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04/18/2011 04:29:33 AM · #1 |
I appreciate that there are many levels of skills, talent and interest here in DPC and that's what makes it so enjoyable for me as you can always learn and receive useful feedback. However, I have a question on how people approach the Challenges.
In the main, when I see a challenge published my first thought is either 'Yep, like the idea of that' or 'No, that's not for me'. Then, the usual process is to store the Challenge in my mind and when I go out I'll be thiking and looking as to how to meet a Challenge. Sometimes, something pops intot he mind straight away and I'll go and find it again.
So, how many people work in a similar manner to this and how many will engage friends/models/studios etc and set up their image? |
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04/18/2011 05:04:00 AM · #2 |
Depends, for me. I use a lot of the challenges to push myself, to try new things. Venture out of my zone, so while I agree with what you say about liking or not liking, sometimes I like something because I don't like it... because it's not me. I engage whatever I need, but usually don't torture my friends with my demands. Sometimes I have, but not typically.
Another thread you might be interested in about this is this one about idea generation. |
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04/18/2011 05:28:25 AM · #3 |
When I first started I entered all challenges and thought it was a great idea to be pushed out of my comfort zone. Now I have turned around and decided to either skip challenges that I don't like or use them to put some experimental learning stuff. Obviously, in the latter case, my expectation of the score is very low. With the challenges I would like to enter I think about the ideas a lot but since I am not into studio or friends/models shooting they have an element of chance so quite often the right opportunity does not arise. I am treating DPC now like a lottery - getting an unstaged great shot is very rare but I will keep on trying :)
PS Looking at the front page now with 12 ribbon winners it is pretty clear that "staged" approach wins by a large margin.
PS2 Thinking about it more this may be why I like lensbaby. It is uncontrollable, unstageable. There is always an element of surprise and wonderment. I love it.
Message edited by author 2011-04-18 07:47:59. |
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04/18/2011 06:20:43 AM · #4 |
I am a strong believer of what I would call "prepared" shots, which means at least "staged" to some extent. Just wandering around, in the hope of something incredible to happen, not mentioning the odds of wrong settings, composition, lighting... is just too unreliable, in my humble opinion.
What I tend to do is research as much as I can (which also depends on my available personal time) interesting spots (some interesting building, a nice tree, a known animals meeting spot, etc.), first on a map, then through other photos that may exist of the location. This gives me a good idea of what to expect on the field, of the light's direction, etc. Then go for it, and do the best shot I can, spending as much time as needed until I think I won't do any better than that. Often, I am still disappointed with the result, so it just lands in my "useless & crappy" folder. However, I keep the experience in mind, and come back to the very same spot later in the year: sometimes, weather, inspiration and various other conditions can "make" the shot. Also, it happens that I find another nice spot while traveling, which I also keep in mind and work on, as described previously.
As a simple example, it was the 3rd time I traveled to the beach used in my "Unstoppable" photo: the first two photos never made it to DPC. I still like the ideas and concepts involved, and will probably re-use them later, with a better setup.
To conclude, I would stay that I rarely leave the house without a pretty clear idea of what I am going for, and still often come back without anything satisfying me. I'm sure this is not the only way to work, but this is what I did so far. Just my 2 cts! |
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04/18/2011 06:33:01 AM · #5 |
My very first entry was staged and it did pretty well. I was thrilled because I had never really tried anything like that before.
I then spent a year either trying to set up shots or riding around looking specifically for shots that met the challenge. I never came close to mastering scalvert's formula. Then about six years ago I started free-lancing full-time and even though I was able to make the occasional shooting trip, more and more of my entries were images grabbed while working and then shoe-horned into challenges.
That's where I am today: occasional grabs and shoe-horns. Sometimes I get lucky and my work nicely intersects with a challenge theme...
...but usually not. It would be nice to have the time and resources to set up shots or to travel around seeking that dpc-friendly shot, but that's not in the cards for me. Hats off to those who can. All the same, I enjoy both seeing what others can do and getting inspired by their works, as well as making a living by serving my clients with my camera. |
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04/18/2011 10:28:06 AM · #6 |
I keep one of these in my gear bag.
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04/18/2011 11:10:52 AM · #7 |
Because of the wildlife, mine are more setups than staged. I can't get the wildlife to act predictably, but I can get the setting prepared.
The recent squirrel shot, I put a chip on the railing. I took about 20 minutes for the squirrel to come down and take the chip. When he finally did, he picked up the chip and turned his back to me to eat it! It was a windy day, so 1/2 of the time the chip kept blowing off the railing. It took about 2 hours to get 3 good/decent shots.
For the "self portrait without people" shot, I was actually trying to get a bird. I put mealworms in the lens hood of my old camera. I got a squirrel instead. He wasn't interested in the mealworms, he was just trying to get past the camera to raid the bird feeder. So the shot was completely unexpected.
I'm still not comfortable with the staged shots. My idea of photography is to find something that's there. (If I could do shots like gyaban's, that would be a different story!) Anyway, I'm better at the "found" shots, but they're hard to find. So even though I don't enjoy staging shots, I do it anyway. My burst of color is completely and totally staged. But even though it's not the type of thing I really enjoy shooting, I learn a lot from the experience. That's why I'll continue to do the staged non-wildlife shots, even though they don't particularly interest me. Because when it comes to the "found" shots, I have a better instinct on angle, lighting, etc, because of all the staged practice. |
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04/18/2011 11:44:55 AM · #8 |
| I was actually thinking about this topic a couple of days ago, but in relation to my own work rather than challenges. I often say I don't like work that feels artificial, yet much of my portrait work is clearly staged. I was trying to think of how to articulate that difference, but I didn't have much success. If I go back to some of my more successful work, a few photos of women in or around a stream here in Minnesota. I clearly didn't just happen onto an attractive woman enjoying a dip in her slip or a sundress. In this case we found the stream we wanted to use, hiked to it and then waded in. There was no set on the edge of a pool or puddle in a studio. The situation was real other than the fact that we arranged to have the subject and the photographer at the right place and the right time. I suppose it would be amazing to capture images like that in truly documentary fashion, but I'm not there yet. |
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04/18/2011 12:20:31 PM · #9 |
| I am a found shooter and if you compare my port to Christophe's or Wendy's, you'll see that staged and set up are far better options for DPC! There are, of course, very masterful found shooters here, too. |
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04/18/2011 12:24:30 PM · #10 |
| Outside of DPC, mine are all found shots, nothing staged, but that is why I joined DPC to help me with the staged ones, it makes you use a different part of your mind when you need to do something specific in a short period of time. I am so not grasping lighting and I am guessing I will need to make some investments in equipment soon.. which you know.. is good and bad :) |
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04/18/2011 12:35:40 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
I am a found shooter and if you compare my port to Christophe's or Wendy's, you'll see that staged and set up are far better options for DPC! There are, of course, very masterful found shooters here, too. |
Ha ha!! I was reading this on my Droid, so I didn't immediately see who posted it. My immediate thought was: "I think the best found shooter on the site is Melethia. You should check out her stuff!"
Well, you probably don't need to look at your own stuff, but I stand by my original statement. :D |
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04/18/2011 01:14:13 PM · #12 |
I seem to prefer found shots, though I do have a few staged entries. Lighting is not an area of expertise for me and I don't normally have models available or studio space. Sometimes I will already have an idea for a shot filed away waiting for the right challenge to come up, so I head to the location and hope that the light and subject come together right. Often it does, or I find something else that works even better.
I had an interesting discussion with someone I met at an open studio session in Albuquerque last year. I mentioned that I can recognize the good light and good shot when I see it, but I have difficulty creating a shot. He said he was exactly the opposite. He knows how to create the light for what he needs, but is not nearly as good when shooting real world scenes.
I also think that the real world scenes will likely remain my preference, even when I improve my lighting skills. The reason is that I have realized that the thing I love about photography can be boiled down to one word: exploring. It's also what I enjoy most about riding my bicycle.
Message edited by author 2011-04-18 13:23:03.
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04/18/2011 01:29:12 PM · #13 |
For me staged shooting is what you do if you can't find it in the real world. For neck to knees a few challenges ago I thought I would shoot at a punk club on a Saturday night. Pretty much a fail. Just nothing good. Bad angles, bad light, never captured the energy. I might have with big off camera strobes, but 1. I don't own any and 2. I just don't have the guts to take over an event for the sake of my photography.
So plan B is back in the garage working on what kind of light I can get out of a halogen floor lamp and a few clamp lamps. Its not as exciting a challenge as lying down in a mosh pit, but it is easier on the equipment. |
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04/18/2011 01:42:00 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
The reason is that I have realized that the thing I love about photography can be boiled down to one word: exploring. |
I honestly believe you, or any photographer, can take that love of exploring and use it to influence what you might refer to as staged shots. Say you are shooting a photo of a subject in a studio or a prearranged meeting place. You can shoot by the numbers and get a pretty photo that is easily accepted and that is safe from technical criticism, or you can dig into you subject's character, explore who they are as a person, and then capture what you have found in a more creative photo. I will be the first to agree that there is a lot of staged photography that is superficial.. pretty but empty. But a great image, even if it is "staged", is going to require the discovery and capture of something beyond the usual. This exploration could involve hours of walking and waiting for the right situation or it could involve hours of talking, listening, learning, shooting and experimenting to order to find and reveal what is just beneath the surface of a human being. In either case it can be an adventure.
Message edited by author 2011-04-18 13:43:51. |
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04/18/2011 02:17:10 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Its not as exciting a challenge as lying down in a mosh pit |
That would be very exciting! |
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04/18/2011 02:56:33 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
There are, of course, very masterful found shooters here, too. |
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04/18/2011 03:00:22 PM · #17 |
| well it depends for me too. i usually am taking a picture of myself, a friend, or its still life... very rarely is it a candid shot. |
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04/18/2011 03:27:51 PM · #18 |
Interestingly enough I've had a few shots that were staged and THEN I found out there was a challenge that my picture worked for.
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04/18/2011 05:32:57 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
I also think that the real world scenes will likely remain my preference, even when I improve my lighting skills. The reason is that I have realized that the thing I love about photography can be boiled down to one word: exploring. It's also what I enjoy most about riding my bicycle. |
Same here, verbatim, just replace biking with plain walking. I started by voraciously looking at picture to know the world and faraway places, people and reading travel essays. Then, taking my photos trying to freeze the moment, the gesture, the wind, the dappled light, the silence or the chaos around to stare at it. Photography as tool. My drawings, paintings and all my art work is one thing, the photography is capturing the fleeting, the ineffable and the elusive of the visible world.
When I stage a shot is just a quick little story, an illustration.
So far ... we keep evolving and exploring |
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04/18/2011 05:43:04 PM · #20 |
Most of my shots are found rather than staged. However, if I stage a shot, I get kind of upset if it doesn't do well, its like "Come on, I wasted all of my creative energy to not even do well!" :-P
Message edited by author 2011-04-18 17:43:49. |
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04/18/2011 05:45:30 PM · #21 |
Whichever produces the best results.
Sometimes I have an idea for a challenge, but just can't get the set up to work. I might go "exploring" and find what I feel is a decent entry.
Other times, I have an idea that's "out there" (so in a sense staged, like those Icelandic landscape shots), but won't come home with anything useful. Then I'll try something in my studio/kitchen/living room).
I actually enjoy both staged and found equally for opposite reasons. I like the control of studio, and love the serendipity and surprise of found. |
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04/19/2011 03:51:32 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
....The reason is that I have realized that the thing I love about photography can be boiled down to one word: exploring. .... |
Exactly how I feel - it is a creative exploration and expression. Quite a few 'visions' in my head are of the staged nature. The reason: there are some elements that need to be controlled in order to achieve the picture in my head - Rainy Daisy Days springs to mind as a prime example. Sometimes in a staged shot a bit of spontaneity happens and it is far better than all the posed/staged shots that I did in that session. The rarity is the found shot for me - it does not happen often but when it does it is/has always been a treat. I wish I could 'find' more of them but either I have not fully trained my eye to spot them or in some cases I see the opportunity but cannot do the shot ( i.e. the one time 2 years ago spotting a full rainbow over the glades with absolutely beautiful lighting and clouds. I was driving and there was no safe place to pull off to the side of the road)
Message edited by author 2011-04-19 04:07:25. |
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04/19/2011 05:11:45 AM · #23 |
I like to "find" all of my shots....on Flickr. The hardest part is remembering to filter my search by the challenge dates so I don't get a silly DQ. Hard work, but worth the mediocre and very average scores I get without even having to press a shutter. :P
Although sometimes if I'm feeling really creative I like to grab photos from this source.
Dave |
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04/19/2011 06:01:37 AM · #24 |
| I can see the trap was set.. waiting.. |
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04/19/2011 09:46:29 AM · #25 |
Dave, that only works when Don does it...
It's been my un-scientific experience that staged images tend to do better than found, in most challenges.
That being said, I rarely stage an image because I am horrible at that part of photography. One would think that I would practice staging images so that I do get better at it. Unfortuantely, the procrastination side of me has the upper hand in the process. |
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