ND filters - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

02/04/2011 11:33:35 AM · #1

Hi all,

I'm looking to pick up a ND filter, so that I can use longer shutter speeds than would be normally possible, and I'm a tad unsure about which kind of filter to get. Seems to be most folks recommend a 3 or 4-stop ND filter, but there's everything from 0.3 stops to 10-stops.

I don't want to go crazy, but would like to do motion blurs of waterfalls, cars, oceans etc in bright sunlight (ie. middle of the day). I would "think" that 4-stops should do the trick, but I'm not sure if that is overkill?

Anyone with any experience willing to provide their input?

Thanks,
Garry

EL-ROI

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

02/04/2011 11:46:31 AM · #2

I think

bspurgeon uses ND filters often. He gets into the 10 stop range if I'm not mistaken. He could be a resident expert. It might be worth it to shoot him a PM to get his opinion.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

02/04/2011 12:06:36 PM · #3

Just picked up my 9-stop yesterday! I'm excited to try her out.

Do you have a polarizer? That's your first step if not. It's worth 2 stops of ND and the polarizing effect is always helpful with water. Then you can buy a 2-stop ND filter and stack them if you want for 4-stops total. That won't get you blurred water in bright light, but will be good for overcast days or early morning, late afternoon stuff.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

02/04/2011 12:43:45 PM · #4

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I don't have a polarizer...I have looked into them, but my lenses rotate as they focuses, so suspect using a polarizer would be more challenging. Also, I'd rather have one filter than two to have to worry about.

I'm curious about these really big ND filters, what on earth would you need a 9-stop ND filter for??

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

02/04/2011 12:45:23 PM · #5

The Colorado high country is notorious for having a lot of dynamic range in landscape scenes. It's not uncommon for scenes to have 10 to 12 camera stops of range between the darkest shadows and the brightest highlights. While it's possible to use 3 to 5 or more bracketed images and HDR Efex Pro to overcome this light & shadow range, I've found the end result to be not quite right. So, in addition to bracketing exposures, I sometimes use soft grad ND filters to bring the range down to about 7 camera stops. Then, the HDR blending produces a more natural scene.

I have a Lee filter system. My filters are 0.6 (2 stops) and 0.9 (3 stops). The filter holder allows me to stack them. I slightly stagger them, too. A good example of allowing the silk water effect and sunlight in the scene is

. (An image I've rejected as a finalist for 2010 Best.) I also agree about the effectiveness of a polarizing filter, which helps with glare and slows the shutter speed for achieving that optimal 0.5s to 1.5s shutter speed.

When I use the ND filters and the polarizing filter, I lose some image detail and sharpness. It's an issue of light rays hitting so many layers of glass. And, there is ALWAYS a problem with keeping that many layers of glass and plastic clear of dust particles.

Message edited by author 2011-02-04 16:22:53.

02/04/2011 12:51:41 PM · #6

Originally posted by gcoulson:

I'm curious about these really big ND filters, what on earth would you need a 9-stop ND filter for??

It definitely comes in handy if you have bright light and want blur. Exposures times get very long wants the sun dips below the horizion. A circular polarizer is a great place to start as Jason mention.

These were made with a 10 stop ND filter.

Message edited by author 2011-02-04 12:51:54.

02/04/2011 01:39:43 PM · #7

What length shutter speed you looking at there, BSpurgeon?

02/04/2011 01:45:48 PM · #8

Oh! I'm so glad you posted this thread! I just bought some new filters a few months ago and haven't used them yet. I like to stack my filters in general and am looking forward to trying the darker ones!

Yes, Ben do share some words of filter wisdom...The Tao of Ben...is greatly needed...;-)

02/04/2011 02:24:14 PM · #9

Originally posted by gcoulson:

What length shutter speed you looking at there, BSpurgeon?

It depends on the time of day. Sunset is difficult if you want a shutter speed in the 1-3 minute speed at ISO 100 as the fading light will increase your shutter speed. This will happen during an exposure so you need to compensate by adding time at the end. If the sun dips below the horizon during the exposure I usually add at least 20 seconds, but this is a guess. It buys room for exposure compensation in post if needed. Most of beach scenes are in the 1-2 minute range. If you don't mind blurry photos or need a deep DOF you can shoot at large apertures to keep the ISO down. The 10 stop filter will also allow you to shoot in bright light and still achieve motion blur and smooth water/clouds.

jdannels He has others as well.

Another of my beach abstracts with the 10-stop. This was close to three minutes at f/11 ISO 100

ETA: BTW, I'm only an expert at not being expert! My best advise is to experiment!

Message edited by author 2011-02-04 14:25:38.

02/04/2011 02:40:44 PM · #10

Oddly enough, when I think of Joe's work that one is not the first to come to mind (or my favorite of his work and he IS fabulous...yes, yes, I know, he got a blue ribbon so that just shows how much my opinion is worth, right?!...;-P).

However, I do like your own photo as an inspirational use of the ND filter for moodiness and drama!

I will try the 20 second idea as I love to shoot at that time of day...

Thanks, Ben...;-)

02/04/2011 02:58:05 PM · #11

Joe's collection

02/04/2011 03:04:58 PM · #12

I dig this one:

02/04/2011 07:11:11 PM · #13

Silly question, does the camera take the 10 stop reduction into account automatically when determining exposure time, or do you need to do this manually (assuming light stays constant throughout the exposure)?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

02/04/2011 07:31:47 PM · #14

Originally posted by gcoulson:

You will need to compose and meter the scene without the filter first, then calculate the exposure and use either manual or bulb mode. I use my iPhone and ND calculator app to give me the exposure compensation and then functions as a timer. You can also do the math yourself.

If the initial metering without the filter gives 1/125 then 10 stops translates to an 8 sec exposure.

Message edited by author 2011-02-04 19:35:19.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

02/04/2011 07:35:56 PM · #15

Originally posted by bspurgeon:

Originally posted by gcoulson:
Silly question, does the camera take the 10 stop reduction into account automatically when determining exposure time, or do you need to do this manually (assuming light stays constant throughout the exposure)?

You will need to compose and meter the scene without the filter first, then calculate the exposure and use either manual or bulb mode. I use my iPhone and ND calculator app to give me the exposure compensation and then functions as a timer. You can also do the math yourself.

If the initial metering without the filter gives 1/125 then 10 stops translates to an 8 sec exposure.

Couldn't you just click off 30 turns on the dial that controls shutter speed?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

02/04/2011 07:36:33 PM · #16

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by bspurgeon:

Originally posted by gcoulson:
Silly question, does the camera take the 10 stop reduction into account automatically when determining exposure time, or do you need to do this manually (assuming light stays constant throughout the exposure)?

You will need to compose and meter the scene without the filter first, then calculate the exposure and use either manual or bulb mode. I use my iPhone and ND calculator app to give me the exposure compensation and then functions as a timer. You can also do the math yourself.

If the initial metering without the filter gives 1/125 then 10 stops translates to an 8 sec exposure.

Couldn't you just click off 30 turns on the dial that controls shutter speed?

Not if you need bulb. That was just an example, but yes 30 clicks works if the shutter speed is under 30 seconds.

Message edited by author 2011-02-04 19:37:35.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

02/04/2011 07:50:25 PM · #17

Good call. Ok, well, I'm hoping to try mine out this weekend. I'm a mere 27 clicks though since the yahoos here in the Eugene photography store couldn't find a 10-stop filter and didn't really think one existed...

Eagle40Fox2

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 XR DI-II VC LD Aspherical (IF) Zoom Lens for Canon

02/04/2011 07:55:22 PM · #18

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Anyone who tends to do something dumb I call them Eugene which is short for you genius.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

02/04/2011 07:55:59 PM · #19

Originally posted by gcoulson:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Just picked up my 9-stop yesterday! I'm excited to try her out.

Do you have a polarizer? That's your first step if not. It's worth 2 stops of ND and the polarizing effect is always helpful with water. Then you can buy a 2-stop ND filter and stack them if you want for 4-stops total. That won't get you blurred water in bright light, but will be good for overcast days or early morning, late afternoon stuff.

I don't have a polarizer...I have looked into them, but my lenses rotate as they focuses, so suspect using a polarizer would be more challenging. Also, I'd rather have one filter than two to have to worry about.

I'm curious about these really big ND filters, what on earth would you need a 9-stop ND filter for??

You'd love a circular polarizer for other reasons, though. It doesn't matter that your lens rotates, just focus first and then rotate. It's one of the coolest things on the face of the planet.

02/04/2011 07:58:20 PM · #20

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by gcoulson:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Just picked up my 9-stop yesterday! I'm excited to try her out.

Do you have a polarizer? That's your first step if not. It's worth 2 stops of ND and the polarizing effect is always helpful with water. Then you can buy a 2-stop ND filter and stack them if you want for 4-stops total. That won't get you blurred water in bright light, but will be good for overcast days or early morning, late afternoon stuff.

I don't have a polarizer...I have looked into them, but my lenses rotate as they focuses, so suspect using a polarizer would be more challenging. Also, I'd rather have one filter than two to have to worry about.

I'm curious about these really big ND filters, what on earth would you need a 9-stop ND filter for??

You'd love a circular polarizer for other reasons, though. It doesn't matter that your lens rotates, just focus first and then rotate. It's one of the coolest things on the face of the planet.

Wendy's right! I never leave home without it! And I even have a spare!

Message edited by author 2011-02-04 20:00:06.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

02/04/2011 07:59:44 PM · #21

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I actually had to wait several weeks. I ordered a B+W (58mm, $45ish) from The Filter Connection. It was back ordered locally, and Calumet quoted me Spring 2011!

eta: Jason's quote

Message edited by author 2011-02-04 20:00:35.

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

02/04/2011 08:01:12 PM · #22

How to use a 10 stop neutral density filter.

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

02/04/2011 08:22:40 PM · #23

Originally posted by vawendy:

Wendy, the polarizer can rotate one attached?

Bear_Music

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

02/04/2011 08:25:41 PM · #24

Originally posted by gcoulson:

Wendy, the polarizer can rotate one attached?

Yes, the polarizer rotates freely when screwed onto the lens. You have to realign it every time you change focus, if the lens barrel rotates when focusing. You can see the changes in the viewfinder as you rotate it.

R.

Message edited by author 2011-02-04 20:26:12.