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11/27/2010 04:24:01 PM · #1
Why did you give 1,2 or 3 to ribbon winner pictures (not counting brown)

Seems like some of us either,

1-Know nothing about photography
2-Have low voting range (between 1 to 5 instead of 1 to 10)
3-Angry to something (receiving low votes for own entry, girlfriend (boyfriend) just dumped him (her) or some other reason))
4-You're a troll (You just vote low to have fun with others' anger)
5-You're blind (random vote)

Select a challenge that you give low vote to a ribbon, and explain why... If you have any guts to do so of course.
11/27/2010 04:27:37 PM · #2
Doubt you'll find the answer.

For what it's worth I've never given a 1, 2 or 3. Much like the SATs, there's a certain amount of points that are deserved for just putting in the effort.
11/27/2010 04:37:50 PM · #3
This entry came in at a 6.40, with a 5th place HM.
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I gave it a 4, which is what I give to something that shows some effort and knowledge, but is still lacking in a major way. I felt it was an easy shot of a building that had been done many times before, there wasn't any wow factor for me, and there was a ton of blocky JPEG compression.

11/27/2010 05:03:50 PM · #4
I wouldn't hold my breath for a answer to "why vote 1s". I think 1 is spiteful and given for so many reasons that have nothing to do with photography or even the photograph receiving it.
11/27/2010 05:06:52 PM · #5
Originally posted by tanguera:

I wouldn't hold my breath for a answer to "why vote 1s". I think 1 is spiteful and given for so many reasons that have nothing to do with photography or even the photograph receiving it.


So really we should have the voting scale from 2 thru 10? But then 2 would be spiteful - so I guess we could go to 3 thru 10... but then 3 would be spiteful...

I give out plenty of 1s, 2s and 3s.. The reason? Crap photos, DNMC, I recognise the style of the photographer and dont like them so vote them down... the list is endless.
11/27/2010 05:08:43 PM · #6
I have given out about 60 -1's before.

The reason why , I went to the number pad and typed in

10

not knowing you had to type in just 0

11/27/2010 05:41:32 PM · #7
I give out 10s to those who are going for the brown.

Oh and I'm studying Simms's style so I can recognize it when voting. ;|
11/27/2010 05:47:44 PM · #8
You forgot:

6. The voter simply doesn't like it.

I know, it's impossible for most people to understand.

Oh, and Simms, on the line of recognizing people's styles, I always vote ungulates in natural settings a 1, just in case ;)
11/27/2010 05:47:53 PM · #9
Originally posted by JulietNN:

I have given out about 60 -1's before.

The reason why , I went to the number pad and typed in

10

not knowing you had to type in just 0


This is alarming as I didn't know you are supposed to type in 0. But I don't see how it can be right, because my bar that shows what I've given people shows as 10.
Most recent example, 3rd place winner in Reflections...
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eta Oops - silly me. I don't vote by typing anything, I use the numbers. I just sometimes type a 10 in the comments box.

Message edited by author 2010-11-28 17:57:38.
11/27/2010 06:11:03 PM · #10
Well, couldn't find an actual challenge that I gave a 1,2,3 to that won a ribbon, but I am pretty sure I have done so on a couple of top 10 finishes before. It's always for the same reason, in my opinion it was a DNMC. The fact is, many voters here will give high marks for any good photo, but I am not one of them. If I don't see any way it is associated with the challenge, I will score a 1 and bump it up if I think it at least somehow reflects the challenge.

That doesn't happen very often, but it does happen.

Basically, I only ever give those low marks for a DNMC, or it was a really bad photo, and when I think it was a really bad photo (generally looks like a blurry snapshot) everyone else tends to agree so the photo doesn't do well anyway.

Message edited by author 2010-11-27 18:12:24.
11/27/2010 06:29:51 PM · #11
Originally posted by jomari:

Originally posted by JulietNN:

I have given out about 60 -1's before.

The reason why , I went to the number pad and typed in

10

not knowing you had to type in just 0


This is alarming as I didn't know you are supposed to type in 0. But I don't see how it can be right, because my bar that shows what I've given people shows as 10.
Most recent example, 3rd place winner in Reflections...
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Well that is how I figured it out in the end. I did the votes, then didn't go back and look at all for weeks. Then I did another voting and I went back after voting and noticed that I had given Lydia a 1. Then I asked and that was when I found out. I did send out tons of emails explaining what I had done. But that was like my first few months at DPC

Edited to add" I think Lydia (and her frog) was like 5 or 6th and her husband beat her by a a point or so. I felt horrendous.

Message edited by author 2010-11-27 18:30:59.
11/27/2010 07:05:42 PM · #12
Originally posted by JulietNN:



Edited to add" I think Lydia (and her frog) was like 5 or 6th and her husband beat her by a a point or so. I felt horrendous.


Juliet, you know I love you... but I am not married to anybody Too. It's NOT my last name (or anything close). It's just that there already was a Lydia here... so I'm Lydia, too. As in "also". :) My husband does not do photography. If he did, I'm POSITIVE that he'd be better than I am. He probably is too, so that's why he's refrained from picking up a camera. He's excellent at everything he does. *rolleyes in the kind way that folks in love for 25 years do*

And... I forgive you for the vote. Just give me all 10s from now on and we'll be fine. *grin*

Message edited by author 2010-11-27 19:05:58.
11/27/2010 07:12:26 PM · #13
Oh Lydia, maybe I am wrong in thinking it was you then. Not sure , but there was a flurry of emails sent and received when I told them what I had done. All was forgiven. Maybe I am thinking of you cos I saw you today on FB.

Dunno, but there ya go. That was my explanation as to why I gave out a bundle of 1's/
11/27/2010 07:16:16 PM · #14
Originally posted by Simms:


I give out plenty of 1s, 2s and 3s.. The reason? Crap photos, DNMC, I recognise the style of the photographer and dont like them so vote them down... the list is endless.

I like your photos and would wager we'd enjoy a beer together, but in this statement you come off as a douchebag. You seriously recognize a style and then vote it down?
11/27/2010 07:21:26 PM · #15
Originally posted by JulietNN:

Oh Lydia, maybe I am wrong in thinking it was you then. Not sure , but there was a flurry of emails sent and received when I told them what I had done. All was forgiven. Maybe I am thinking of you cos I saw you today on FB.

Dunno, but there ya go. That was my explanation as to why I gave out a bundle of 1's/


Well, just give me all 10s from now on... just to be safe, huh?
11/27/2010 07:22:25 PM · #16
1 > a technically (focus, exposure, balance, effects, lighting, sharpening, saturation, colour, cast, evidence of artifacts etc.) incompetent photo without hope for any sensible interpretation or an entirely unintelligible one (sometimes due to image size); one 'offensive' to civilized nature or (even) a technically apt photo which 'clearly' demonstrates a 'failure of feeling'
11/27/2010 08:45:34 PM · #17
Many moons ago, I explained myself why I would vote 1 to abused child photos. No exception. There are not many, but that was my explanation. So, if some of you don't like "bridges" for example... especially at night, which makes you puke if you see one (bridges at night could be nasty sometimes, with all that bright light and misty look), just say so.

If you come out and explain yourself, maybe it would help us to understand better and we all go "aaaahhh, that's what I didn't see on that blue ribbon winning photo. I should have vote low too"
11/27/2010 08:49:59 PM · #18
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

... if some of you don't like "bridges" for example... especially at night, which makes you puke if you see one (bridges at night could be nasty sometimes, with all that bright light and misty look), just say so...


I don't vote on subjects. I vote on photos.
11/27/2010 08:53:29 PM · #19
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by FocusPoint:

... if some of you don't like "bridges" for example... especially at night, which makes you puke if you see one (bridges at night could be nasty sometimes, with all that bright light and misty look), just say so...


I don't vote on subjects. I vote on photos.


I think that's one of the problems... some of us do. Not all, but photos somehow offend us. However, most ribbon winner photos are (or seem like) not offensive at all. That's why I asked an explanation.

1 and 2 to following image for example

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Message edited by author 2010-11-27 20:54:08.
11/27/2010 09:09:38 PM · #20
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

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A 3.5 on my scale, which would translate into a weak 4 in real terms:

3 > a photo of mixed or questionable merit, both artistically and technically; a technically 'acceptable' one without marked artistic or journalistic interest; a sentimental or symptomatically 'commercialized' image designed to 'sell' a product or (worse! -of a person) of reasonable or considerable technical merit; a potentially 'interesting' or 'promising' photo (subject matter/perspective) with 'severe' technical flaws and/or without 'clear' intent or direction; a technically flawless image void of emotion and lacking sensory stimuli

4 > a 'pretty' photo reminiscent of many; an otherwise captivating image with one or more clearly distracting elements, either within the capture itself or via border and/or title; a technically accomplished photo relying predominantly on an idea, subject and/or title for impact; an artistically 'promising' capture with clearly noticeable technical defects, compositional issues or incongruous aesthetics; a technically 'stunning' capture otherwise lacking in feeling, 'aesthetic 'sense' or compelling engagement
11/27/2010 09:12:39 PM · #21
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by FocusPoint:

... if some of you don't like "bridges" for example... especially at night, which makes you puke if you see one (bridges at night could be nasty sometimes, with all that bright light and misty look), just say so...


I don't vote on subjects. I vote on photos.


I think that's one of the problems... some of us do. Not all, but photos somehow offend us. However, most ribbon winner photos are (or seem like) not offensive at all. That's why I asked an explanation.

1 and 2 to following image for example

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All factors considered, if we total all of the votes under 5 the number represents 0.045 % which in the grand scheme of things is truly not worth getting all worked up over, it falls in the category of Minutiae.

As an aside, I did come across this little gem that I rather like: " Minutiae is the fact that we hardcore these days often have our nose pressed up so tight against the glass that we can't see out the window." :O)

Ray
11/27/2010 09:29:07 PM · #22
i think its other challenge participant voters who are afraid of the submission in the current challenge.

you can just take a look at the average score to see the participants average is always way lower the the non participants.
11/27/2010 11:05:11 PM · #23
Originally posted by mike_311:

i think its other challenge participant voters who are afraid of the submission in the current challenge.

you can just take a look at the average score to see the participants average is always way lower the the non participants.


I would agree most of the time the participants average are lower than non-participants. However, once in a while, participants avg is surprisingly higher than non-participants.
My Off-Centered Subject entry:
Place: 70 out of 151
Avg (all users): 5.6182
Avg (commenters): 7.2500
Avg (participants): 5.7083
Avg (non-participants): 5.5484

Who wouldda thunk it...haha.

Back on topic: voters give 1's, 2's, 3's, 4's... it is what it is. Who cares.
11/27/2010 11:26:23 PM · #24
I don't think I've handed out any 1s . . . I have given a few 2s and a few more 3s. I think I remember commenting on those, though. Usually a photo starts with a 5 if it meets the challenge and the score increases with it's increased "wow" factor - be it impression on me, my emotional response, technical aspect of the photo, etc. If the picture meets the challenge, but there is little or no pop, or "wow" the score stays at 5. If the photo DNMC but is a quality picture, I will give it a 4 and comment accordingly. If the picture just looks like the shutter tripped as the camera was dropped, I will give it less than 4.
I find it very difficult to appropriately comment on photos that I give a 5 or a 6 for . . . If I score it 7 and up or 4 and lower, honest comments are easy.
Oh, and it took me a while to not score in a comparative fashion, either. I think I finally have that licked -

I don't know if that is the right way to score, but it helps me be consistent.
11/27/2010 11:42:00 PM · #25
Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Why did you give 1,2 or 3 to ribbon winner pictures


Leo, your fixation with low votes is beginning to seem a little deranged. Conspiracy theory stuff. Let me refer to an exchange of PM's that you and I recently had.

In summary:
- You commented post challenge on a ribbon winning picture, saying that voters who gave it a 1,2 or 3 were 'losers, bull crappers and clowns', and offered to debate the matter with any of them who would identify themselves.

- I PM'd you to say that I gave the image a 3 and said that I'd be happy to publicly explain why and debate it with you, if you first got the permission of the photographer.

- You responded that my voting average of 4 point something put me in troll territory. You said that it was not the 'norm' to vote that way, and that there was a 'norm' that should be followed by all voters. All good photographs should be scored high by all voters.

- I pointed out that the apparent definition of a troll (from the forums) appears to be either (a) anyone who votes low on a highly popular image, or (b) anyone who votes low at all, but especially (c) anyone who votes low on your own entry. I also pointed out the totalitarian implications of your 'norm' voting theory.

- You then told me that DPC is a learning site and that members should be encouraged with high scores, rather than dispirited by low scores, and also that I should be the one to seek the photographer's permission to debate the merits his ribbon-winning photograph.

Why give low scores?
There are many reasons why people vote low on certain images. All of them are valid, even if some are apparently irrational. I very often find that I have given ribbon winning images low scores, so I will give you my usual reasons for doing so, even though I feel pretty sure it will make no difference at all to your own position. However, someone else might read it and reflect.

My own voting system
I give any photograph that is hackneyed, derivative, bromidic, cloying or cheesy a 3. Alas that applies to about three quarters of ribbon winners. Technical merit does not even enter into my deliberations at this point.

I give any photograph that is moderately interesting a 5. Technical merit and degree of difficulty are still largely irrelevant, although in some cases the way in which a photograph has been executed can contribute to its interest, but only as a secondary consideration.

I give all photographs that are original, stimulating, imaginative and unexpected a 7. Technical merit matters only to the extent that it contributes to the excitement.

Then I look at all my 7s (about a dozen, in most challenges) several times more, generally on another day or days, looking for what I think are the truly durable images. I'll usually make one a 10, one a 9, and perhaps a couple of 8s. Then I make some comments to explain my preferences.

I always vote on every image when I vote at all. I always vote on those challenges I have entered. I don't compare any entry with my own, nor indeed with any other entry. I don't have any real interest in my own score.

One example explained
I don't explain my low votes with comments any more because it's pointless. The recipient almost invariably doesn't want to understand, only to argue. But as you have insisted in this forum, here is one example:

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Had I voted on this challenge I would have given that image a 3. It is a technically decent photograph, largely due to a very good lens and the photographer's sympathetic processing, but that is to me of no consequence at all, because the image fell at the first hurdle: it is not at all convincing as a slice of real life (and that is the photographer's clear intention here, to offer this photograph as a real-life image ... it's not being offered as a still life or a studio portrait). The image is a cliché, both compositionally and conceptually, and the total effect is nothing less than mawkish. Thus the competence of the photographer and his equipment is irrelevant to my evaluation of it.

Thank you and good night
I have little interest in photography as a craft. I enjoy photographs, but I find photography itself boring. I enjoy writing too, but I am not much interested in the techniques of typing. For me a camera is just a tool, a useful instrument for assaying the imagination. And so I vote accordingly.

Edit to Add (in case any reader is moved to check) I would rate all of my own top five scoring images as a 3.

Message edited by author 2010-11-27 23:59:22.
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