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08/09/2010 08:48:06 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
It should be verboten to say that being gay (period) even on average, may shorten your life. Instead, you could word it as "Having some forms of homosexual encounters may, on average, shorten your life should you contact HIV" would be accurate. Simply saying "being gay" would be like saying "being black, on average, shortens your life span." while trying to convince someone that more blacks get shot on average than whites, or some dumb thing.
Seriously, cut the crap :) |
You aren't very good at statistics, are you? :) Of course HIV is one of the distinguishing factors that shortens the life expectancy (although it may not be the only one, or it may even be in competition with factors that lengthen lifespan). It's probably only part of the equation. Of course we don't suspect that the genetic/environmental factor that causes one to be gay is not, in itself, also the factor that increases your risk of getting HIV, but there is obviously some characteristic (being behavioral or even an associated genetic predisposition) associated with being gay and getting HIV. Bottom line: You are 44 times more likely to contract HIV if you are gay than if you are not. (quote from the CDC).
BTW, being black does mean you have a shorter life expectancy in this country. I don't know how much/little homicide has to do with it, but it's true. |
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08/09/2010 08:50:11 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Ray, it really is different in the gay world. I know people that have been in a 20 year partnerships and couples that have been married, that do not consider having a threesome cheating. It is the norm. It is really a completely different culture. |
That happens a-plenty in the Heterosexual world too, surprise surprise. Yes, the culture is a little different sometimes, but it's mostly because of the relative condensing of the population. There isn't a huge choice on the menu, if you know what I mean. However, for every swinging gay couple, there's a completely committed monogamous couple that you don't generally hear about because, well, monogamy doesn't make for a good story. As for that culture difference, it's changing at an amazing rate, the closer and closer homosexuality gets to becoming another part of the mainstream. |
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08/09/2010 08:50:28 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
...Actually it does make perfect sense. People in a committed relationship, who take their vows seriously are not apt to engage in sexual activities with anyone other than their spouse, with the ensuing results being that you have eradicated the possibility of aids being transmitted.
Make sense now?
Ray |
I don't see how you tie in the committed relationship. Are you saying gays can't have a committed relationship? What does some government sanctioned "Vow" have to do with monogamy? |
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08/09/2010 08:50:36 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by odriew:
How do you even know the number of gay men in America? Since a lot are discreet about their sexuality, I doubt the accuracy of those statistics... Though I don't dispute the fact that incidences of HIV/AIDS is higher amongst the homosexual population, I think 1-in-9 might be an exaggeration. |
I was using statistics from the CDC. They quote 4% of males over 13 years which is probably well within the range of commonly quoted numbers. You are right that these numbers are difficult to pinpoint, but it isn't likely far off and it certainly isn't going to suddenly look like the non-gay population. 1:9 and 1:568 is a huge gap. Also the bias would only make the real number worse. There are likely more people with HIV that deny being gay to a survey that really are than say they are gay and really aren't.
Message edited by author 2010-08-09 20:52:20. |
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08/09/2010 08:52:22 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
It should be verboten to say that being gay (period) even on average, may shorten your life. Instead, you could word it as "Having some forms of homosexual encounters may, on average, shorten your life should you contact HIV" would be accurate. Simply saying "being gay" would be like saying "being black, on average, shortens your life span." while trying to convince someone that more blacks get shot on average than whites, or some dumb thing.
Seriously, cut the crap :) |
You aren't very good at statistics, are you? :) Of course HIV is one of the distinguishing factors that shortens the life expectancy (although it may not be the only one, or it may even be in competition with factors that lengthen lifespan). It's probably only part of the equation. Of course we don't suspect that the genetic/environmental factor that causes one to be gay is not, in itself, also the factor that increases your risk of getting HIV, but there is obviously some characteristic (being behavioral or even an associated genetic predisposition) associated with being gay and getting HIV. Bottom line: You are 44 times more likely to contract HIV if you are gay than if you are not. (quote from the CDC).
BTW, being black does mean you have a shorter life expectancy in this country. I don't know how much/little homicide has to do with it, but it's true. |
You're missing the point for your hyper-intelligence :P Having sex is not being gay. Being attracted to someone of the same gender, is. Being attracted to someone, alone, will not shorten your life. PERIOD. lol. Aight? Heck, I know gay couples that have gone through most of their life never doing anything more than mutual masturbation. Call the news media, everyone that masturbates has a shorter life span now, because those damn gays masturbate.
*ETA* Oh, and, I know enough about statistics to know never to put much stock in them at all.
Message edited by author 2010-08-09 20:55:14. |
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08/09/2010 08:55:02 PM · #56 |
anyone ever see the movie "And the band played on"..... ???
IMDB linky
amazing - fantastic - heartbreaking - and an incredible peak at what one person's take was on the French vs. American doctors when it was first discovered. |
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08/09/2010 08:56:12 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
You're missing the point for your hyper-intelligence :P Having sex is not being gay. Being attracted to someone of the same gender, is. Being attracted to someone, alone, will not shorten your life. PERIOD. lol. Aight? Heck, I know gay couples that have gone through most of their life never doing anything more than mutual masturbation. Call the news media, everyone that masturbates has a shorter life span now, because those damn gays masturbate. |
Oh, well, of course. I said a lot of that in the comment above. We are categorizing. BUT, the stats are so skewed that it is unlikely that only a small % of gays are exhibiting the requisite behavior to sway the entire population. |
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08/09/2010 08:56:46 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
...Actually it does make perfect sense. People in a committed relationship, who take their vows seriously are not apt to engage in sexual activities with anyone other than their spouse, with the ensuing results being that you have eradicated the possibility of aids being transmitted.
Make sense now?
Ray |
I don't see how you tie in the committed relationship. Are you saying gays can't have a committed relationship? What does some government sanctioned "Vow" have to do with monogamy? |
Just the opposite my friend... I do believe quite strongly that gays can and do have a committed relationship... and no, a government sanctioned vow truly is not a guarantee of monogamy, witness all the extra marital affairs that good, decent and God fearing Christians engage in on a regular basis.
Ray |
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08/09/2010 09:00:30 PM · #59 |
You should inform scalvert, he made the statement, not me.
Originally posted by scalvert:
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It shouldn't surprise anyone that rate of STDs (and related deaths) will be higher among individuals for whom marriage is not an option. Society effectively discourages committed, monogamous relationships, so what would you expect? ....
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08/09/2010 09:11:28 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Ray, it really is different in the gay world. I know people that have been in a 20 year partnerships and couples that have been married, that do not consider having a threesome cheating. It is the norm. It is really a completely different culture. |
So all gays are threesome crazy? You're categorizing gays just like the Catholic church does. Being gay is not a culture. |
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08/09/2010 09:14:34 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Ray, it really is different in the gay world. I know people that have been in a 20 year partnerships and couples that have been married, that do not consider having a threesome cheating. It is the norm. It is really a completely different culture. |
So all gays are threesome crazy? You're categorizing gays just like the Catholic church does. Being gay is not a culture. |
No (like my and Sneezy's fight about categorizing) simply being gay is not. However, there are gay cultures. I hear they make quite a good yogurt.
Message edited by author 2010-08-09 21:15:13. |
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08/09/2010 09:15:52 PM · #62 |
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08/09/2010 09:17:04 PM · #63 |
| We did not find results for: DrAchooHatesFags.com. Try the suggestions below or type a new query above |
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08/09/2010 09:21:04 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by Louis:
DrAchooHatesFags.com |
Is this called for? I've been doing nothing but explaining stats from the CDC. |
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08/09/2010 09:24:07 PM · #65 |
| I meant no disrespect Doc. |
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08/09/2010 09:24:31 PM · #66 |
| Yeah, I think it's called for. Guess how fuckin sick of this kind shit I might be? |
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08/09/2010 09:25:58 PM · #67 |
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08/09/2010 09:30:22 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Ray, it really is different in the gay world. I know people that have been in a 20 year partnerships and couples that have been married, that do not consider having a threesome cheating. It is the norm. It is really a completely different culture. |
So all gays are threesome crazy? You're categorizing gays just like the Catholic church does. Being gay is not a culture. |
You are so so so wrong, it is a culture and it's own definite one. I do now some gay couples that have stayed in the relationship within each other. But that is less common that you think. Especially in the younger generation. Can you say Jac, that some of your best friends are 18-27 and gay as 9/10th of my friends are. Do you live in there world? do you go out with them, do you have them live at your house, are you involved in LGBT organization as I am?
It really is a insular world that they live in when you break it down, it doesn't have to be and we all wish it was mainstream. You just have to look at legal gay marriage to see that the world is not as main stream as you think it is.
Can you see a thread about straight people dying earlier. Straight people being refused marriage etc. No
Message edited by author 2010-08-09 21:32:15. |
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08/09/2010 09:36:34 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Yeah, I think it's called for. Guess how fuckin sick of this kind shit I might be? |
Take a deep breath and drink a cosmo or something Louis.
The OP posted a study. He questioned whether it could possibly be true or whether it was the crazy religious people were making things up. At that point you know me well enough that I would feel compelled to defend my faith (versus attacking anything). Having a medical and statistical background I then proceed to explain how the CDC shows that being gay increases your risk of HIV by 40x and that this certainly could represent a reason why the original article might reflect the truth (especially given it was back in 1997 when fatality rates were probably higher).
How that attacks you or anybody else, I dunno. You were the first to get personal. There was a time when I thought we were friends, but I came to the realization that you have little or no respect for me. Being that friendships are built on some sort of mutual respect, I concluded I was mistaken. |
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08/09/2010 09:47:41 PM · #70 |
For gawdsake, I'm SURE you can find figures that "prove" the actuarial life expectancy of gay men is less than that of heterosexual men. Doc went to a bit of trouble to show why this might be true, did some quick research and all. Directly responsive to the OP. Grinding no axe that I can see.
Didn't support the conclusions of the authors in question, either. Seems perfectly willing to accept that flawed conclusions are being drawn.
So where's all this animosity coming from? Good grief!
R.
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08/09/2010 09:59:08 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
For gawdsake, I'm SURE you can find figures that "prove" the actuarial life expectancy of gay men is less than that of heterosexual men. Doc went to a bit of trouble to show why this might be true, did some quick research and all. Directly responsive to the OP. Grinding no axe that I can see.
Didn't support the conclusions of the authors in question, either. Seems perfectly willing to accept that flawed conclusions are being drawn.
So where's all this animosity coming from? Good grief!
R. |
I'll give you one quick example of where it could possibly be coming from.
Here in Canada, if you admit on the form that you have had, or are having, sex with another man, and you're male, you are absolutely forbidden to donate blood. This is even when there are massive screenings on ALL BLOOD that is donated. This is even if the sex you had was years and years prior. I'm afraid that this is based on such stats as the CDC that show that homosexual men tend to have higher rates of HIV infection. It is an archaic and ridiculous FEAR that is being justified by statistics, denying perfectly healthy people to donate to the blood pool, even during times when blood banks are screaming for more people to donate.
If that isn't something that should raise the blood pressure (almost punny), I don't know what is.
But guess what? All you have to do to circumvent this is lie on the form. There's no other testing, there's no way to prove who you're having sex with, if at all, and there's no way to know, even if your blood does end up being HIV+, HOW you became infected. Basically, it's a bullshit excuse to exclude a portion of the general population for no other reason than pure, unadulterated fear.
So you can see why some of us think that people can take those stats and shove them where not every gay man goes, because the world is full of idiots who can't, or won't, think for themselves and will use ANY REASON AT ALL to justify their fears and prejudices.
*ETA* I must qualify that I don't actually know if it's all of Canada, but it's certainly true where I am.
Message edited by author 2010-08-09 22:02:21. |
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08/09/2010 10:07:15 PM · #72 |
| I can not donate blood cos I have been in England. Mad cow disease. Ludicrous on all accounts |
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08/09/2010 10:10:13 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
So where's all this animosity coming from? Good grief! |
I'm going to assume you hit your head and forgot all about Jason's long crusade against gays in these forums.
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08/09/2010 10:23:09 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Louis:
Yeah, I think it's called for. Guess how fuckin sick of this kind shit I might be? |
Take a deep breath and drink a cosmo or something Louis.
The OP posted a study. He questioned whether it could possibly be true or whether it was the crazy religious people were making things up. At that point you know me well enough that I would feel compelled to defend my faith (versus attacking anything). Having a medical and statistical background I then proceed to explain how the CDC shows that being gay increases your risk of HIV by 40x and that this certainly could represent a reason why the original article might reflect the truth (especially given it was back in 1997 when fatality rates were probably higher).
How that attacks you or anybody else, I dunno. You were the first to get personal. There was a time when I thought we were friends, but I came to the realization that you have little or no respect for me. Being that friendships are built on some sort of mutual respect, I concluded I was mistaken. |
Why does it seem to me that Lionel Richie should be playing in the background every time you post, waxing poetic as you do about the days of yore? I'm not getting personal. YOU are, by invoking pathos, and insisting on continually dredging up past conversations that have nothing to do with the issues at hand.
Everyone here is acting according to his well-know trope. Yanko with the incising one-liner, David Ey with the grammatically incoherent sidewinders, Bear_Music with his baffling and persistent defence of everything you say, Louis with his salty displaced outrage, scalvert with the pointed and pointy reason, K10DGuy working the lines with his pale watchfulness, and you, good Doctor, with the need to defend the indefensible finer points of your most prejudiced faith.
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08/09/2010 10:39:37 PM · #75 |
| Has this entered Rant ye? |
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