DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Monuments disqualification
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 25, (reverse)
AuthorThread
10/18/2010 10:33:49 AM · #1
I was so happy to have finished 5th - would've been my best finish yet - in the Monuments challenge.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=912881

Unfortunately woke up to a disqualification email from the Site Council:
"You must retain your original, unedited file (exactly as recorded by your camera), and provide it to the Site Council along with a list of your editing steps within 48 hours of any validation request. Files that have been saved or altered with any editing or transfer software are NOT originals."

I provided the original raw file I had (Photoshop saves all the changes I made to it in a ghost file and leaves the original raw file untouched). However, I did the "windows import" from the flash card into the hard drive :( I cannot bring myself to believe that that would disqualify the file from being original - can anyone (preferably site council member) please elaborate on this? So should I leave the original raw file as-is on the flash card for 2+ weeks? Is windows import option not equivalent to copy the file and rename? At a loss here - any explanation would be greatly appreciated here.

Unfortunately, this is my standard workflow - which means all my entries so far (2 of them post-monuments challenge and 1 of them doing very very well indeed) will be disqualified for a reason not very clear to me. Very very disappointed :(
10/18/2010 10:40:06 AM · #2
Sounds like the windows import added some metadata that indicated it had handled the image. I always copy my files by putting the CF card into a card reader and copying them using the computer's file manager. By doing it this way, I am certain no other imaging software has handled the image and added anything. I've had a number of images validated now and no problems. I'm kind of surprised that your RAW file would be affected this way. That sucks, but rules is rules.
10/18/2010 10:42:37 AM · #3
I don't know how "windows import" works; I've never done this, or I've never heard it called by that name, but here's what I do:

On the desktop, I have a file folder for downloading images. Each time I download a new shoot, I create an appropriately-named subfolder in that main folder, and open that subfolder.

Using a card reader mounted in a USB port, I open the card as an external drive, navigate on the card to the folder with the images, select all, right click, drag them physically to the host folder on my desktop, and select "copy here".

Once they've copied, I verify that they are intact, then reformat the card in my camera to empty it.

R.
10/18/2010 10:47:26 AM · #4
Ohhhhhhhh. . . I'm so sorry! So many of us who have been here a long time can truly feel your pain!
10/18/2010 10:49:12 AM · #5
The idea's the same. I just let windows do the work of naming the directory and tagging all the files with the tag names so that it'll be easier to do the searches later on. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that that would be a culprit :( Have always been doing it this way and always thought of it as a 'copy-rename' by windows - nothing else :( What sucks even more is that my Bridges entry is doing darned well too - my PB and possibly in the top 6. Maybe I should tell SC to disqualify all my entries - wait around for 6 months and start afresh :(
10/18/2010 10:55:18 AM · #6
Originally posted by Chandi:

The idea's the same. I just let windows do the work of naming the directory and tagging all the files with the tag names so that it'll be easier to do the searches later on. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that that would be a culprit :( Have always been doing it this way and always thought of it as a 'copy-rename' by windows - nothing else :( What sucks even more is that my Bridges entry is doing darned well too - my PB and possibly in the top 6. Maybe I should tell SC to disqualify all my entries - wait around for 6 months and start afresh :(


No, they'll treat all of this as a single infraction, for "punishment" purposes. That's equitable. That's the way I understand it, anyway.

R.
10/18/2010 10:57:46 AM · #7
You really do need to get clarification as to why you were DQ'd. There is no way that any file transfer operation should invalidate a RAW original. If the DQ notification reads "You must retain your unedited original..." and your original was a RAW file, then some potential reasons for the DQ are:
- Your submitted RAW file did not match the shot (wrong original submitted)
- Your RAW file was not uploaded properly, so no valid original was submitted
In either of these cases, SC normally contacts you to resolve the issue. It's unfortunate that often the "canned" message is all you receive with the DQ notification. Some clarification as to the specific reason would often be valuable, and this is one of those cases. The SC is normally very responsive when asked to clarify, and in your position I would definitely ask.
10/18/2010 10:59:55 AM · #8
This is exactly why I drag and drop!! Sorry to hear but at least you didn't ribbon and have to give it up!
10/18/2010 11:01:59 AM · #9
How do I contact the Site Council?
The standard issue disqualification email I got is from "admin at dpchallenge . com" - just reply to that?

Pointers appreciated. Searching the forums now, but am hitting a lot of similar threads without any pointers on how to actually contact them. Thanks.
10/18/2010 11:05:26 AM · #10
Found the page - shooting off an inquiry - hopefull they'll elaborate and I'll post any response I receive from them.
//www.dpchallenge.com/help_contact.php
10/18/2010 11:08:15 AM · #11
Really sorry about the DQ. I too thought that RAW files were always left untouched and would always pass validation. I use the Photoshop Elements Organizer to download the RAW file from my camera. It creates a dated sub-folder and places them there. I do keep the camera file names though. Usually I tag the original RAW file as "DPC Original". I've never had a problem with validation using this process.

I've done a trial with jpegs using this same process and submitted a ticket to SC as a check. The jpegs fail to pass validation, as the Elements Organizer adds a tag to the metadata.

I think that I too would have to ask the SC for more details on this DQ.

Message edited by author 2010-10-18 11:35:40.
10/18/2010 11:47:31 AM · #12
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Chandi, can you recover the files from your CF card? I take it you've done a "move" on import? I know if files have been deleted on your CF card they can sometimes be recovered with various software tools...don't know if it works the same way with moved files or not. Just a thought.
10/18/2010 11:50:55 AM · #13
I also want to understand this. I thought that RAW files were never touched, and I've seen the same things said in other threads -- I thought by the site council themselves, as well...

Please clarify, SC! Thanks!
10/18/2010 11:55:22 AM · #14
unless i'm mistaken, it sounds like you were using the windows camera import utility, which renames the files as it imports them into a set (i.e. it asks what to name the set, "Chalk" and names them chalk 001, chalk 002 etc). i'm guessing that once the file is renamed by the utility it is no longer an original unedited file...
10/18/2010 11:58:02 AM · #15
From Administrator Announcements / 'Transfer Software Guidelines' -

"If you shoot in RAW:
Transfer software does not affect the original image data of a RAW file. Therefore, RAW files moved by transfer software are valid originals. Note that you must submit a RAW proof file when requested. A JPEG saved from the original RAW is not sufficient."
10/18/2010 11:58:33 AM · #16
Unfortunately, I've since used the CF card for other shoots, so I couldn't retrieve the files :(

Here's the response from the Site Council (most interesting):
"Hi Chandra,

The entry was disqualified because the original file you uploaded did not have standard EXIF information that exists on digital images. We require that you submit the original unaltered file, straight from the camera.

Sometimes the file becomes "corrupt" (so to speak) depending on how you transfered it from your camera to your computer. Your best bet to avoid corruption is to use a card reader and pull the files off directly.

Hope this makes sense,
Langdon
"

Unfortunately, for me this doesn't make sense because:
"hi Langdon,

Thanks so much for the quick response. I just took a sample shot with my camera (Sony A700), and on the flash card itself, looked for EXIF on the raw file - it doesn't show anything. However, the jpeg it shot along with that has the EXIF embedded. Is it possible that RAW files don't show EXIF the usual way? I know that once I work on the raw file in photoshop and save it as a jpeg it has an EXIF associated with it. So I'm sure the raw file has the data - you're probably not getting it the right way? Do Sony cameras have different raw file structure compared to other cameras? (I wouldn't know - I always used Sony). Any further info you can throw my way would help greatly. As things stand, even if I copied the files from the flash card directly, the RAW file doesn't show the EXIF. That can't be right can it?

Incidentally, if that's all that disqualified the image, I have the original jpeg as well for that same submission in the challenge. I didn't use it (used raw for processing), which is why I submitted the raw file - if submitting the jpeg file with the EXIF intact will get around it, I have no problem doing that - please do let me know and I can submit that jpeg right now.

Regards,
Chandra
"
10/18/2010 12:03:03 PM · #17
If your import process modified the RAW file, it most likely modified the JPG too - yes?
10/18/2010 12:03:40 PM · #18
Apologies for that bold font - make things really hard to read. I always have the camera set to record both RAW and JPEG files. I don't usually use the JPEG files at all unless I have to upload the pictures right after the event. In this case, I have both the .ARW and .JPG files from the flash card. Unfortunately, the jpeg files were imported too, but otherwise untouched. Not sure what Langdon meant my not having the standard EXIF information in the raw file though.
10/18/2010 12:08:29 PM · #19
My only guess is that in your import process there's a box checked to delete information as recorded in camera. Just a guess though.
10/18/2010 12:14:58 PM · #20
Originally posted by bohemka:

My only guess is that in your import process there's a box checked to delete information as recorded in camera. Just a guess though.


Doubt it - I can read EXIF off the jpeg fine. The raw file doesn't show me any EXIF even when on the flash card. I just retried the windows import utility - no option as such - just a tag as an input.
10/18/2010 12:16:07 PM · #21
Originally posted by glad2badad:

If your import process modified the RAW file, it most likely modified the JPG too - yes?


Yes, unfortunately :(
10/18/2010 02:03:19 PM · #22
All is well that ends well.

Chandra,

Thank you for pursuing this. It turns out that the problem was on our end! The software we use for reading EXIF was outdated and needed to be updated to read the ARW format correctly. I updated the software and don't see any issues with your original file now.

I've reversed the disqualification. My apologies for the hassle.

Take care,
Langdon


The image is back in it's spot, and I can breathe easy knowing that my work flow itself isn't the culprit and that my further entries will stand.
Best possible outcome of the scenario.
Many thanks to Langdon and the Site Council for pursuing this and fixing the niggle at their end.
Many thanks to all who responded to this thread and more so to people who urged me to contact the Site Council - I might not have done it myself without those prods.
10/18/2010 02:08:34 PM · #23
It's entirely possible that Windows may have messed with the metadata in such a way that it's not in the expected position, or contains information that software trying to interpret it does not expect. Here's what to try:
1.) Open the RAW file and save a JPEG from it.
2.) Look at the JPEG; do you see all the EXIF data that you expect to see?
If the answer to (2) is no, then there is trouble; the metadata in the RAW file has been somehow destroyed or altered. In this case that particular RAW file is not going to cut it as an original. Since you shot RAW+JPEG, you might try submitting the JPEG. Both the RAW and JPEG files should be considered originals, since they were written by the camera at the same time.

ETA: Ignore me, looks like you got the best possible outcome; no problem on your end!

Message edited by author 2010-10-18 14:09:25.
10/18/2010 02:08:44 PM · #24
wheee!! Congrats!!
10/18/2010 02:10:52 PM · #25
Awesome!

R.
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 01/20/2021 09:24:28 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2021 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Proudly hosted by Sargasso Networks. Current Server Time: 01/20/2021 09:24:28 AM EST.