HDR> BASIC? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM II

01/13/2011 02:37:24 AM · #2

No
But check out this tutorial for basic legal "tonemapping"

Vpphoto

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

01/13/2011 02:47:03 AM · #3

So with basic rules. what are u NOT allowed to do. I know i have read the "may" and you "MAY NOT" section. But i am still confused. Are you allowed to make a new layer and commanded?? For example using adjustment layer? Then bring them together etc. Or Press crtl J and add some dodging then bring the two layers together.

Judi

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

01/13/2011 03:09:22 AM · #4

Originally posted by Vpphoto:

No dodging or burning and only allowed one pixel layer...eg. background layer. You can use adjustment layers but no masking or pixel based adjustment layers.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/13/2011 05:43:30 AM · #5

Originally posted by Silent-Shooter:

No
But check out this tutorial for basic legal "tonemapping"

This tutorial is actually out-of-date; while the process it describes is still legal, the tutorial was written at a time when the basic rules banned the use of "tone mapping" a la photomatix pro or topaz and that's no longer the case. You can do quasi-HDR by tone mapping images created from a single exposure, as long as you use only a single original. In other words, you can't make 3 "exposures" from lighter/darker versions of a single RAW exposure and combine them, but you CAN tone map the original exposure, and it's done all the time.

Example from Contre Jour challenge:

from

R.

Message edited by author 2011-01-13 05:53:13.

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

01/13/2011 07:03:52 AM · #6

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

In other words, you can't make 3 "exposures" from lighter/darker versions of a single RAW exposure and combine them, but you CAN tone map the original exposure, and it's done all the time.

Maybe I am missing something. As I understant it, you would need to create adjustment layers (screen & multiply) to create an HDR from multiple images. Even if they are created from the same RAW then these adjustment layers would contain image data. The Basic Editing rules say: use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent). An Adjustment Layer is a special type of layer containing no image data that lets you experiment with color and tonal adjustments without permanently modifying the pixels. Adjustment Layers must be applied in Normal mode.

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

01/13/2011 07:50:58 AM · #7

That's Bear's point... you can't create or us multiple images, only tonemap the original.
ETA: The issue is twofold in what you describe... multiple images and illegal layers.

Message edited by author 2011-01-13 07:51:40.

01/13/2011 08:19:57 AM · #8

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

That's Bear's point... you can't create or us multiple images, only tonemap the original.
ETA: The issue is twofold in what you describe... multiple images and illegal layers.

My question is this: In basic editing, can you include image data in adjustment layers?

It sounds like tone-mapping can be more than just playing with the color curves.

Here are some examples using a single capture.
1) Can you copy the image layer then switch the copy from normal to overlay?
2) Gausian blur is permitted. Could you do example 1 and then blur the overlay copy?
3) Bring in copies from a single RAW at different exposure settings and combine them using screen and multiply?

PapaBob

01/13/2011 08:39:47 AM · #9

I know sooner or later the question about Nik's new HDR program being used in basic will be raised if has not already been, Nik's software allows the image to be created with or without creating a new layer so it can be used for a single image and takes the image from raw into the HDR program then the HDR adjustments are made and from there it creates the image in PS with no layers. Not sure if this has been discussed or if there has been any rulings on this yet, if not maybe its time for the test image......

PapaBob

01/13/2011 08:43:47 AM · #10

Originally posted by Marty:

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
That's Bear's point... you can't create or us multiple images, only tonemap the original.
ETA: The issue is twofold in what you describe... multiple images and illegal layers.

My question is this: In basic editing, can you include image data in adjustment layers?

It sounds like tone-mapping can be more than just playing with the color curves.

Here are some examples using a single capture.
1) Can you copy the image layer then switch the copy from normal to overlay?
2) Gausian blur is permitted. Could you do example 1 and then blur the overlay copy?
3) Bring in copies from a single RAW at different exposure settings and combine them using screen and multiply?

My understanding is no to all of those things, you can only use an adjustment layer for tone curves etc and the layer needs to be kept in normal mode, any changes to the mode would make it illegal.

scalvert

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/13/2011 08:44:01 AM · #11

Originally posted by Marty:

My question is this: In basic editing, can you include image data in adjustment layers?

Adjustment layers NEVER contain data. Screen and multiply are not adjustment layers.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/13/2011 10:34:48 AM · #12

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Marty:
My question is this: In basic editing, can you include image data in adjustment layers?

Adjustment layers NEVER contain data. Screen and multiply are not adjustment layers.

So my three examples above would be leagle in basic editing? That opens up a whole new world.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

01/13/2011 10:36:58 AM · #13

Originally posted by Marty:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Marty:
My question is this: In basic editing, can you include image data in adjustment layers?

Adjustment layers NEVER contain data. Screen and multiply are not adjustment layers.

So my three examples above would be leagle in basic editing? That opens up a whole new world.

No -- all three of your examples are illegal under Basic editing rules -- you are duplicating the image layer, and/or changing the blending mode, neither of which is legal.

scalvert

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/13/2011 10:49:34 AM · #14

Originally posted by Marty:

So my three examples above would be leagle in basic editing? That opens up a whole new world.

No. Adding any layer with data on it is illegal in Basic. Overlays, blending modes other than normal for adjustment layers, and multiple exposures from a RAW file would all be DQ'd.

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

01/13/2011 11:03:53 AM · #15

Originally posted by PapaBob:

I expect it falls into the same category as all of the other Nik software... Basically, it boils down to the fact that you can't use the control points in basic, and nothing else.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

01/13/2011 11:07:33 AM · #16

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Marty:
So my three examples above would be leagle in basic editing? That opens up a whole new world.

No. Adding any layer with data on it is illegal in Basic. Overlays, blending modes other than normal for adjustment layers, and multiple exposures from a RAW file would all be DQ'd.

Originally posted by scalvert:

Screen and multiply are not adjustment layers.

I�m confused. As I understand it, adding multiple exposures from a single RAW file is legal in basic and screen and multiply are legal in basic. Are only certain methods of combining different versions of a single RAW allowed. I assume that the automated methods may do something like screen and multiply anyway.

giantmike

Canon EOS R6

01/13/2011 11:15:41 AM · #17

Originally posted by Marty:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Marty:
So my three examples above would be leagle in basic editing? That opens up a whole new world.

No. Adding any layer with data on it is illegal in Basic. Overlays, blending modes other than normal for adjustment layers, and multiple exposures from a RAW file would all be DQ'd.

Originally posted by scalvert:
Screen and multiply are not adjustment layers.

I�m confused. As I understand it, adding multiple exposures from a single RAW file is legal in basic and screen and multiply are legal in basic. Are only certain methods of combining different versions of a single RAW allowed. I assume that the automated methods may do something like screen and multiply anyway.

Nope, adding multiple exposures from a single RAW file is NOT legal in basic.

scalvert

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/13/2011 11:16:40 AM · #18

Originally posted by Marty:

As I understand it, adding multiple exposures from a single RAW file is legal in basic and screen and multiply are legal in basic. Are only certain methods of combining different versions of a single RAW allowed. I assume that the automated methods may do something like screen and multiply anyway.

Your understanding is incorrect. "You may use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent). An Adjustment Layer is a special type of layer containing no image data that lets you experiment with color and tonal adjustments without permanently modifying the pixels. Adjustment Layers must be applied in Normal mode." Multiple exposures from a RAW file would require a data layer and definitely result in DQ.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/13/2011 11:17:18 AM · #19

Originally posted by Marty:

Originally posted by basic rules:

You May: use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent). An Adjustment Layer is a special type of layer containing no image data that lets you experiment with color and tonal adjustments without permanently modifying the pixels. Adjustment Layers must be applied in Normal mode.

In other words, the only layers you can use are adjustment layers, which are layers that do not contain pixels, and you can only use them in normal mode; multiply and screen are alternate layer modes and are illegal in basic. You cannot "add multiple exposures from a single RAW file" because that would require creating a layer that contains pixels, and this (by definition) is not considered an adjustment layer.

The image I showed earlier is tone mapped directly on the original layer using Nik HDR Efex Pro, without any local controls applied at all; i.e. no selections have been made to favor one area over the other when adjusting.

R.

ETA: I see Shannon beat me to it.

Message edited by author 2011-01-13 11:18:04.

Neil

Fujifilm X-T30

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

01/13/2011 11:17:36 AM · #20

Originally posted by Marty:

No, you cannot combine exposures using any method in basic. Pixel Layers are not allowed at all in Basic--only adjustment layers.