that were at home in advanced or expert editing. I'm not sure what the point of a RAW challenge would be . Plus it would be impractical having to upload that many RAW files. It's a pretty image though that's for sure. It's lovely what nature can do. Perhaps we can have a challenge where we do away with the photographs altogether and just write how pretty the sky is today. There is a Strange Skies side challenge though so you might want to put it in that.

lols. today, a RAW image is only 56 meg for my camera. I cannot think of many cameras that cannot produce a raw image. My almost free cost website has no memory restrictions. Darkroom work was no where near advanced editting. The rest of your statement is just emotive pap.
07/10/2011 02:33:42 AM · #4
So you think it's practical for 60-150 people to upload 56mb Raw images for a challenge for, what precisely? Just so you can prove you can point your expensive camera at a nice sky and click the shutter? I think that's where the emotive pap is to be honest.

Message edited by author 2011-07-10 03:30:18.
07/10/2011 02:40:47 AM · #5
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:

So you think it's practical for 60-150 people to upload 56mb Raw images for a challenge for, what precisely? Just so you can prove you can point your expensive camera at a nice sky and click the shutter? I think that's where the emotive pap is to be honest.

sure, at one time there were 300+ people entering challenges here. again, the rest of your comment is emotive pap. I think people really want to be photographers... not digital artisits. Learning to be a photogrpher and a photoshop wizard is two different things. I feel people would benefit more, feel more pride and learn more if they could do it all in camera on site.
07/10/2011 02:54:27 AM · #6
Lots of potential in this photo.

But too much curves or levels. Maybe more subtle editing or use some substantial masking.
07/10/2011 02:58:03 AM · #7
It's a bit of a Groundhog Day issue here really, it comes up so often. But really, it obviously isn't practical to have a RAW challenge- 56mb is a huge leap up from 300k and a challenge like that would be totally unfair on those with modem level internet connection. I lived in Egypt when i joined DPC and i would never have entered a challenge if i had to upload a RAW; it would have taken all night.

Besides-we already have minimal editing challenges which are straight out the camera challenges which seems to be what you're after. As to the whole photography/digital art thing. I always think that argument belies a lack of knowledge of the history of photography and photographic darkroom techniques. Your comment 'nothing more then a dark room can produce' says to me that you have spent very little time flexing your creativity in a darkroom to be honest. I mean, most of the tools in Photoshop are actually named after darkroom tools!. Dodging, burning, masking etc. Did you think Adobe just made up these terms?!

Message edited by author 2011-07-10 04:02:10.
07/10/2011 03:40:06 AM · #8
I agree with Clive. At a minimum, shoot raw, then convert to jpeg, to get smaller files for your idea of a RAW challenge.

Most raw images are washed out and need some correction as you implied to satisfy the photographer. I would like to see everybody pick up their 35mm rangefinders, SLRs, or point and shoots, and use the uncorrected print from the lab (or negative from your kitchen), as the straight from the camera entry. I'm guessing most folks would not be pleased with the final image compared to a processed jpeg file from a late model DSLR/Point and shoot, but just might prefer the SFTC film image compared to the SFTC RAW file. I don't consider the RAW file comparable to a film negative, apples and oranges, yeah? A useful explanation of RAW for those interested. I do shoot in RAW, rarely JPEG, as I like to have a bit more control over the contrast and final exposure, but most importantly, I much prefer RAW based BWs in post than a JPEG from my hand held computer with a lens. ;)
07/10/2011 04:09:51 AM · #9
I also agree with Clive. Can't see the point of a Raw only challenge. We have minimal editing, which is essentially straight out of the camera, why do we need anything else?
07/10/2011 04:28:57 AM · #10
Originally posted by TheDruid:

Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:

Well, curves levels is not no editing at all is it. It falls under basic editing, not minimal. And a dark room can, and did for over 150 years, produce images that were at home in advanced or expert editing. I'm not sure what the point of a RAW challenge would be . Plus it would be impractical having to upload that many RAW files. It's a pretty image though that's for sure. It's lovely what nature can do. Perhaps we can have a challenge where we do away with the photographs altogether and just write how pretty the sky is today. There is a Strange Skies side challenge though so you might want to put it in that.

lols. today, a RAW image is only 56 meg for my camera. I cannot think of many cameras that cannot produce a raw image. My almost free cost website has no memory restrictions. Darkroom work was no where near advanced editting. The rest of your statement is just emotive pap.


Between 1914 and 1916 Frank Hurley was the on the infamous Antarctic Expedition where he took many photographs. Some of which he remove objects from and added others as well as adding Sydney skies to his wartime images. This was not revealed until much later in his life when it caused quite a controversy. Now adding and removing elements is not allowed in Advanced but is so under the Expert Editing rules. Oh and guess what...he didn't have a computer to do this...only a dark room!!! So I guess your emotive pap statement is incorrect!
07/10/2011 04:37:05 AM · #11
I like my emotive pap. I keep it in a jar by my bed. It's like Flubber.

But really, this is quite a confusing thread 21_N.gif TheDruid. You seem to be suggesting a straight from the camera RAW challenge but on the image you have posted as an example you have changed curves/levels basically DQing yourself from your own challenge.

Message edited by author 2011-07-10 05:40:59.
07/10/2011 06:47:38 AM · #12
Its over processed.
07/10/2011 11:50:05 AM · #13
And it's a knockout, The Druids out for the count.
07/10/2011 06:11:10 PM · #14
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:

I like my emotive pap. I keep it in a jar by my bed. It's like Flubber.

But really, this is quite a confusing thread 21_N.gif TheDruid. You seem to be suggesting a straight from the camera RAW challenge but on the image you have posted as an example you have changed curves/levels basically DQing yourself from your own challenge.


in a jar by your bed? You must have bunk beds >.<

Ummm, the image up above is what started me thinking that all that can be done in basic editting, then I started thinking about a show I see every now and then on the teli about Photographers going head to head where one will only be left ... etc (The challenge was about connecting to the subject). Which then lead to me thinking about Ansel Adams when he said "A great photograph is one that fully expresses what one feels, in the deepest sense, about what is being photographed." Then I started thinking what if it had to all happen in the moment.
07/10/2011 07:46:45 PM · #15
Originally posted by TheDruid:

Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:

I like my emotive pap. I keep it in a jar by my bed. It's like Flubber.

But really, this is quite a confusing thread 21_N.gif TheDruid. You seem to be suggesting a straight from the camera RAW challenge but on the image you have posted as an example you have changed curves/levels basically DQing yourself from your own challenge.


in a jar by your bed? You must have bunk beds >.<

Ummm, the image up above is what started me thinking that all that can be done in basic editting, then I started thinking about a show I see every now and then on the teli about Photographers going head to head where one will only be left ... etc (The challenge was about connecting to the subject). Which then lead to me thinking about Ansel Adams when he said "A great photograph is one that fully expresses what one feels, in the deepest sense, about what is being photographed." Then I started thinking what if it had to all happen in the moment.


The Druid gets up on 9 and knock's Clive_patrick_nolan onto the ropes with a devastating Ansel bomb to the chin..

Why am I commentating in a boxing metaphor?

Message edited by author 2011-07-10 19:46:59.
07/10/2011 09:08:27 PM · #16
The simple answer to why it wouldn't work should be obvious - unless the voter has the same camera/software and the time to download every photo, who would be voting? Web browsers aren't smart enough to open RAW images...
07/11/2011 03:25:54 AM · #17
You have changed the image ?
07/11/2011 04:55:07 AM · #18
Originally posted by Tiny:

You have changed the image ?

Yes, definitely he has, it was a very different one yesterday when I commented.
07/11/2011 11:54:02 AM · #19
Originally posted by NeVeRyn:

The simple answer to why it wouldn't work should be obvious - unless the voter has the same camera/software and the time to download every photo, who would be voting? Web browsers aren't smart enough to open RAW images...


The simpler answer, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, DPC won't upload a RAW file as a challenge entry. It will upload a RAW original supporting validation, but not a RAW challenge entry.
07/11/2011 01:32:17 PM · #20
Originally posted by Tiny:

You have changed the image ?

Yup, had uploaded the wrong one. The original RAW is from canon 20D only 7 meg. The png is almost 40 meg. Both are there now a jpeg and the png. Now to reload the -4 version.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_961703.jpg

Message edited by author 2011-07-11 13:42:58.
07/11/2011 08:51:25 PM · #21
Originally posted by TheDruid:

Originally posted by Tiny:

You have changed the image ?

Yup, had uploaded the wrong one. The original RAW is from canon 20D only 7 meg. The png is almost 40 meg. Both are there now a jpeg and the png. Now to reload the -4 version.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_961703.jpg


If you masked the terrain and then added those effects to the clouds it would be sweet.
07/12/2011 01:56:36 AM · #22
Originally posted by TheDruid:

simply an image, curves levels, nothing more then a dark room can produce.


The notion that the darkroom is more limited than digital imagery is often perpetuated by those who didn't spend much time in the darkroom.
Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_961787.jpg
Beaming light onto silver emulsion was no more limiting, just trickier. No technology is more honest than the next. Adams twisted his negatives for all they were worth, Uelsmann took it another step. There is no technical limit that will get you an honest photograph, merely an honest approach to the subject using whatever technique.
07/13/2011 01:11:34 PM · #23
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:

Originally posted by TheDruid:

Originally posted by Tiny:

You have changed the image ?

Yup, had uploaded the wrong one. The original RAW is from canon 20D only 7 meg. The png is almost 40 meg. Both are there now a jpeg and the png. Now to reload the -4 version.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_961703.jpg


If you masked the terrain and then added those effects to the clouds it would be sweet.


I thought about that, but liked how the light slashed across the buildings.
07/13/2011 01:18:50 PM · #24
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by TheDruid:

simply an image, curves levels, nothing more then a dark room can produce.


The notion that the darkroom is more limited than digital imagery is often perpetuated by those who didn't spend much time in the darkroom.

I would hazard to guess not many have been in a darkroom. The statement is a statement in fact not a supposition leading to an allogation that darkrooms have a limitation.

Originally posted by BrennanOB:


Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_961787.jpg
Beaming light onto silver emulsion was no more limiting, just trickier. No technology is more honest than the next. Adams twisted his negatives for all they were worth, Uelsmann took it another step. There is no technical limit that will get you an honest photograph, merely an honest approach to the subject using whatever technique.

I like what Adams did with his images.
07/13/2011 02:33:59 PM · #25
Originally posted by BrennanOB:


Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_961787.jpg
Beaming light onto silver emulsion was no more limiting, just trickier. No technology is more honest than the next. Adams twisted his negatives for all they were worth, Uelsmann took it another step. There is no technical limit that will get you an honest photograph, merely an honest approach to the subject using whatever technique.

I like what Adams did with his images. [/quote]

Thank you
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