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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Why a '5' not a '6'?
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04/03/2011 05:34:59 AM · #1
I've been fairly vocal in the current FS scores thread about offering comments with the 1-3 votes we give. I won't rehash the argument here but I think the value of such comments is over-estimated.

However, it did get me thinking.....

Many people, when commenting on their scores, seem to feel disappointed with votes of '5' but would be fairly satisfied with a vote of '6' (I imagine this is related to being above or below the 5.5 mid-point of the scale). I'd therefore like to suggest that a comment paired with a vote of '5' may be very useful to some people. I know i'd find such comments interesting and useful.

Here's what I'm suggesting, if people are up for it, for those challenges that are currently in voting you (we) pick a few of the 5's you give/have given and offer a comment as to why, for you, it wasn't a '6'. You might might find it useful or convenient to preface you comment with the following bit of text:

'I am participating in the "Why a '5' not a '6'?" commenting activity (see recent forum thread). Viewers are asked to leave a comment with some of their votes of '5' letting the photographer know why, for them, it fell short of a vote of '6'. If you have found this comment useful, you may wish to offer some of your own to those images where you vote 5.'

What do others think? Useful? Madness?

Of course I can see that some people might want to say "I gave this a 5 because I don't like your image as much as those I've give a 6 to." but hopefully we can manage something a bit richer(?)

I'm obviously up for doing some of this myself but would probably rather do it as a community activity rather than embark on a lone self-indulgent commenting crusade! So let's see what sort of reception the idea gets (pretty sure it's not a new one) and go from there.

Paul

Message edited by author 2011-04-03 05:35:44.
04/03/2011 05:47:53 AM · #2
Useful Madness. It'd just be easier to bump the score to a 6. :P
04/03/2011 05:53:28 AM · #3
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Useful Madness. It'd just be easier to bump the score to a 6. :P


LOL glad you took the first reply.

Personally for the votee a 5 means you are out of the game, it was a good shot and its probably something you can be proud of. 6 Means it had a good run and if it didnt make it oh well. 7 you win, if not you get to join 7. No Ribbon club. A 4 means you failed or people hated it.

When I am voting a 4 a 5 and a 6 are WORLDS apart. I struggle to hand out 4's It had to have either failed the challenge or failed to be a decent attempt at a shot. A 5 for me has to meet both the challenge and some sense of photography. A 6 through a 10 is how I rate everything else. There is barely a difference between a 6 a 7 and an 8. If I give a 9 and a 10 it was either that good of a shot or it was processed that well above a 6.
04/03/2011 05:58:23 AM · #4
This is an excellent idea, it seems that 5 and 6 are further apart than any other score and can be the line between disappointment and a good photo.
04/03/2011 06:07:07 AM · #5
I'm in, i don't usually give critical comments so this will be new to me, i will also feel better about doing this if it is a community thing. Good idea Paul.
04/03/2011 06:34:08 AM · #6
I understand where you are coming from. A '5' is the easy sore to give, requiring no further thinking. I would however have to agree with Art; such a rule would simply lead to the 6 being the new five.
04/03/2011 06:41:46 AM · #7
Originally posted by Camabs:

I understand where you are coming from. A '5' is the easy sore to give, requiring no further thinking. I would however have to agree with Art; such a rule would simply lead to the 6 being the new five.


I wasn't suggesting that it should be in any way a 'rule' or even normal practice; but for just a few of the fives we give, we offer such a comment by way of trying that out. If a number of people did it for say just three shots they gave 5s to in a challenge it would add to the total comments given against fives significantly.

Certainly I agree, there'd be no sense in just trying to move goal-posts
04/03/2011 06:59:24 AM · #8
Nice idea but I think that voting 5s and 6s should be discouraged. This is the problem with the current voting system - a 10 point scale has been effectively reduced to 4 point scale (4 to 7). I have changed my own scale significantly recently - I don't vote 5s and 6s at all.

What about the resurrection of the critique club? A good way to get a bit more comprehensive constructive feedback. I also would love to see some discussion to explain why certain photos made it to Top 10 and some equally good (if not better) did not. I know this could be difficult to do but it could help some members totally disillusioned with the current voting patterns.
04/03/2011 07:03:23 AM · #9
When I score an image with a 5, it means to me that it's not ghastly, but also not great. Yes, I'm sure people could benefit from thoughtful critiques on mediocre images. However, I've become tired of leaving any kind of constructive criticism because of protests, emails, not marking as helpful, etc. There's a constant low hum of complaint on DPC that not enough comments are made, and yet comments offering a different view are often not welcome.

Therefore, I've pretty much stopped leaving constructive criticism. If I give you a 1-6, you're on your own with that.
04/03/2011 07:08:58 AM · #10
Originally posted by marnet:

What about the resurrection of the critique club?

The Critique Club hasn't really gone away, it's just time consuming (currently there are 396 members belonging to the critique club - although how many of those are really active members on DPC still is debatable). I haven't done one in over a month, too busy with real life. Why not join the critique club and start making the critiques?
04/03/2011 07:14:57 AM · #11
Originally posted by salmiakki:

Originally posted by marnet:

What about the resurrection of the critique club?

The Critique Club hasn't really gone away, it's just time consuming (currently there are 396 members belonging to the critique club - although how many of those are really active members on DPC still is debatable). I haven't done one in over a month, too busy with real life. Why not join the critique club and start making the critiques?


I'll join the critique club - I'm always full of opinions. :oD What do I have to do?
04/03/2011 07:20:59 AM · #12
Originally posted by keenon:


I'll join the critique club - I'm always full of opinions. :oD What do I have to do?


Go to Help, Contact Us, and submit a request to join the Critique Club, it's the last option in the list. And check out the sticky notes in this forum section The Crtique Club as it helps to know what is expected.
04/03/2011 07:44:13 AM · #13
Originally posted by marnet:

Nice idea but I think that voting 5s and 6s should be discouraged. This is the problem with the current voting system - a 10 point scale has been effectively reduced to 4 point scale (4 to 7). I have changed my own scale significantly recently - I don't vote 5s and 6s at all.


If indeed what you are advocating here is true, then people would not be bitching about getting scores of 1, 2 and 4. Similarly, all the high scoring images would not garner anything over a 7 and we we all be happily comparing our similar scores. Truth be told a lot of images are just that, average.

Originally posted by marnet:

I also would love to see some discussion to explain why certain photos made it to Top 10 and some equally good (if not better) did not.


This suggestion would have merit if indeed all voters were called upon to vote on all of the images but would be of little use under the present scenario. Since images are viewed at random, and since it is likely that most people vote on only a portion of the images shown, we will truly never know why some images score well when other similar quality images don't.

Take that factor into consideration, and the subjective nature of scoring and you may find your answer.

Ray
04/03/2011 07:53:59 AM · #14
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Since images are viewed at random, and since it is likely that most people vote on only a portion of the images shown, we will truly never know why some images score well when other similar quality images don't.
I view all images but vote only on a few. The random viewing is not a factor.
04/03/2011 08:00:07 AM · #15
Originally posted by marnet:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Since images are viewed at random, and since it is likely that most people vote on only a portion of the images shown, we will truly never know why some images score well when other similar quality images don't.
I view all images but vote only on a few. The random viewing is not a factor.


...the random viewing may not be a factor for you but it will be for others. In addition, since you vote on only a few, then it follows that all other images don't get the benefit of your vote...and therefore are affected.

Ray
04/03/2011 09:00:41 AM · #16
For me a 6 is technically proficient. A 5 is technically lacking. Higher or lower increases quality or lack thereof on the scale.

Meeting the challenge is the minimum required to get on the voting scale. DPC fails to offer a DNMC checkbox so that you can communicate to the photographer that you aren't voting for them solely because they DNMC. So there has to be another way to communicate that. I used to auto-"1" any DNMC since there is no 0. I've since gone to a -3 penalty which takes a great 7 image to a 3 because they either DNMC or did not properly demonstrate that they did to this voter.

So yes, when I get a 6, I naturally factor it on my scale... so I'm pleased. If I end up with a score 6+, I've done well. (Actually I see a high 5 as a good overall score giving the voters here). When I get a 5 it's a slap. I'd truly rather the person just hate it than give a "meh" score. Especially when there is nothing technically wrong with it.

As stated in my signature, it's also annoying when people vote images differently based on the challenge (apart from DNMC). A 6 photo (or 7 or 8 or 9) should be that in any challenge where it meets the theme. Even Free Studies. And also people vote down images in Free Studies because they feel they should somehow be better or more impactful or whatever. That's just wrong. Rate the image.

Also people like to rank the images compared to another. This is also wrong. 10 does not equal first place. You could have 100 7+ entries and that is fine. You should never score an image down because of what someone else did.
04/03/2011 09:03:23 AM · #17
Just commented on a few that i had previously gave a five, will be interesting to see how many tick the little box, my guess is none but we shall see.
04/03/2011 09:51:59 AM · #18
I like this idea and I may have to try it. It's an interesting approach and I will be curious to see how it affects my thinking while voting.

Paul - the link you gave in your original post takes me back to this thread. Can you edit the link?
04/03/2011 10:03:29 AM · #19
Originally posted by colorcarnival:

I like this idea and I may have to try it. It's an interesting approach and I will be curious to see how it affects my thinking while voting.

Paul - the link you gave in your original post takes me back to this thread. Can you edit the link?


Thanks Michelle

The link back here was intentional, to show the context as to how the idea came about... Did my post create an impression to expect something else?

Thanks

Paul
04/03/2011 10:07:59 AM · #20
Originally posted by paulbtlw:

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

I like this idea and I may have to try it. It's an interesting approach and I will be curious to see how it affects my thinking while voting.

Paul - the link you gave in your original post takes me back to this thread. Can you edit the link?


Thanks Michelle

The link back here was intentional, to show the context as to how the idea came about... Did my post create an impression to expect something else?

Thanks

Paul


yes Paul - I assumed that there was more to the story and that the link would take me there.
04/03/2011 10:13:41 AM · #21
I suppose I just assumed there might be some discussion here to look at by the time someone got to the point that they made some comments under that umbrella.
04/03/2011 10:18:45 AM · #22
One of the things that disappoints me the most is to look at my voting string at the end of a challenge and see just a string of 5s - generally with just a couple of comments.
So I am up for giving this a go as I know I too am guilty of not leaving comments with a vote of 5 .. the reason is that a vote of 4 or 5 from me usually means the picture is technically okay but it's boring. Hence I don't have much to say. Plus boring to me might be another man's pleasure and I don't want to insult.
It's kind of a catch 22 isn't it?
04/03/2011 10:30:36 AM · #23
OK - since a couple of people say they are going to give this a go; I'll throw a few out there too.

I don't want to leave them out there on their own.
04/03/2011 10:42:07 AM · #24
How about we all pick the same challenge? FS maybe?
04/03/2011 10:43:40 AM · #25
If I find time to vote, I'll find time to do this for a handful of images. The challenge for me is that the five-and-not-a-six factor, in my mind, is the same for all images I give fives to. Images that I vote five and under are ones that don't do anything for me personally, whereas six and above are images that have some very real appeal to me. Along the border (five/six) are images that are very much alike: nicely composed, technically well executed, etc. The sixes are the ones I'd put on a wall; the fives are the ones I would not. Fives and sixes probably account for over half the votes I give in any challenge.
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