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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Henri Cartier-Bresson
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05/22/2011 04:34:50 PM · #101
Originally posted by bvy:

Originally posted by vawendy:

He cropped AND EDITED that photo!! DQ him! He didn't follow the rules!!

As a rule he didn't crop his photos, and that's the spirit of this challenge. You obvoiusly found an exception. No one claimed there weren't any.

You seem to rely very heavily on cropping, Wendy. I think this challenge might be good for you.


Actually, for the most part I don't. I tend to compose completely in camera. I've had some huge problems because of it. The few times I've done shoots for people, I've forgotten to leave extra space for cropping to 8x10, and had to clone in extra so I can crop it correctly. My husband it constantly yelling at me for not leaving extra space.

However, since I've started into wildlife photography, I basically have to crop, simply because it's hard to get close. If I had a 500mm or 600mm, perhaps I could compose in camera. This was taken from across the inlet:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1384/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_949727.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1384/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_949727.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' and cropped in significantly, simply because he was so far away.

Basically any of my egret shots couldn't be done in minimal editing, simply because they'd be too small and the surrounding environment wasn't that interesting.

05/22/2011 05:56:15 PM · #102
For those in the Minneapolis area, there is an exhibit at the Walker Art Center titled "Exposed: Voyeurism, Surveillance, and the Camera Since 1870" featuring works from many sources, public and private, including Guy Bourdin, Philip Lorca DiCorcia, Walker Evans, Robert Frank, Nan Goldin, Lee Miller, Helmut Newton, Man Ray and Henri Cartier-Bresson. The exhibit runs from May 21 to September 18, 2011. The exhibit presents over 200 photographs, installations, and video pieces and was first displayed at Tate Modern then the SFMOMA.

Should be interesting!

05/22/2011 06:32:44 PM · #103
Oh...how appropriate...my entry is #13...

::promptly faints::
05/22/2011 10:04:08 PM · #104
Minimal editing question...

May I flip my image? It says here under the "You may" section that "rotate your entry by 90, 180 or 270 degrees."

It does not say anything about flipping the image. Any takes on this?
05/22/2011 10:10:27 PM · #105
You should contact the Supreme Council. I think the answer is no.
05/22/2011 10:17:41 PM · #106
Hmm.. Sounds good. I shall e-mail them. :) Thanks.
05/23/2011 12:53:20 AM · #107
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

Minimal editing question...

May I flip my image? It says here under the "You may" section that "rotate your entry by 90, 180 or 270 degrees."

It does not say anything about flipping the image. Any takes on this?


Definite no-no, dude. The rules list precisely what you ARE allowed to do, in minimal; anything NOT on that list is not allowed.

R.
05/23/2011 01:38:48 AM · #108
That is what I figured. It won't make that much of a difference but I just like having my subject on the other side.

Thanks! :)
05/23/2011 05:02:41 AM · #109
Well I'm in - and it's my 100th entry.

I'm not unhappy with the shot but I'm hoping to get something better before roll-over. It's a candid shot taken at what I feel is a decisive moment with consideration for the background, composition and exposure. However, I'm sure to get the comments "snap shot" :-)
05/23/2011 10:42:48 AM · #110
There's a documentary about him that might be useful for research, perhaps. I'm gonna watch it later, so I don't know if it's any good or anything.
//www.imdb.com/title/tt0369523/

05/23/2011 12:05:36 PM · #111
Shooting this challenge is hugely refreshing purely because I spent way more time thinking about how to use the camera and connecting to the scene than the post processing afterwards. My 3 seconds of post processing makes me feel so vulnerable...I hope ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Whiterook enters this challenge...when I win the brown ribbon, I want to make sure I beat a professional!
05/23/2011 12:14:38 PM · #112
Welp... I am in. We will see how this one goes. High or low votes, I like this one so I will be happy with it no matter what. :)
05/23/2011 02:32:57 PM · #113
Originally posted by Bear_Music:



From this wonderful website, "American Suburb X": explore!

R.


PuppyBear...loved this article! I'm so happy you posted this! ;-)
05/23/2011 03:33:19 PM · #114
Originally posted by LevT:

Originally posted by Carlo21:

I thought it was interesting that HCB said he never cropped a photo.

I think it is a myth. Or maybe he didn't, but his editors or printers did it for him. Most of his photos are indeed 3:2, but there are exceptions. Anyway with all my admiration for HCB, I don't see much sense in this particular statement. What's wrong with slight cropping a frame if it Improves composition? Not all compositions require fixed aspect ratio arbitrarily imposed by the film manufacturer. And also given unpredictability of street photography, i find it is a good practice to give yourself a "safety cushion" around your composition, so unexpected can still be captured. But then in the final image you want to remove this cushion.


I think I am pretty much with you on this Lev. I made it out for one short session to shoot for this challenge and the best shots I got all had some distracting bits at the margins of the frame. In looking through Bresson's body of work, it does seem many of the images do have distracting elements at the edges of the frame. So I assume he seldom cropped- with some exceptions. His work was good enough to be praised despite the occasional distracting peripheral elements obviously.

I am guessing (and hoping that I am wrong) that many DPC voters will not even research Bresson's style and will subsequently brutalize any images that have unnecessary distracting elements. I understand the reason for implementing the no crop rule given the inspiration, but hope if a similar challenge comes up again, at least minimal cropping would be allowed (maybe just one edge?). Otherwise, I think we are not going to see the best captures everyone got but rather the best they got without any peripheral distractions- unless they just decide to not give a damn about the harsh voters.
05/23/2011 07:35:16 PM · #115
aside from the cropping issue, impossibility to adjust even the most basic things like contrast and brightness in this challenge does not make much sense to me either. Are we trying to be holier than the Holy Father, I mean HCB himself? Because he (or his printers) certainly fine-tuned the exposure and contrast at print time.
05/23/2011 08:13:05 PM · #116
Originally posted by LevT:

aside from the cropping issue, impossibility to adjust even the most basic things like contrast and brightness in this challenge does not make much sense to me either. Are we trying to be holier than the Holy Father, I mean HCB himself? Because he (or his printers) certainly fine-tuned the exposure and contrast at print time.


Yes, the purpose of minimal editing is to become the god of your camera... so to speak. Try to get everything right using only your camera settings including the composition. Perhaps it just might aid in your quest to become a master of photography. (Just to clarify... You and your means everyone participating in the challenge, not just the person I quoted.)
05/23/2011 08:39:16 PM · #117
' . substr('//www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/2010/0503-weekly/0503-lcartier-01-henri-cartier-bresson-hyeres/7770799-1-eng-US/0503-LCARTIER-01-henri-cartier-bresson-hyeres_full_380.jpg', strrpos('//www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/2010/0503-weekly/0503-lcartier-01-henri-cartier-bresson-hyeres/7770799-1-eng-US/0503-LCARTIER-01-henri-cartier-bresson-hyeres_full_380.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

This photo is currently hanging in my local community college. I live in a small town fairly close to Aspen Colorado and some Aspen art collectors have loaned a huge collection of original prints from some very famous photographers to hang in our little college for a while. It is very cool and the shot I pasted above is one of my favorites from the collection. Some of the other artists that are represented are Sally Mann, Alfred Stieglitz, W. Eugene Smith, and Marion Post Wolcott among others.

Message edited by author 2011-05-23 20:39:43.
05/23/2011 08:59:32 PM · #118
Originally posted by EL-ROI:

Originally posted by LevT:

aside from the cropping issue, impossibility to adjust even the most basic things like contrast and brightness in this challenge does not make much sense to me either. Are we trying to be holier than the Holy Father, I mean HCB himself? Because he (or his printers) certainly fine-tuned the exposure and contrast at print time.


Yes, the purpose of minimal editing is to become the god of your camera... so to speak. Try to get everything right using only your camera settings including the composition. Perhaps it just might aid in your quest to become a master of photography. (Just to clarify... You and your means everyone participating in the challenge, not just the person I quoted.)

...except while shooting for this challenge I had to use some camera options which I never ever would use under normal circumstances (like in-camera sharpening, contrast amplification, orange filter, to name a few). So it is not clear how it would help me to become a better photographer :).
05/23/2011 10:15:06 PM · #119
Originally posted by LevT:

...except while shooting for this challenge I had to use some camera options which I never ever would use under normal circumstances (like in-camera sharpening, contrast amplification, orange filter, to name a few). So it is not clear how it would help me to become a better photographer :).


Don't you mean become a better retoucher? You're focused on things that have nothing to do with capturing a moment. So you have crummy brush to work with. That's fine because this isn't a painting challenge.

Wait, did I just say that?
05/23/2011 10:48:41 PM · #120
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by LevT:

...except while shooting for this challenge I had to use some camera options which I never ever would use under normal circumstances (like in-camera sharpening, contrast amplification, orange filter, to name a few). So it is not clear how it would help me to become a better photographer :).


Don't you mean become a better retoucher? You're focused on things that have nothing to do with capturing a moment. So you have crummy brush to work with. That's fine because this isn't a painting challenge.

Wait, did I just say that?


no, I am not focusing on retouching at all. I am all about capturing a moment. But I just don't see what we gain by having to enter and look at photos that could be vastly improved by one or two simple global adjustments (say, curves). Which are roughly equivalent to a most basic darkroom procedure. I guess I don't see what would be wrong with basic for this challenge...
05/23/2011 11:35:38 PM · #121
just saw this show up on my twitter feed.
dont click this!
05/24/2011 12:23:37 AM · #122
Originally posted by LevT:

...except while shooting for this challenge I had to use some camera options which I never ever would use under normal circumstances (like in-camera sharpening, contrast amplification, orange filter, to name a few). So it is not clear how it would help me to become a better photographer :).


We are limited to a new and inferior set of tools that few of us use, mostly because they are inferior to our usual set. Limited tools can spark creativity, but it can also limit it. Warhol did nice work with Polariod Instamatic. Cartier-Bresson did great work full frame with his Leica.

How do you suppose he would have reacted if you had told him he would be more "pure" in capturing the moment if he dumped his Leica for an Instamatic? No cropping, no adjustments possible, much more pure. I'm sure Henri would have jumped on it.
05/24/2011 12:35:02 AM · #123
I don't understand why everyone's stressing about this, I really don't. And I don't even understand the relevance of "what HCB would have done" or any of that.

Rightly or wrongly, HCB is perceived as a photographer who was all about the instant of capture. It may be a legend, but it's a legend that provided a stepping stone into an interesting, and different, challenge: capture the decisive moment, and get it right in-camera.

Why all the fuss? So WHAT if we can't use all our tools? Gawd, I could improve my entry dramatically with a little post, but I'm not minding this at all, I swear I'm not. It was fun to think this way, it was fun to take the challenge, and I'll be interested to see what others do in response to the same challenge I faced.

If I want to create "perfect" Cartier-Bressons (whatever that may be), well, I have the rest of my life to do that, eh? I don't need the permission of a DPC challenge to do it...

R.
05/24/2011 12:56:43 AM · #124
I'm in. Super hard to decide which one to enter because I have no idea how the voters will respond. Not expecting much. May try to get something else before it ends.
05/24/2011 12:59:37 AM · #125
For me it's the rise of an interesting little used rule set, the minimal set, rising into the weekly rotation, and coinciding with a challenge I really like the idea of.

The minimal rule set is something that lets the newer members who might have less post processing skills compete on an even footing with more experienced users. It makes a nice change of pace to balance out the expert editing challenges. If we had had expert editing rise into the weekly challenge rotation I would be having an issue with that as well.

I just wish HCB could get our best.

Message edited by author 2011-05-24 01:00:43.
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