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 06/18/2011 06:15:55 PM · #51
Originally posted by Fiora:
Originally posted by smardaz:
I love how everyone is imputing bad motives, nothing like the court of public opinion


As Ray said, I am not everyone. And even I have no interest in putting him on trial.
I honestly couldn't care less, as it looks like he is going to be dqed either way. I am just amused by the whole thing, and what I posted is my gut thinking to being confused about this thread. One naturally tries to figure out what confuses you. I don't understand his reaction especially after winning a ribbon. I cannot understand how someone would rather DQ a ribbon than briefly show some proof, and to me, my suspicion makes the most sense as a possibly explanation.
Its a public forum and thus public opinions will be voiced. I feel that posting my opinion is my right. Not trying to condemn him, and not trying to start a pitchfork mob.


nor did i say you didn't have a right, i love how when someone posts a contradictory opinion people always often respond with "hey! it's a public forum"....well of course, that goes without saying. Thats why I responded to what you said
 06/18/2011 06:21:25 PM · #52
Originally posted by smardaz:
I love how everyone is imputing bad motives, nothing like the court of public opinion


I dunno what his motives are. Honestly, I don't think there are any. It's stupidity to play a game without reading the rules.

It's like going to bat in a game of baseball, getting three strikes, then getting upset because you've been called "out".
 06/18/2011 07:57:36 PM · #53
The original was submitted two days ago, so no need to dwell on this.
 06/18/2011 08:01:53 PM · #54
Originally posted by scalvert:
The original was submitted two days ago, so no need to dwell on this.


Cool, can you send me the RAW file? ...KIDDING!
 06/18/2011 09:30:12 PM · #55
Originally posted by scalvert:
The original was submitted two days ago, so no need to dwell on this.


I'm sure people wouldn't be dwelling on it if the OP bothered to state that in this thread..two days ago. One of my pet peeves about this forum is that people ask for help or an opinion, members take the time to help and research or give their advice and/or opinion but the OP never comes back to say if the issue was resolved, to thank them for helping etc.

It's called common courtesy.

Dave

Message edited by author 2011-06-18 21:38:36.
 06/18/2011 10:01:59 PM · #56
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
I'm sure people wouldn't be dwelling on it if the OP bothered to state that in this thread..two days ago. One of my pet peeves about this forum is that people ask for help or an opinion, members take the time to help and research or give their advice and/or opinion but the OP never comes back to say if the issue was resolved, to thank them for helping etc.

He did all of that... two days ago, and just before uploading:
Originally posted by weheh:
Thanks scalvert for your response... I'm satisfied that this is probably a tempest in a teapot and that I better upload or get voted off the island ;-). I think I'll be a wussy and upload.
 06/18/2011 10:08:33 PM · #57
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
I'm sure people wouldn't be dwelling on it if the OP bothered to state that in this thread..two days ago. One of my pet peeves about this forum is that people ask for help or an opinion, members take the time to help and research or give their advice and/or opinion but the OP never comes back to say if the issue was resolved, to thank them for helping etc.

He did all of that... two days ago, and just before uploading:
Originally posted by weheh:
Thanks scalvert for your response... I'm satisfied that this is probably a tempest in a teapot and that I better upload or get voted off the island ;-). I think I'll be a wussy and upload.


Ok, very good. I thought I read the whole thread, but must have missed that part. He continued to post after that so I thought his decision was still up in the air. Thanks for clarifying.

Dave
 06/18/2011 11:30:47 PM · #58
I still think DPC should update it's TOU to be less ambiguous on the issue of usage of originals. And the statement "All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission." is not in section 6 of the TOU where I was looking for it. I was certainly not looking for that statement in the page footnotes. DPC pages can get busy with a lot of distracting pretty photos, so that isn't where I was expecting anything other than a DPC copyright, not my personal copyright protection.

Like I said, I wouldn't have posted here if I had gotten a more timely reply to my private post to the overlords of DPC. As for the ranters, read your own rants and then look in a mirror. And try to read the thread carefully before going off half-cocked. It all makes me feel like checking the box that says "Post Contains Adult Content" before I press the Post button on this message. G'nite.
 06/18/2011 11:38:44 PM · #59
Originally posted by weheh:
I still think DPC should update it's TOU to be less ambiguous on the issue of usage of originals. And the statement "All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission." is not in section 6 of the TOU where I was looking for it. I was certainly not looking for that statement in the page footnotes. DPC pages can get busy with a lot of distracting pretty photos, so that isn't where I was expecting anything other than a DPC copyright, not my personal copyright protection.

Like I said, I wouldn't have posted here if I had gotten a more timely reply to my private post to the overlords of DPC. As for the ranters, read your own rants and then look in a mirror. And try to read the thread carefully before going off half-cocked. It all makes me feel like checking the box that says "Post Contains Adult Content" before I press the Post button on this message. G'nite.


I certainly understood the TOU before I started entering challenges.

You've been here a few years and in all that time, never bothered to understand what you were getting into?

If anyone went off half-cocked, it was you when you entered.
 06/18/2011 11:47:53 PM · #60
@spork99: please stick to the subject instead of trying to hijack this thread and take it nowhere at all. Where in the TOU section 6 on IP Rights does it say, "All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission"? Where does it say that anywhere in the TOU? I couldn't find it. Can you?
 06/18/2011 11:58:27 PM · #61
Originally posted by weheh:
@spork99: please stick to the subject instead of trying to hijack this thread and take it nowhere at all. Where in the TOU section 6 on IP Rights does it say, "All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission"? Where does it say that anywhere in the TOU? I couldn't find it. Can you?


Did you read the TOU before you uploaded your first ever entry?
 06/19/2011 12:03:01 AM · #62
@Judi: I don't see the relevance of your question given the context. Are you saying the TOU is perfect as is and can't be improved?

Message edited by author 2011-06-19 00:07:37.
 06/19/2011 12:07:32 AM · #63
Originally posted by weheh:
Originally posted by Judi:
Did you read the TOU before you uploaded your first ever entry?


I don't see the relevance of your question. Are you saying the TOU is perfect as is and can't be improved?


No! I asked you a simple question. Can you give me a straight forward answer?
 06/19/2011 12:10:30 AM · #64
@Judi: is that a no, the TOU isn't perfect. Or No! You don't want to respond to the main issue of the thread?

Message edited by author 2011-06-19 00:13:56.
 06/19/2011 12:20:48 AM · #65
Originally posted by weheh:
@Judi: is that a no, the TOU isn't perfect. Or No! You don't want to respond to the main issue of the thread?


Oh for goodness sake. I am asking a simple question....can you please answer it?
 06/19/2011 12:34:06 AM · #66
@Judi: Sorry I had trouble making myself clear to you. I don't see the relevance of your question in the context of suggesting a modification to the Terms Of Usage of DPC. Do you object to my stated recommendation for modifying section 6?
 06/19/2011 12:37:16 AM · #67
Originally posted by weheh:
@Judi: Sorry I had trouble making myself clear to you. I don't see the relevance of your question in the context of suggesting a modification to the Terms Of Usage of DPC. Do you object to my stated recommendation for modifying section 6?


I have never objected to that, in fact I think it is a good idea to add it. But my question is just as important. How can you tick a box to say that you agree with the Terms and Conditions when you haven't even read them. If you had of read them you would have had these same questions back then and you might have had the sensibility of asking those questions BEFORE you uploaded your entry instead of waiting till you get called up.
06/19/2011 12:44:05 AM · #68
@Judi: If you think my suggestion is such a good idea, then don't waste time with me. Ask yourself the same question. The turnaround-time will be quicker since there's no time-zone diff.

Message edited by author 2011-06-19 00:46:47.
 06/19/2011 12:44:56 AM · #69
Originally posted by weheh:
@Judi: If you think my suggestion is such a good idea, then don't waste time with me. Ask yourself the same question. The turnaround-time should be quicker.


WTH!!!!!
06/19/2011 01:04:13 AM · #70
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by weheh:
@Judi: Sorry I had trouble making myself clear to you. I don't see the relevance of your question in the context of suggesting a modification to the Terms Of Usage of DPC. Do you object to my stated recommendation for modifying section 6?


I have never objected to that, in fact I think it is a good idea to add it.


That's all I was asking. I rest my case.
 06/19/2011 01:13:30 AM · #71
Originally posted by weheh:
And the statement "All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission." is not in section 6 of the TOU where I was looking for it.

In section 7.2 YOU warrant that any content you upload does not infringe on anyone else's copyright; common sense leads to the implication that the site accepts your claim as the copyright-holder of such content.

I think the highlighted portions of Section 6.2 should cover your concerns -- it expressly delimits the use the site can make of anything you upload, which is basically to run and advertise the site -- nothing else.
Originally posted by Terms of Use, Section 6.2:

6.2 You hereby grant DPChallenge.com a nonexclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any rights you have in the Member Information and Media, and otherwise to make use of the Member Information and Media (including publishing, disseminating, broadcasting, manipulating, reproducing, editing, translating, performing, modifying, or displaying any part of the Member Information) and/or Media alone or as part of other work in any form, media, or technology whether now new known or hereafter developed, to enable DPChallenge.com to continue the specific operation or marketing of the site.

It would be impossible to run the site if people could delete their images at will, and we can't run the contests fairly without the ability to examine the originals.

If you catch the site owners or any of the volunteers who help run the site using your image illegally, you can sue for up to $250,000/infringement (assuming you've registered your images with the US Copyright Office prior to the infringement).
 06/19/2011 02:30:54 AM · #72
Originally posted by GeneralE:

In section 7.2 YOU warrant that any content you upload does not infringe on anyone else's copyright; common sense leads to the implication that the site accepts your claim as the copyright-holder of such content.


That is not in dispute. Anyway, that cover's the site's interests, not the photographer's.

Back to section 6.

The terms in section 6 are very broad in scope and one-sided in favor of the site's usage of what we all agree is the photographer's IP. It says nothing about requiring the photographer's permission for anything the site chooses to do with the photographer's IP. Specifically, photographers grant the site any rights we have in the "Member Information and Media", which are not explicitly defined in the TOU definitions section or elsewhere. Obviously, this covers any image we upload to the site, whether displayed or not. Bottom line, the TOU seems to allow for any image to be used in any way that DPC chooses, short of selling the image, for the purposes of "operating or marketing the site". That includes "manipulating, editing, modifying or displaying any part" of an image. Since the methods of operating and marketing the site will likely change over time (the site could be sold, for instance), it seems too broad to allow that proviso without user permission.

To illustrate my point, consider the following hypothetical situation. There are many people on DPC who vocally object to photos of nudity of any kind (I am not one of them). One could interpret the TOU as saying that a user's photo could be placed side by side with a nude, not by chance in a challenge, but by a DPC web designer, and the photographer would not have no say in the matter. If anything, this is just a benign case for illustration purposes. I do not necessarily think this will happen; but it could. For that matter, images could be cropped and altered to make the site more pleasing, but in the process, change the artistic value of a photograph. Again, I don't expect this to happen, but it could under the TOU.

Since "All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission." is stated in the footnotes on every page of DPC, I don't see why anyone would object to having that statement in section 6 of the TOU, and to have "Member Information and Media" to be defined in the definitions section. You probably know the old maxim that contracts help keep honest people honest. These small changes would make it easier for all contributors to feel even more comfortable with the site's long-term intentions.

06/19/2011 03:05:12 AM · #73
Originally posted by weheh:
@spork99: please stick to the subject instead of trying to hijack this thread and take it nowhere at all. Where in the TOU section 6 on IP Rights does it say, "All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission"? Where does it say that anywhere in the TOU? I couldn't find it. Can you?


I am sticking to the subject.

You clearly didn't understand what you were getting into before you uploaded your entry. Now you've gotten your panties all in a wad over something you should have understood before you entered. Now it's everyone's fault but yours.

Don't play a game if you don't understand the rules; it makes you look like an idiot. The time to ask was before you entered, not after.

Message edited by author 2011-06-19 03:05:54.
 06/19/2011 01:53:28 PM · #74
Please, I'll give you $10 for every person who read the ENTIRE TOU before participating, probably about the same amount of people who read the entire EULA for every piece of software they install

Message edited by author 2011-06-19 13:54:10.
 06/19/2011 05:49:52 PM · #75
Originally posted by smardaz:
Please, I'll give you $10 for every person who read the ENTIRE TOU before participating, probably about the same amount of people who read the entire EULA for every piece of software they install


I would agree with this comment wholeheartedly if this were a brand new member, but surely given his tenure on this site he has had the opportunity to familiarize himself with the TOU by now.

The old adage "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" seems fitting in this instance and all of this moaning and groaning is little more than "pissing in the wind"...that warm and fuzzy feeling does come at a cost.

Ray
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