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01/13/2011 05:31:34 PM · #1
Hey all, just poking my head in to say hi, but I need some brainstorming ideas for my mess of a photo library.

Here's my issue:

I have two cameras, my Canon 30D and my point-and-shoot Canon SD780IS. With my 30D I have shot consistently in RAW+JPEG for the last 3 years or so. With the SD780IS it's all JPEG and .mvi (movies). I also have a macbook pro with a 640GB HD and have ALL my pictures stored there and backed up using Time Machine.

Okay, so here's the problem. I have essentially two "libraries," one is the old school manual way using system folders, essentially I have a folder called "Photography" on my desktop with subfolders of 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, etc. I have typically used Adobe Bridge to import my 30D Raw+JPEG files and have put them in my Photography folder. I also have my iPhoto library that I have had since I got my Mac in 2008. Most of my point-and-shoots including camera phone pictures and videos have been imported here. Now, the big problem is tI have not been consistent and stuck to this rule hardfast. I have a mixture where I imported into one and not the other, sometimes into both, and sometimes the opposite of what I described above. So what I have is a big large mix between my Photography folder and iPhoto library. There are duplicates all over the place, the RAW+JPEGs are just a huge mess between both libraries. My Photography folder is 115GB with 16000 files and my iPhoto library is 76GB with 15,000 items.

So, to recap:

iPhoto Library: 15,000 items, 76GB, a mix of all file types from Movies,mostly JPEG, and some RAW+JPEG, not complete
Photography: 16,000 items, 115GB mostly RAW+JPEG, some of my P&S JPEGS, not complete

Goal:

To centralize everything (I can easily sift out movies i think) in one "library" and delete duplicates and unnecessary RAW+JPEG JPEGs on my Mac.

I am going to take advantage of my last semester as a college student to get either Lightroom 3 or Aperture 3 for Mac, each at $80.

I'm trying to decide how I even want to tackle this nightmare. It's really inhibited my photo taking recently because I feel the more I add the bigger the problem, it's been really weighing on me. I just feel so buried and I am a bit of a photo packrat, if anyone has any suggestions, I could really use the help, motivation, moral support from my DPC friends. Thanks!

Message edited by author 2011-01-13 17:32:45.
01/13/2011 07:21:15 PM · #2
Ah, I guess I can get aperture for $69 and Lightroom for $79.

I am just feeling very overwhelmed and need to do something about it before it gets even worse. I am sure some of you have found solutions to similar problems. I know it's really slowed down my picture taking; it's gotten that bad.

(Sorry, shameless bump)

Message edited by author 2011-01-13 19:23:07.
01/13/2011 07:26:16 PM · #3
I had the same issue you described - about 12,000 photos spread across a Mac and a PC - Using a combination of Picasa, iPhoto, and Lightroom.

Eventually, I made a decision, and moved everything into Lightroom on the Mac. Took a few days of sorting through folders and eliminating dupes, and making sure I wasn't accidentally deleting anything.

And make sure you remember to include your movie files in whatever system you decide on, as some software doesn't show movie files in gallery/thumbnail views.
01/13/2011 07:29:57 PM · #4
Originally posted by JH:

I had the same issue you described - about 12,000 photos spread across a Mac and a PC - Using a combination of Picasa, iPhoto, and Lightroom.

Eventually, I made a decision, and moved everything into Lightroom on the Mac. Took a few days of sorting through folders and eliminating dupes, and making sure I wasn't accidentally deleting anything.

And make sure you remember to include your movie files in whatever system you decide on, as some software doesn't show movie files in gallery/thumbnail views.


So, with Lightroom, does it store the actual photos into a new location? Does it recognize dupes?
01/13/2011 07:37:46 PM · #5
Actually, I think I used the Picasa 'show duplicate files' feature to help me eliminate dupes before importing into LR. I'd be surprised if LR doesn't have a plug-in or a similar feature that does this.

And Lightroom stores photos in a normal folder structure (I have the top-level folder set to /users/shared/pictures/originals/...) - I used the 'import from disc' option in Lightroom to move the photos in.
01/13/2011 08:12:40 PM · #6
I think Lightroom is the route I want to go, unless there's compelling evidence to get Aperture (which does look tempting, especially in the Mac App Store).

I think what I need to do is get one of the above programs, block out a day, and just import EVERYTHING into the library and search for dupes, etc. I think I've been trying to sort both my libraries beforehand and each time i just get frustrated and get nowhere. I think what else is daunting is trying to figure how I want to sort my pictures (by date, by event) once I get them into a centralized library.
01/13/2011 09:27:47 PM · #7
Buy an archival 2T USB external hard drive, and copy all your pictures to it. Delete them from your internal hard drive and start over. This is a time-honored variation of "company coming - throw everything into boxes & we'll sort through it later" tactic.
01/13/2011 09:28:45 PM · #8
Originally posted by goinskiing:

Originally posted by JH:

I had the same issue you described - about 12,000 photos spread across a Mac and a PC - Using a combination of Picasa, iPhoto, and Lightroom.

Eventually, I made a decision, and moved everything into Lightroom on the Mac. Took a few days of sorting through folders and eliminating dupes, and making sure I wasn't accidentally deleting anything.

And make sure you remember to include your movie files in whatever system you decide on, as some software doesn't show movie files in gallery/thumbnail views.


So, with Lightroom, does it store the actual photos into a new location? Does it recognize dupes?


No, it leaves them where they are unless you tell it to move them.

The Import process adds an entry to a database that keeps track of the location of the files, Exif data, keywording, and editing steps/history.
01/13/2011 09:29:14 PM · #9
My aunt was a bit of a pack rat, and she had her basement stacked floor to ceiling with her bargains. This taught me a valuable life lesson. "If you can't find it, you ain't got it."
01/13/2011 09:32:39 PM · #10
Yeah, I'm kinda thinking I'm doing the whole start over thing. It's gonna suck, but I think I'll be glad I did. I have been playing around with Lightroom so far and I think that's the way I want to go. I am going to start making the library with the trial until my student version ships from amazon and verified. Wish me luck all!
01/13/2011 09:37:28 PM · #11
Originally posted by goinskiing:

I think Lightroom is the route I want to go, unless there's compelling evidence to get Aperture (which does look tempting, especially in the Mac App Store).

I think what I need to do is get one of the above programs, block out a day, and just import EVERYTHING into the library and search for dupes, etc. I think I've been trying to sort both my libraries beforehand and each time i just get frustrated and get nowhere. I think what else is daunting is trying to figure how I want to sort my pictures (by date, by event) once I get them into a centralized library.


LR has a 30 day trial that you can use to play around with it.

As for sorting, the 'best' way is to religiously tag your pictures and use collections to group pictures together logically, rather than rely on a folder organization (although you can do both, I do). Tagging allows you to have multiple sorting criteria without needing to have duplicate files in different places. For example, I tag all pictures with the camera used, lens used, physical location, people in the picture, type of shot, any accessories that I used, and any specific event information (like the name of an event, or get-together).

If you go through and make sure that you tag all your pictures when you start using it, and every time you import pictures, you'll be be able to keep up and ensure that you don't forget details later.
01/13/2011 10:16:08 PM · #12
Bluray burner. 25GB per disk. 8 disks and you are done.

Oh yeah, go with Lightroom...
01/13/2011 10:26:53 PM · #13
Originally posted by ambaker:

Bluray burner. 25GB per disk. 8 disks and you are done.

Oh yeah, go with Lightroom...


Definitely the way I'm leaning right now. The only thing that's really enticing with Aperture is the whole Mac OSX integration across the board and easily sharing with my family when we're all together, they're all Macs too and we like to share through iPhoto. But as far as the power user type stuff my gut tells me Lightroom.
01/13/2011 10:36:56 PM · #14
Also, with Aperture, I could download it right now.
01/13/2011 11:10:30 PM · #15
Aghhh, this is frustrating, after reading this thread I'm now leaning more toward Aperture:

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=1011803&highlight=lightroom%20vs%20aperture

The thing is that I'm 100% a Mac guy and it seems to play pretty nice across the board. Really, I'm split about 50-50 at this point.
01/13/2011 11:21:04 PM · #16
I have Aperture (which I only use for book publishing), iPhoto (which I only use for jpg snapshots and casual family photos destined for eMail and similar) CS4 (for now) and Bridge. I access all my serious work, stored in ~Pictures > Subfolders (labeled RAWoriginals, Tiffs, JPGs, PrintReady, etc.) through Bridge.
Movies also go into Home >Subfolders (everything filed the way the OS provides).
All's backed up automatically to Time Capsule via TimeMachine.
All important photo files, that is to say all Tiffs, are dated, tagged (for id) and copyrighted.
I've never lost or misplaced a file this way.


01/13/2011 11:23:57 PM · #17
Originally posted by zeuszen:

I have Aperture (which I only use for book publishing), iPhoto (which I only use for jpg snapshots and casual family photos destined for eMail and similar) CS4 (for now) and Bridge. I access all my serious work, stored in ~Pictures > Subfolders (labeled RAWoriginals, Tiffs, JPGs, PrintReady, etc.) through Bridge.
Movies also go into Home >Subfolders (everything filed the way the OS provides).
All's backed up automatically to Time Capsule via TimeMachine.
All important photo files, that is to say all Tiffs, are dated, tagged (for id) and copyrighted.
I've never lost or misplaced a file this way.


This is pretty close to what I have been doing, but the problem is that I have a little bit of both. I have some photos in just iPhoto, some in just folders, and some in both. It's really a mess and I have been wanting to get them ALL centralized. The more I have been thinking about it, I kind of want the videos all centralized as well so that's why I have been leaning toward Aperture 3 now.
01/14/2011 12:22:13 AM · #18
Oh, I've also noticed with Aperture 3 that I can get it though the Mac App store and have it installed on all my Macs. I mean I just have my MacBook Pro now, but I plan on getting an iMac later this year sometime and your can have all mac app store apps (including A3) on each computer. Cool. Great, now I'm leaning toward Aperture 3.
01/14/2011 12:46:18 AM · #19
I am only familiar with Lightroom, but it has good sorting using its "Smart Collections" feature, which is basically a way to sort by any given criteria you specify (aspect ratio, file size, capture time, etc). If *everything* is in a folder, Smart Collections will help you sort to find duplicates.

That being said, my advice would be to import *everything* like you said, but into new folders using your new and *refined* system of classifying (i.e. whatever way works for you).

When you import, leave the old mess behind, intact and on a backup drive. Then clean up what you've imported, either all at once one day with a huge pot of strong coffee, or over time, deleting, sorting, classifying duplicates and pictures as you come across them.

I wouldn't delete the old stuff because it is just so likely you'll delete something by accident and you won't realize until later, or you may decide to just scrap it all and start the whole process over.

Chances are you're going to continue to personalize your own system as it works for you and as you learn what works, so be sure to keep "improvement" available as an option.

Alright now, good luck!
01/14/2011 12:52:18 AM · #20
Originally posted by goinskiing:

Oh, I've also noticed with Aperture 3 that I can get it though the Mac App store and have it installed on all my Macs. I mean I just have my MacBook Pro now, but I plan on getting an iMac later this year sometime and your can have all mac app store a
pps (including A3) on each computer. Cool. Great, now I'm leaning toward Aperture 3.


Aperture user here also, and definitely prefer over lightroom. I've tried lightroom several times but don't seem to get along with it. Hope you find it to be what you need.
01/14/2011 12:52:41 AM · #21
Try this to sort out the different types of files. Open Finder, highlight the main HD. Click "File" then "Find" then type in the file type I/E .jpg .avi or whatever, and you will have a list of every file with that suffix all in one group.

You can also find images in iPhoto using the search box at the bottom. It will find photos by keywords, date, filename, or by description if you put descriptions or keywords with them when you put them in iPhoto. Use "Photos" "Batch Change" to label a batch of them at one time. I would guess that Aperture works the same way.

Be sure to keep your camera dates and times synched, so that iPhoto can keep them in the order that they were shot.

You can also create and use several iPhoto libraries if you want. Hold down the option key when you open iPhoto and it will prompt you to choose or create a library.


Message edited by author 2011-01-14 00:55:52.
01/14/2011 12:53:52 AM · #22
Hey thanks for the input! I'm feeling more encouraged now. I think my major mental hangup up to this point has been trying to keep the current "organization" intact, but I'm abandoning that now and going to start fresh. I'm getting a couple backups ready as we speak before I import in to the Aperture 3 library. (I'm doing the trial before I buy it)

Originally posted by adigitalromance:

That being said, my advice would be to import *everything* like you said, but into new folders using your new and *refined* system of classifying (i.e. whatever way works for you).


Do this before the import, or does it toss all the pictures into one big folder, but organized within the library? (For LR3 anyways or A3 if someone knows)

Message edited by author 2011-01-14 00:54:50.
01/14/2011 12:58:03 AM · #23
One of my major issues I forgot to bring up is the whole RAW+JPEG deal. I have sometimes shot in just RAW and sometimes just JPEG, but most have been RAW+JPEG and honestly, that's one of my biggest headaches because it just looks like a mess. Can Aperture recognize and somehow consolidate the RAW+JPEGs?
01/14/2011 12:59:20 AM · #24
I am guessing, but I think that you can probably create several Aperture libraries by using the same method. Hold the option key when you open Aperture. That way you can have one library for each year if you sort the images that way when you import them.

With iPhoto and probably Aperture, enter the file type in the search box. That will bring up all of that file type. Select all (command A ) and then create a new album. You can separate them that way.

Message edited by author 2011-01-14 01:03:07.
01/14/2011 01:09:21 AM · #25
Originally posted by goinskiing:

One of my major issues I forgot to bring up is the whole RAW+JPEG deal. I have sometimes shot in just RAW and sometimes just JPEG, but most have been RAW+JPEG and honestly, that's one of my biggest headaches because it just looks like a mess. Can Aperture recognize and somehow consolidate the RAW+JPEGs?


Yes, definitely you can bring both in and then the images are stacked, you can define how you want them, either the jpeg as master or the raw as master. Screen shot below is from the import menu. You also can select where you want the files to be stored, either in the aperture library or continuing to use the folder system. I tend to use the folder system rather than having everything in the library.

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