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01/18/2011 09:27:53 PM · #151 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Melethia:
The young man who killed his father, great-aunt, and critically wounded his grandmother (it was yesterday, I think) did so with a weapon he was given as a birthday present this past September. He was the legal owner of that weapon. |
OT -- Local reports (this happened about an hour/hour andahalf from here) are speculating that the father (or someone in the family) may have been abusing the boy. "Experts" speculated that in many cases like this, where a young person shoots those he lives with, abuse is almost always the instigating factor. |
I do hope so... And if that is the case, yay guns. |
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01/18/2011 09:44:33 PM · #152 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Melethia:
The young man who killed his father, great-aunt, and critically wounded his grandmother (it was yesterday, I think) did so with a weapon he was given as a birthday present this past September. He was the legal owner of that weapon. |
OT -- Local reports (this happened about an hour/hour andahalf from here) are speculating that the father (or someone in the family) may have been abusing the boy. "Experts" speculated that in many cases like this, where a young person shoots those he lives with, abuse is almost always the instigating factor. |
I do hope so... And if that is the case, yay guns. |
You hope the boy was abused because then he would have had a reason to shoot his family? |
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01/18/2011 09:46:32 PM · #153 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Melethia:
The young man who killed his father, great-aunt, and critically wounded his grandmother (it was yesterday, I think) did so with a weapon he was given as a birthday present this past September. He was the legal owner of that weapon. |
OT -- Local reports (this happened about an hour/hour andahalf from here) are speculating that the father (or someone in the family) may have been abusing the boy. "Experts" speculated that in many cases like this, where a young person shoots those he lives with, abuse is almost always the instigating factor. |
I do hope so... And if that is the case, yay guns. |
You hope the boy was abused because then he would have had a reason to shoot his family? |
I hope that it is a case where a gun saved an innocent person from further abuses... Your wording leaves much to be desired. |
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01/18/2011 09:48:33 PM · #154 |
By the way, I am not anti-gun. People who have guns and use them responsibly and enjoy having their guns - yay! All for it! I don't share the hobby, but I also don't get into NASCAR or chess. Doesn't mean others can't enjoy those hobbies. I certainly don't want to ban them.
I'm just not for irresponsible use of guns. And getting back to the OP's question, I've wanted to go shooting (pictures) in a couple of places here after dark but won't, because I don't think it is safe. If I had a gun, and knew how to use it, I would still not go to those places. A picture is not worth shooting (with a gun) someone over in my opinion.
Message edited by author 2011-01-18 21:49:33. |
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01/18/2011 09:49:22 PM · #155 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Melethia:
The young man who killed his father, great-aunt, and critically wounded his grandmother (it was yesterday, I think) did so with a weapon he was given as a birthday present this past September. He was the legal owner of that weapon. |
OT -- Local reports (this happened about an hour/hour andahalf from here) are speculating that the father (or someone in the family) may have been abusing the boy. "Experts" speculated that in many cases like this, where a young person shoots those he lives with, abuse is almost always the instigating factor. |
I do hope so... And if that is the case, yay guns. |
You hope the boy was abused because then he would have had a reason to shoot his family? |
I hope that it is a case where a gun saved an innocent person from further abuses... Your wording leaves much to be desired. |
Of all the options open to somebody being (allegedly) abused you think shooting his family is a good one? |
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01/18/2011 09:52:42 PM · #156 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Melethia:
The young man who killed his father, great-aunt, and critically wounded his grandmother (it was yesterday, I think) did so with a weapon he was given as a birthday present this past September. He was the legal owner of that weapon. |
OT -- Local reports (this happened about an hour/hour andahalf from here) are speculating that the father (or someone in the family) may have been abusing the boy. "Experts" speculated that in many cases like this, where a young person shoots those he lives with, abuse is almost always the instigating factor. |
I do hope so... And if that is the case, yay guns. |
You hope the boy was abused because then he would have had a reason to shoot his family? |
I hope that it is a case where a gun saved an innocent person from further abuses... Your wording leaves much to be desired. |
Of all the options open to somebody being (allegedly) abused you think shooting his family is a good one? |
If that is what it took. I have a suspicion that he didn't really feel there were other options. Abusers do that you know, make their victims feel like there is no way out.
Message edited by author 2011-01-18 21:53:33. |
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01/18/2011 09:55:06 PM · #157 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Melethia:
The young man who killed his father, great-aunt, and critically wounded his grandmother (it was yesterday, I think) did so with a weapon he was given as a birthday present this past September. He was the legal owner of that weapon. |
OT -- Local reports (this happened about an hour/hour andahalf from here) are speculating that the father (or someone in the family) may have been abusing the boy. "Experts" speculated that in many cases like this, where a young person shoots those he lives with, abuse is almost always the instigating factor. |
I do hope so... And if that is the case, yay guns. |
You hope the boy was abused because then he would have had a reason to shoot his family? |
I hope that it is a case where a gun saved an innocent person from further abuses... Your wording leaves much to be desired. |
Of all the options open to somebody being (allegedly) abused you think shooting his family is a good one? |
If that is what it took. I have a suspicion that he didn't really feel there were other options. Abusers do that you know, make their victims feel like there is no way out. |
You shoot your family, I don't think your problems are over... |
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01/18/2011 10:05:27 PM · #158 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Melethia:
The young man who killed his father, great-aunt, and critically wounded his grandmother (it was yesterday, I think) did so with a weapon he was given as a birthday present this past September. He was the legal owner of that weapon. |
OT -- Local reports (this happened about an hour/hour andahalf from here) are speculating that the father (or someone in the family) may have been abusing the boy. "Experts" speculated that in many cases like this, where a young person shoots those he lives with, abuse is almost always the instigating factor. |
I do hope so... And if that is the case, yay guns. |
You hope the boy was abused because then he would have had a reason to shoot his family? |
I hope that it is a case where a gun saved an innocent person from further abuses... Your wording leaves much to be desired. |
Of all the options open to somebody being (allegedly) abused you think shooting his family is a good one? |
If that is what it took. I have a suspicion that he didn't really feel there were other options. Abusers do that you know, make their victims feel like there is no way out. |
You shoot your family, I don't think your problems are over... |
If your family is abusing you? Yeah, your problems are over, you will spend time in "the system" but in a case like this, that's probably needed, as there is a huge amount of damage that might be helped through counseling, etc, and no matter what happened, the kid was driven to kill his entire family, we really do need to be as sure as we can that he is not a threat before he is released. But as for problems? I can't imagine that he has anything worse in front of him than he already faced (IF he was abused..) |
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01/19/2011 12:02:10 AM · #159 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Yes, indeed, the outcome of the mother intentionally poisoning her daughter or accidentally doing so is EXACTLY THE SAME to the daughter.
The student at Gardenia undergoing surgery to her head probably isn't concerned as to whether it was an accident or not at this point. |
The point I was making is that we do make a distinction between premeditated murder and accidental death. I think the point you're trying to make is that we should count accidental deaths caused by gun fire in gun crime statistics.
Originally posted by Melethia:
And as Robert has said MANY times, advocating the ban of guns in the US of A is totally pointless. Never gonna happen. Gun control laws are not even a possibility. |
Not a possibility? There are literally thousands of federal, state, and municipal gun control laws already on the books. But no doubt you think one or two more will solve the problem. I think perhaps you meant that gun bans are not even a possibility. If so, to that I say "You better hope not." Will You Be Safer If Guns Are Banned?
Originally posted by Melethia:
Advocating responsible use of said weaponry is also pointless. |
The responsible use of guns is already mandated by law. There's no reason why you shouldn't advocate it though.
Originally posted by Melethia:
The young man who killed his father, great-aunt, and critically wounded his grandmother (it was yesterday, I think) did so with a weapon he was given as a birthday present this past September. He was the legal owner of that weapon. |
Not if he lives in California. The minimum legal age to purchase a firearm in California is 18 years of age for rifles or shotguns and 21 years of age for handguns. Also, federal law prohibits the sale of shotguns that are transferred with a pistol-grip only to persons under 21 years old.
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01/19/2011 12:07:34 AM · #160 |
He was in SC, where I *think* you have to be 21.
you have to be over 21 to have a handgun. as a result, it is also illegal, based on my reading of it, to give someone under 21 a handgun. shotguns/rifles, though, have no such restriction (again, based on my reading of it)
Message edited by author 2011-01-19 00:12:12. |
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01/19/2011 12:18:33 AM · #161 |
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01/19/2011 12:18:33 AM · #162 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Yes, indeed, the outcome of the mother intentionally poisoning her daughter or accidentally doing so is EXACTLY THE SAME to the daughter.
The student at Gardenia undergoing surgery to her head probably isn't concerned as to whether it was an accident or not at this point.
And as Robert has said MANY times, advocating the ban of guns in the US of A is totally pointless. Never gonna happen. Gun control laws are not even a possibility.
Advocating responsible use of said weaponry is also pointless.
The young man who killed his father, great-aunt, and critically wounded his grandmother (it was yesterday, I think) did so with a weapon he was given as a birthday present this past September. He was the legal owner of that weapon. |
Banning of guns is impossible in the US? WTH? It's going on right now. Look at the gun laws in DC, New Jersey, New York City, Chicago and Washington DC. |
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01/19/2011 06:43:43 AM · #163 |
you know if we instituted instantaneous capital punishment, they problem would go away quickly.
if you get convicted of murder, no appeals, no jail, just get taken out back and shot. if every state in the US did this to the next two or three people. Yeah there would be an outcry, but you would see crime and murder rates drop overnight.
I don't commit crimes because i don't want my lifestyle to change they way it would if i murdered or committed some other act. Start taking away what is most valuable to the criminals. |
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01/19/2011 07:40:40 AM · #164 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
you know if we instituted instantaneous capital punishment, they problem would go away quickly.
if you get convicted of murder, no appeals, no jail, just get taken out back and shot. if every state in the US did this to the next two or three people. Yeah there would be an outcry, but you would see crime and murder rates drop overnight.
I don't commit crimes because i don't want my lifestyle to change they way it would if i murdered or committed some other act. Start taking away what is most valuable to the criminals. |
totally disagree. people who commit murder are not thinking about the consequences - they are typically caught up in their moment. this might impact some who contemplate premeditated murder, but there would still be those who would think they could get away with it. as is, capital punishment is just that, a punishment. i don't recall reading any studies showing that it is an effective deterrent. whether or not it is a fair punishment is a completely different debate than whether or not photographers (or anyone else) should carry handguns (or machine guns or bazookas or glocks). |
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01/19/2011 10:12:29 AM · #165 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
And as Robert has said MANY times, advocating the ban of guns in the US of A is totally pointless. Never gonna happen. Gun control laws are not even a possibility.
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Ahhh! Someone who equates "ban of guns" with "gun control laws". Think about it.
Is it any wonder that people who wish to continue owning and using guns legally
in the US are nervous about "gun control laws"? Tens of thousands of gun control
laws already exist across the US. I'm surprised no one has suggested people
control laws such as exist in the UK. These would have hung a trail of anti-social
offenses on the AZ assassin long before he committed his murderous act. They could
have stopped the asshole before he acted. Of course, if frogs had wings they wouldn't
bump their little asses on the ground. We might ban one thing that will stop ALL
violent crime. It is the most dangerous weapon on the face of the planet.
The human mind. |
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01/19/2011 12:41:21 PM · #166 |
If you have any doubt about how difficult it is in some states to comply with their gun laws because they're a convoluted mish-mash of laws scattered about in the state code, Google what happened to Brian Aitken when he moved to New Jersey. I'd post a link, but some might claim my source was biased or whatever.
Basically, he owned two handguns that he legally purchased when he lived in Denver. Before moving to NJ, he read up on the gun laws and even consulted the NJ State Police for advice on how to comply with NJ statutes. Despite his best efforts to comply, he was tried, convicted and sentenced to 7 years in prison.
This guy is not some lowlife, he's a successful media consultant.
Restrictive laws that are so convoluted and byzantine that people can't understand them are damn close to becoming bans. |
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01/19/2011 12:48:34 PM · #167 |
Would it be better if the federal government set nationwide gun ownership codes? I guess the individual states would not surrender their right to have their own gun laws?
Originally posted by Spork99:
If you have any doubt about how difficult it is in some states to comply with their gun laws because they're a convoluted mish-mash of laws scattered about in the state code, Google what happened to Brian Aitken when he moved to New Jersey. I'd post a link, but some might claim my source was biased or whatever.
Basically, he owned two handguns that he legally purchased when he lived in Denver. Before moving to NJ, he read up on the gun laws and even consulted the NJ State Police for advice on how to comply with NJ statutes. Despite his best efforts to comply, he was tried, convicted and sentenced to 7 years in prison.
This guy is not some lowlife, he's a successful media consultant.
Restrictive laws that are so convoluted and byzantine that people can't understand them are damn close to becoming bans. |
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01/19/2011 01:17:52 PM · #168 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
you know if we instituted instantaneous capital punishment, they problem would go away quickly. |
Perhaps we should just bring back lynch mobs and do away with those expensive trials as well,eh? ... :-(
So, how do you plan to recompense the families of those wrongfully executed?
Facts on post-conviction exonerations.
Who do we execute when the State commits murder (wrongful death of an innocent person)?
AFAIK every study which has looked into the matter has found the the existence of a captal punishment statute has no effect on preventing/deterring murder. Please feel free to present scientific evidence to the contrary. |
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01/19/2011 01:35:38 PM · #169 |
The pro-gun posters in this thread (and the other one) appear to largely fall somewhere between drooling simpletons and clinically insane. Which has a certain elegant inevitability to it, I must admit.
Please lock this thread and stop embarrassing yourselves. |
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01/19/2011 01:36:07 PM · #170 |
sorry; misfire.
Message edited by author 2011-01-19 13:38:53. |
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01/19/2011 05:02:52 PM · #171 |
Originally posted by ubique:
The pro-gun posters in this thread (and the other one) appear to largely fall somewhere between drooling simpletons and clinically insane. Which has a certain elegant inevitability to it, I must admit.
Please lock this thread and stop embarrassing yourselves. |
Translation: They're not agreeing with me and it's not fair! Make 'em stop, right now! Waaaaahh! Boo hoo...
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01/19/2011 07:25:20 PM · #172 |
Originally posted by ubique:
The pro-gun posters in this thread (and the other one) appear to largely fall somewhere between drooling simpletons and clinically insane. Which has a certain elegant inevitability to it, I must admit.
Please lock this thread and stop embarrassing yourselves. |
Your opinion. Mine differs slightly.
The anti-gun posters in this thread (and the other one) appear to largely fall somewhere between drooling simpletons and clinically insane. Which has a certain elegant inevitability to it, I must admit.
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01/19/2011 07:29:22 PM · #173 |
In America, there is a certain amount of reassurance from being self-reliant. There are some parts of the world which may come to this conclusion, sooner or later.
//www.wirednews.us/news.php/123701-Welsh-police-forces-to-lose-1-600-jobs-says-MP-Bryant |
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01/19/2011 07:48:01 PM · #174 |
It seems like this thread got a bit off topic....
I think the thread starter just wanted an overall census, not a brawl, lol.
Personally I do and don't carry. I never saw the point of carrying my sidearm when I go to costco or safeway. But if I am taking my family to some 'possible trouble spots' I have it on me. I hope I will never have to use it, but I would rather use it than loose a loved one.
Just my two cents,
Travis Walthall |
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01/19/2011 08:22:48 PM · #175 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by ubique:
The pro-gun posters in this thread (and the other one) appear to largely fall somewhere between drooling simpletons and clinically insane. Which has a certain elegant inevitability to it, I must admit.
Please lock this thread and stop embarrassing yourselves. |
Your opinion. Mine differs slightly.
The anti-gun posters in this thread (and the other one) appear to largely fall somewhere between drooling simpletons and clinically insane. Which has a certain elegant inevitability to it, I must admit. |
So your response to the charge of drooling simpletons is to copy and paste?
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