Out of Balance - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 15-85mm IS USM

01/03/2011 11:36:33 PM · #26

Originally posted by omniscientdeveloper:

Even though I cannot participate in this challenge, I was curious. Reading the posts in this thread got the musician side of my brain thinking. In music, we use balance and imbalance, tonality and atonality, to "create drama", as stated by fotomann_forever. One thing I've learned about imbalance (as it applies to music), is that it usually takes trained ears to appreciate.

I'm interested to see what comes out of this challenge, because my eyes aren't trained yet, and I'm eager to learn.

As a musician myself I can vouch that that is exactly the same...just different art forms. One being visual and the other obviously aural.

pixelpig

Sony Alpha a55

Sony DT 1.8/50mm SAM

01/03/2011 11:45:19 PM · #27

how about this one, is it out of balance?

Sony FE 24-105mm F4 G OSS

01/04/2011 12:07:25 AM · #28

Would this be considered out of balance?

MargaretNet

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

01/04/2011 12:21:54 AM · #29

My first impressions:
the fork - no, the portrait - yes
Anyone else?

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/04/2011 12:25:42 AM · #30

Originally posted by DCNUTTER:

Yo_Spiff is correct when he says it normally breaks the compositional rules and is visually unbalanced.

GeneralE is incorrect when he says the photo is considered unbalanced if it contains say a mentally unbalanced person, and unbalanced object. Unbalanced lighting is correct to a certain extent, but it's highly subjective.

Pardon me, but how dare you? Just because someone's interpretation or opinion -- especially when it comes to "art" -- doesn't agree with yours, does not make it "incorrect" -- only different.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

01/04/2011 12:59:18 AM · #31

This seems out of balance to me, but is EXTREMELY effective.

tanguera

Nikon D750

01/04/2011 01:04:32 AM · #32

I don't know. I'm just not getting it.

DCNUTTER

Canon EF-S 15-85mm IS USM

01/04/2011 01:18:39 AM · #33

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
Yo_Spiff is correct when he says it normally breaks the compositional rules and is visually unbalanced.

GeneralE is incorrect when he says the photo is considered unbalanced if it contains say a mentally unbalanced person, and unbalanced object. Unbalanced lighting is correct to a certain extent, but it's highly subjective.

Pardon me, but how dare you? Just because someone's interpretation or opinion -- especially when it comes to "art" -- doesn't agree with yours, does not make it "incorrect" -- only different.

How dare I? Don't take offense to me explaining the true definition of what an out of balance shot is. I'm not stating my opinion of what I think it is...I'm stating actual facts of what it is...period. You were stating YOUR interpretation of what the CHALLENGE means and confusing the situation. That is in a nutshell what's wrong with most challenges here other than the Free Study. People can shoot what they want, they can submit any photo to any challenge where it's a DNMC or not, but that does NOT change what the proper definition is of any particular style, genre or technique of photography is. Case in point...Motion Blur versus Out of Focus challenges. People continually open up threads like this and debate it to no end. Photos regardless of the quality of art display continually win certain challenges even though they are DNMC in the truest definition. There is a distinct difference and between the look of...and definition of something that is out of focus or motioned blurred but people who are here for photography whether as a hobby or desired profession continue to ignore that and the voters do as well. You can't..and shouldn't vote on something if you don't understand what it is you're looking at in the first place.

The challenge description reads:

Out of Balance · Advanced Editing
Balance is an important element of photography. Create a .. [more] photo which is out of balance, but still effective.

That challenge says NOTHING about the subject being tilted or out of balance and it certainly doesn't imply that someone who is mentally unstable would fit the challenge. Again, that's YOUR interpretation which is fine, but like it or not it's off base from the ART FORM you're preaching about. For what it's worth...the challenge title doesn't read OFF Balance...it reads out of balance which anyone who have ever studies photography would know what that means composition wise.

Sorry that you are easily offended by someone responding to your words, but I personally try to clarify things when I help people and not contaminate the art of photography with bad interpretations. I deal with facts, and if it were just my opinion I would have stated that.

fotomann_forever

01/04/2011 01:34:33 AM · #34

Originally posted by tanguera:

I don't know. I'm just not getting it.

It's not easy... even if you completely understand what is being said in words, your brain will fight it. Humans don't like dissonance, which is basically what you're trying to create in your image.

There was a mention of musical dissonance or "unstable" sounds. In music, they tend to be resolved, which brings the listener back to a relaxed state. That's significant;y more difficult with one visual frame.

DCNUTTER

Canon EF-S 15-85mm IS USM

01/04/2011 01:50:25 AM · #35

Ok, maybe this will help some people. I did a google search to illustrate my explanation of what an out of balance photo is in my previous comments. Hopefully this will clarify my words and example.

My search terms/phrase was: "examples of visually out of balance photographs"

Here are two results that I think will help. I scanned through the text and viewed the photo examples and it seems sufficient. One is more detailed and technical in regards to how the brain perceives things, but it's very interesting.

Balance in Photography

and

Balance in Photography 2

Dave

Message edited by author 2011-01-04 01:52:24.

omniscientdeveloper

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

01/04/2011 03:19:24 AM · #36

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by tanguera:
I don't know. I'm just not getting it.

It's not easy... even if you completely understand what is being said in words, your brain will fight it. Humans don't like dissonance, which is basically what you're trying to create in your image.

There was a mention of musical dissonance or "unstable" sounds. In music, they tend to be resolved, which brings the listener back to a relaxed state. That's significant;y more difficult with one visual frame.

I was going to add that as well, but I didn't want to get too technical/musical. If you search on Youtube, you could find examples of atonal music. I like Arnold Schoenberg. Anyway, this is music that does not conform to any key, and to untrained ears, will sound like noise. I think the photographic equivalent will have the same effect on most people, and maybe most photographers.

Although I'm not experienced enough as a musician to create an "effective" atonal composition, I do understand the theory enough to appreciate it. I don't understand photography theory enough to vote on an "effective", imbalanced, picture. All I could do is ask someone more experienced why it was effective.

smardaz

01/04/2011 03:50:11 AM · #37

i'm going to take a picture of a mentally unbalanced photographer trying to tell another photographer how he should be shooting at a wedding....then we'll have unbalance AND tension in the photo....

Message edited by author 2011-01-04 03:50:34.

fotomann_forever

01/04/2011 03:58:10 AM · #38

Originally posted by smardaz:

i'm going to take a picture of a mentally unbalanced photographer trying to tell another photographer how he should be shooting at a wedding....then we'll have unbalance AND tension in the photo....

10 + a fave :)

JulietNN

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

01/04/2011 11:03:36 AM · #39

Originally posted by marnet:

OUCH!! I am only new here!

Not sure why you would say that. I was only trying to give you a helpful suggestion.

As you can see, everyone interprets challenge descriptions differently, there is never a black and white description that people can agree on here. So shoot what you think it means and in the style you like.

01/04/2011 11:25:50 AM · #40

Originally posted by DCNUTTER:

Balance in Photography

and

Balance in Photography 2

Dave

Thanks for the explanation and the excellent references. I feel like I've just had a high quality art class.

sjhuls

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/04/2011 11:43:22 AM · #41

Originally posted by JuliBoc:

Originally posted by DCNUTTER:

Balance in Photography

and

Balance in Photography 2

Dave

Thanks for the explanation and the excellent references. I feel like I've just had a high quality art class.

After reviewing the second link I think I finally get it and have a great shot in mind. (well at least I think I do) I get the part of what an unbalanced photo is. That would be easy, the part I still am having trouble grasping is the "and still is affective" part.

01/04/2011 12:27:03 PM · #42

Originally posted by sjhuls:

... the part I still am having trouble grasping is the "and still is affective" part.

Ah, and there lies the challenge.

crowis

Canon EOS-60D

Sony FE 24-105mm F4 G OSS

01/04/2011 01:25:00 PM · #43

Hmmm. . .

I find these pre-submission challenge threads interesting. I have gone through the histories and reviewed several of them, and have come to the conclusion that most of them are the exact same conversation, related a hundred times.

I don't really have a problem with that.

The only thing that bothers me a little bit, is that these threads seem to become (IMO) a way to gather pre-submission points of view and opinion polls of ideas for shots, rather than purely technical understanding of what the SC might be pointing at with the challenge idea. . .which of course the SC doesn't seem to involve themselves with much (good for them). In a way, you might as well post the pic you are going to submit and get pre-ratings for it so you can re-shoot if you are going to use the thread in that manner.

I visited this thread to get more of an understanding of what "Out of Balance" meant, as I want to shoot for the challenge, and I appreciate the input.

That said, I don't think anyone here is going to change anyone's minds on the tired Scientific Interpretation vs. Personal Interpretation of Challenge debate that has been going on for years on the site.

I personally am on the Scientific side, but not so much so that I won't occasionally vote a photo well if the photographer submits a shot that is an interesting play on words or humorous(as long as it is done well).

I just wonder, why anyone is allowed to submit pre-ideas or photos of "what might be a good idea" before the challenge. Seems to be an easy way to determine if my idea would be mainstream enough to garner a decent vote?

MargaretNet

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

01/04/2011 03:47:34 PM · #44

Originally posted by sjhuls:

So do I. It is clearly a contradiction which was not present in other challenges, for example, Bit & Pieces challenge did not even need a description.

MargaretNet

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Sony FE 24-105mm F4 G OSS

01/04/2011 04:15:17 PM · #45

Originally posted by DCNUTTER:

Here are two results that I think will help. I scanned through the text and viewed the photo examples and it seems sufficient. One is more detailed and technical in regards to how the brain perceives things, but it's very interesting.

Balance in Photography

and

Balance in Photography 2

Dave

Thanks, Dave. Great resources, especially the first one. And on composition overall, not just the balance. It will help me with all other challenges as I am going to give this one a miss after all. I know now what the elements of good composition are but still do not know how to make it OUT of balance while being EFFECTIVE. I look forward to voting on this one. Should be interesting!

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/04/2011 04:21:20 PM · #46

Originally posted by marnet:

... I am going to give this one a miss after all.

How do you plan to improve if you don't challenge yourself with the difficult or unfamiliar?

Please, ask yourself whether or not your photographic improvement/experience is more important than your overall average score, and only then decide whether or not to enter.

01/04/2011 04:23:17 PM · #47

Originally posted by crowis:

...
I just wonder, why anyone is allowed to submit pre-ideas or photos of "what might be a good idea" before the challenge. Seems to be an easy way to determine if my idea would be mainstream enough to garner a decent vote?

I haven't seen any "pre" photos posted in this thread -- just existing examples of photos from prior challenges that might help us better grasp the concept of 'out of balance yet effective'.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/04/2011 04:25:00 PM · #48

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by marnet:
... I am going to give this one a miss after all.

How do you plan to improve if you don't challenge yourself with the difficult or unfamiliar?

Please, ask yourself whether or not your photographic improvement/experience is more important than your overall average score, and only then decide whether or not to enter.

That's what I love about this site -- it stretches me beyond the bounds of comfort, which leads to growth.

Abra

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

01/04/2011 04:35:58 PM · #49

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I'm in and this may end up being my lowest scoring shot. Unfortunately, I agree with the General which is why my average score is low and my ribbon count is zero :-)

crowis

Canon EOS-60D