Digital Photo-Shop Challenge - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

12/02/2010 08:12:38 PM · #1

Maybe its just me but it appears that unless your a master at Photo Shop you don't stand a chance at finishing a contest with a descent score.
Now I havent been a member long and i havent had my camera long so maybe i am just a old school thinker. To me, I enjoy nice unedited photo's much more then the photo shopped versions. It is much more of a challenge to take a nice stock photo then to take that same 1 and tweak the living end out of in with a software program.

In the end, what gets submitted, do they really understand photography or have they simply mastered the use of Photo Shop?

Adz

Nikon D80

12/02/2010 08:17:40 PM · #2

I posted something like this a few weeks back, and I got a really good reply from somebody.
It was something like 'Photoshop should be used to make a great photograph a fantastic one, and not a bad photograph an OK one.'
I think that's a really good way of looking at it and what it can do to help your images.

I also disagree with the comment of saying 'you have to be a master on photoshop to get a decent score' because as long as you have an image you are proud of, just the basic of editing can improve your image so much i.e Levels, Saturation etc.

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

12/02/2010 08:40:11 PM · #3

there are alot of good photoshoppers here who don't have ribbons. and a lot of ribbon winner who aren't really great at photoshop.

you don't need photoshop, but you need some sort of imaging software to "finish" of your pictures.

with the exception of the occasional expert editing challenge, the level of photoshop that is allowed isn't going to save many bad photos. The people that win ribbons took a really good picture.

my highest rated photo scored over a 7 with no ribbon and i barely touched it, in fact i didnt even photoshop it, i used adobe lightroom to adjust some color saturation, and some very minor sharpening.

i find that i like lightroom to touch up my challenge photos and i only play with photo for side challenges and my personal collection. its rare that i enter a photo that spent any time in photoshop. to add, you can get almost the same level of control from lightroom with the raw editor came with my camera.

to add one little secret, its not knowing photoshop its knowing what the voters like, shoot wine glasses, lots of pretty colorful background wine glsses :)

Message edited by author 2010-12-02 20:41:21.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

12/02/2010 08:40:11 PM · #4

Originally posted by adamelliott111:

I had no idea what a layer was for the first 1.25 years I was here. I worked strictly with levels & saturation -- using photoshop elements, and I didn't even have the curves plug in. After awhile I did a tad of dodging and burning. That's it. That's exactly what I did in the days of film -- I'd often bring it back to the developer and have them adjust the color or have them print it at +1 density. I didn't have them dodge and burn, but it's certainly something photographers would do in the darkroom.

I was 12th in overall ribbons/top 10s in 2009, with nothing but basic editing skills.

I had the same feeling when I first started, but it just isn't the case. Yes, there are people with awesome photoshop skills, but not everyone does. And they are definitely not needed in order to do well on this site.

Message edited by author 2010-12-02 20:44:58.

12/02/2010 08:43:03 PM · #5

Originally posted by vawendy:

I had the same feeling when I first started, but it just isn't the case.

same here.

but the more i entered, and more feedback got, there better the pictures come out of the camera.

to be honest i don't even care about my scores, i just look forward to the comments. It feels good when you have a photo that someone takes the time to comment on, good or bad, you know you did something right.

Message edited by author 2010-12-02 20:45:18.

12/02/2010 08:51:56 PM · #6

What you need is to know what you are doing. Sometimes that is in the area of postprocessing skills, sometimes not. I feel the challenge rules are there to ensure the contest remains primarily about photography and not building something in the computer. Some of my ribbons have taken a lot of massaging, but others took little more than some basic adjustments.

I have been giving some thought lately as to what the "secret" is. There have been a lot of little lessons learned that have finally all come together for me. What they have come together as is developing an ability to recognize the good shot when it is in front of you, and knowing what to do with it. Both when shooting it and when choosing and editing it later on. That's pretty broad and vague, of course, but it encompasses a lot of things.

Message edited by author 2010-12-02 20:53:06.

12/02/2010 08:56:52 PM · #7

Thanks for your comments, it is very helpful. Like i said, i am new at this and am still learning what i can do with my Camera. I just got it in Oct. My previous camera was a 35mm Canon T5 which i bought a very long time ago.

The most i do with any of my photos is adjust the sharpness and color with a free online website. Not that I dont want to use programs like Photoshop, i simply just dont own it or know at all how to use it.

Now I'm not saying any of my photos deserve higher scores and i am sure as i learn more about Photography, my photos will improve. I'm just not sure i could ever get to where my photos will ever reach the top 10 area without learning & using some form of a software editing tool.

12/02/2010 09:10:51 PM · #8

Originally posted by JarHead:

your canon should have come with pretty decent editing software, and i believe an update was just released, i would check it out.

start with adjusting sliders just to see what happens.

photoshop is a very powerful tool and it is way overkill for just touching up photos, photoshop is for creating images.

also adobe allows you to download all their software and try it free for 30 days. you may want to try elements, or lightroom they are way cheaper and will most likely fit the bill of what you want to do.

you also have less expensive options like paintshop pro.

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/02/2010 09:17:45 PM · #9

My second highest score to date and top 10 finish have very little processing.

Get the exposure, composition and lighting down and you will do well. The processing will come as you practice.

12/02/2010 09:20:20 PM · #10

Yes my Canon (T1i) did come with all sorts of utilities. I opened them once or maybe twice but didnt go into great detail with them. For now, i am still learning what i can do with the camera and plan on looking into the different software options later on.

I have signed up for the local Photography club which meets once a Month and also purchased a 2 hour Photography tour with a very popular local photographer. He is going to show me where he goes to take wildlife photos as well as show me how to select different settings on my camera for the different environments. really looking forward to both of them as well as learning what i can on my own.

12/02/2010 09:23:15 PM · #11

Originally posted by mike_311:

you also have less expensive options like paintshop pro.

Which does darn near everything that Photoshop can, as well as running most PhotoShop plugins. There are some areas where Photoshop is certainly superior, but PSP hasn't been holding me back any and the price is right. If you are on a serious budget you can get PSP XI for $5.95 (US) and X2 for $22.95 (US) at Purplus software. Corel is selling the current version X3 for $39.95 directly. (Their site is down for maintenance at the moment, or I would have posted a link)

Message edited by author 2010-12-02 21:28:27.

Neat

Canon Canon 1d x Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/02/2010 09:44:58 PM · #12

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by mike_311:
you also have less expensive options like paintshop pro.

Which does darn near everything that Photoshop can, as well as running most PhotoShop plugins. There are some areas where Photoshop is certainly superior, but PSP hasn't been holding me back any and the price is right. If you are on a serious budget you can get PSP XI for $5.95 (US) and X2 for $22.95 (US) at Purplus software. Corel is selling the current version X3 for $39.95 directly. (Their site is down for maintenance at the moment, or I would have posted a link)

does the /store.purplus.net/copashprophx.html]PSP XI for $5.95 have layers, or topaz ?

Message edited by author 2010-12-02 21:45:23.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

12/02/2010 10:01:55 PM · #13

i have PSP X3 at work that I use for distortion remove of field photos (becuase PS cant do it right...lol) but i never edited with it.

The really nice thing about PS and LR is the non-destructive adjustments, does PSP have that ability?

Message edited by author 2010-12-02 22:02:09.

tanguera

Nikon D750

12/02/2010 10:15:03 PM · #14

I haven't won any ribbons but have seen my scores improving consistently during my time here. For the most part, I process my images minimally, but judiciously - a certain amount of processing adds a "polished" finish which is sometimes not achievable "in-camera". Sometimes just a tiny tweak of contrast or levels brings an image to life. If anything has changed at all, it is my feelings towards processing! Knowledge is a good thing :-)

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/02/2010 10:34:38 PM · #15

Frankly if you don't use some editing software your pictures will be dull. To get the brightness and clarity that film gives, you need to increase contrast, mess with curves and levels and do some USM. That will get you something nearly as good as the quality of film. Then you need to do your printing work, crop, mask, dodge and burn, vingette.

And when that is done, you will have the print that shooting film would have given you. The basics.

If you wanted to print like Ansel Adams did, you would be just starting to pull out the friskets and the time and tricks to make a really good "Old School" print.

Digital cameras suffer from the limits of technology, and are not natively capable of producing finished images. Doing no Photoshop work is not a sign of a great shooter, IMHO, so much as a sign of a person who is not sure what kind of images they intended to make when they pressed the shutter.

12/02/2010 11:14:46 PM · #16

Originally posted by Neat:

PSP XI for $5.95 have layers, or topaz ?

Yes and sort of. PSP XI does have layers. Topaz is a third party plugin that does work in PaintShop Pro, but must be purchased separately from Topaz Labs. PSP does have a clarify adjustment, which is a tonemapping adjustment similar to Topaz Adjust, but without as much control. This entry of mine used clarify:

Edited for phat phingers

Message edited by author 2010-12-02 23:15:45.

12/02/2010 11:19:07 PM · #17

Originally posted by mike_311:

The really nice thing about PS and LR is the non-destructive adjustments, does PSP have that ability?

No. X3 does have a new RAW lab which is a nondestructive RAW converter similar in nature to Adobe Camera RAW. But the main editor is not a nondestructive editor, unless you do everything on layers.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/02/2010 11:32:05 PM · #18

Well with all due respect Brennan I have to disagree. Most of the photos aren't tweaked to give you what you would have recd with shooting film would have given you. They don't look anything close to even the original live scene.

I also believe producing a awesome photo without the use of any editing tools is a definite display of someone who has mastered the use of their camera and a all around good shooting eye.

If i take a blah photo with my camera set on the basic settings, then use a software program to turn it into an amazing, colorful shot, have i mastered photography or the utility program? My opinion anyway.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

12/03/2010 12:34:43 AM · #19

Originally posted by JarHead:

They don't look anything close to even the original live scene.

There we agree, the voting here does tend to reward the highly processed, crisp bright and simple, that which can be judged in a thumbnail and a two second glance. But if you look at other sites such as x1 with a much more restrained aesthetic all of the images have been edited. In a much more restrained manner there than here, but edited none the less

If you shoot in RAW, with the best lens and the best CMOS you can get, and be sure not to clip the histogram, you end up with a hazy image due to how the light scatters across the pixels, no matter how masterful the photographer. It is simply the nature of the technology that it requires some editing to make the recoded image be able to represent accurately what the eye originally took in.