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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Henri Cartier-Bresson
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05/24/2011 01:04:25 AM · #126
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Message edited by author 2011-05-24 02:31:56.
05/24/2011 02:03:49 AM · #127
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

For me it's the rise of an interesting little used rule set, the minimal set, rising into the weekly rotation, and coinciding with a challenge I really like the idea of.

The minimal rule set is something that lets the newer members who might have less post processing skills compete on an even footing with more experienced users. It makes a nice change of pace to balance out the expert editing challenges. If we had had expert editing rise into the weekly challenge rotation I would be having an issue with that as well.

I just wish HCB could get our best.


Well said Brennan. If people want minimal rule sets to balance out the expert rule sets that is fine with me. It's just frustrating to have this rule set for a challenge honoring such a great talent. Maybe Bresson altered his captures less than most photographers, but he did alter them some. I am trying to be a good sport and participate in this one without complaining. I just find it frustrating because everyone will be producing less than their best for this one due to the limitations- and it is in honor of someone great.
I am also finding that the minimal rule set takes too much of my precious free time, same as the expert rule set does. I got some decent shots today that would polish up very nice with just a little bit of post processing. But because I didn't nail things in-camera to the degree I would like to, I have to go out and shoot again or sit this one out if I can't make the time given work responsibilities.
05/24/2011 06:13:25 AM · #128
Originally posted by Brent_S:


.... I got some decent shots today that would polish up very nice with just a little bit of post processing. But because I didn't nail things in-camera to the degree I would like to, I have to go out and shoot again or sit this one out if I can't make the time given work responsibilities.


In my somewhat older jaded opinion the good thing about the minimal rules is that it makes you work on getting the image right in camera. Let's be honest that's what it should all be about.

There is a somewhat explicit saying that goes:

'You can't polish a t*rd but you can roll it in glitter'.

A bit base, I agree, but it does make the point. I think too many people with cameras rely on post processing to pull them out of a hole. For me photography has always been about image capture not image manipulation. Get it right before you press the button and life becomes so much easier.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I freely recognise that there is, and always has been, a need to post process. In my defence I refer to the quote above :)

Not a rant really just an observation.


05/24/2011 06:57:52 AM · #129
[quote=mileskea]

[i]A bit base, I agree, but it does make the point. I think too many people with cameras rely on post processing to pull them out of a hole. For me photography has always been about image capture not image manipulation. Get it right before you press the button and life becomes so much easier.
[/i]

Oh How i totally agree with you, it's more about the image to me as well. And this challenge will prove it.

Message edited by author 2011-05-24 06:58:18.
05/24/2011 07:30:56 AM · #130
I personally love this challenge as, imho it gets down to the meat of the making of a photo.... It's more time-consuming to get the right shot, but when you get the perfect moment on film it makes it much more rewarding. That interview on petapixel was very enlightening and reinforces the idea of finding the right background/composition and just waiting for the perfect subject to enter your frame. You can shoot 100 or just 2, but when you get it right you know immediately.

i personally tried using the raw+jpg option with JPG set on B+W, and my ISO at 12800... i like the fact that I don't have to take into account what i COULD do in post knowing that i can't do much if anything.
05/24/2011 08:12:27 AM · #131
I like the minimal editing rules. Makes me think and plan the shot. To photograph a candid scene with many variables, knowing that the capture WILL BE the challenge submission without additional editing, is a great test of skill. I learned a lot about my camera on this challenge. (I've had my camera for 5 years and I thought I knew everything about it. Ha!) For example, I used the monochrome picture style and adjusted in camera parameters. The results surprised me. Also, the "Evaluative Exposure" setting worked best for me. When you can't fiddle with the exposure later, it is imperative to get the histogram done right at the time of exposure. On test shots, I didn't even look at the LCD image display. I just looked at the histogram and adjusted the exposure compensation dial up or down to generate an ideal histogram with zero pixels at 0 and 255, but a normal distribution of pixels between 1 and 254. To accomplish that, I required a scene with a dynamic range of not more than 5 camera stops between the black shadows and the bright highlights. In Colorado during the day, that's a challenge. So, this injected the additional parameter of waiting for the right "filter cloud" to cover the sun. The final challenging element was the "candid" part, so important to HCB's style. I was stopped by an "official" and questioned as to motive and purpose while trying to be "invisible" to my subjects. For someone who prefers the company of elk, bobcats and birds, this challenge forced me way out of my comfort zone.
05/24/2011 10:18:32 AM · #132
In the end, this challenge is about giving your heart to a single moment and letting the camera perserve that connection that will never come again.

Now, I don't see how processing or technical in camera skill will really help that.

Well, my entry is IN...it is what is is.

Good Luck Everyone.
05/24/2011 10:54:23 AM · #133
Well my frustration with the minimal editing rules expressed above isn't that huge- it's not like I am totally upset about this :)
I understand how people appreciate being forced to get the shot just right in-camera as a way of increasing our capturing skills. Having limited time for shooting, I found the little things beyond my control that ruined shots a bit of a bummer. I got shots where an unfortunately unappealing tourist wandering into the very edge of my frame. Some shots were maybe usable, but because my viewfinder isn't quite 100% coverage (I think Bresson's was) bright distractions showed up in the edge of the image. I think I set my camera well for each scene (and admit this was good practice) but in one of them for example I had previously tested and then lurked in the shadows for the right victim/subject to come along. My eventual perfect subject with a great expression turned out to be a darker skinned Filipino rather than a Caucasian which I had tested the scene with. I don't think anybody could have anticipated the change of scene quick enough to make proper changes there, so without post production allowed that otherwise good capture is toast. So I go back into the hunt again, that is if I can make the time.
Whether I enter this one or not I am glad some of you are enjoying and have time for the minimal editing rules. It's not like I have to enter every challenge, especially lately I certainly don't :)
05/24/2011 11:09:50 AM · #134
I used a little sony cybershot for the last minimal editing challenge and didn't care much for it. So this time, I set my camera to raw + med jpg. I did however forget to make adjustments in camera for things like sharpness, monochrome. What a PIA! I have a candid that I'm putting in, though I don't really like the look that just "desaturate" gave it. I think, just maybe this might be my last minimal challenge. I hate not shooting in raw and I hate what my pictures look like unedited.
05/24/2011 01:13:54 PM · #135
Originally posted by mileskea:


In my somewhat older jaded opinion the good thing about the minimal rules is that it makes you work on getting the image right in camera. Let's be honest that's what it should all be about.

There is a somewhat explicit saying that goes:

'You can't polish a t*rd but you can roll it in glitter'.

A bit base, I agree, but it does make the point. I think too many people with cameras rely on post processing to pull them out of a hole. For me photography has always been about image capture not image manipulation. Get it right before you press the button and life becomes so much easier.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I freely recognise that there is, and always has been, a need to post process. In my defence I refer to the quote above :)

Not a rant really just an observation.


Oh contraire... You really can polish a turd!!
05/24/2011 02:33:33 PM · #136
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Minimal editing? blech. Desaturate is such a unsatisfactory method for making a B&W.

Get a filter.
05/24/2011 03:33:27 PM · #137
Hmmmmm...this thread makes me wonder how many professional photographers are actually genuine storytellers? To be in the right place at the right time...does this happen by accident or by experience?
05/24/2011 03:38:34 PM · #138
According to HCB himself when talking about photography.... "nothing worth knowing can be taught."

However he then goes on to say this "To me, photography is a simultaneous recognition in a fraction of a second of a significance of an event as well as of a precise organization of form which gives that event its proper expression."

So my answer to you is this (according to him at least) it is a recognition skill more than luck, or something similar to that.

Hope that helped ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' hihosilver...
05/24/2011 03:40:43 PM · #139
Originally posted by hihosilver:

To be in the right place at the right time...does this happen by accident or by experience?


Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
Will Rogers


There are those who have the gift, but in my experience, its experience. Guessing correctly what is going to happen in time to be in the right position and ready to capture the moment, comes from missing similar opportunities many many times before. Then there is knowing how to get the shot in a way that allows you to not interrupt the next shot, which is in my experience close to impossible.
05/24/2011 03:44:27 PM · #140
Originally posted by hihosilver:

To be in the right place at the right time...does this happen by accident or by experience?


Bit of both i imagine. Learning the ability to 'see' and be able to anticipate i think is a key skill. That's the aspect i enjoy most about photography and it's certainly something i'm trying to develop more. I see it as kind of meditative, an extension of an 'awake awareness' to the point where ones surroundings become part of an intimate conversation. The universe makes poetry all the time and it's hugely gratifying and enjoyable when you catch it during a particularly beautiful stanza.

I like this quote...
The observed observes. The forest becomes a congeries of eyes." Robert Pogue Harrison

Message edited by author 2011-05-24 15:45:25.
05/24/2011 03:53:20 PM · #141
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

So my answer to you is this (according to him at least) it is a recognition skill more than luck, or something similar to that.

"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
--Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it."
--Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)

"Luck is the residue of design."
--Branch Rickey (1881 - 1965)

"I say luck is when an opportunity comes along, and you're prepared for it."
--Denzel Washington (1954 - )

"There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe."
--Robert Heinlein (1907 - 1988)
05/24/2011 03:57:40 PM · #142
Oh my! Well, Gentlemen, I am filled with a euphoria of Wisdom now...LOL

Thank you for putting some poetic intelligence back into this conversation...

::BEAMS::
05/24/2011 04:08:45 PM · #143
Paul, you left out one of my favorites.

"The harder I work the luckier I get."
Samuel Goldwyn

05/24/2011 04:17:00 PM · #144
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

According to HCB himself when talking about photography.... "nothing worth knowing can be taught."


Don't really ever listen to what an artist has to say. ;) The good ones certainly know the art of smoke and mirrors.
05/24/2011 04:36:57 PM · #145
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

So my answer to you is this (according to him at least) it is a recognition skill more than luck, or something similar to that.

"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
--Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it."
--Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)

"Luck is the residue of design."
--Branch Rickey (1881 - 1965)

"I say luck is when an opportunity comes along, and you're prepared for it."
--Denzel Washington (1954 - )

"There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe."
--Robert Heinlein (1907 - 1988)


"When it comes to original thought, famous people are pretty damn lazy."
- yanko (1972 - )
05/24/2011 04:51:57 PM · #146
Well, as Mae West once said:

"An ounce of performance is worth pounds of promises."

So, I look forward to seeing the images and stories you all come up with for this demanding challenge.

;-)
05/24/2011 05:38:13 PM · #147
This challenge will be interesting to see how the scoring works. The voters will be challenged to make an assessment on the images as well. So, I hope the voters will make an effort to go through the HCB photos as well to study this style of photography.
05/24/2011 07:20:52 PM · #148
Originally posted by hihosilver:

The voters will be challenged to make an assessment on the images as well. So, I hope the voters will make an effort to go through the HCB photos as well to study this style of photography.


I'd hope so. I hope that the voters take that decisive moment element as a key element really. As a voter i am far less bothered by other things which i think are maybe less important such as the need for it to be b/w. I quite like the minimal rules but its not a big deal. For me one of the DPC photographers that first comes to mind with this challenge is ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' muur88 and such fantastic photographs such as ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/717/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_562751.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/717/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_562751.jpg', '/') + 1) . '. I'd hate for an image as wonderful as that to be voted down because people didn't think it met the challenge because it isn't black and white. For me it fits the challenge perfectly.
05/24/2011 07:22:56 PM · #149
-1 for the manboobs.
05/24/2011 07:34:24 PM · #150
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

-1 for the manboobs.


Perfectly composed and mirrored manboobs though. I always find manboobs add a much needed element of oomph to an image anyway. Bressons jumping boy picture could only have been enhanced by them i say.



Message edited by author 2011-05-24 19:35:47.
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