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07/08/2002 03:35:39 PM · #1
My transparency submission received 7 "ones" 17 "twos" and 29 "threes" ... and I would really like to know WHY???? a score of 1 or 2 would mean to me that it didnt meet the challenge .. and mine most certainly did ...
I used 3 bottles and primary colors .. and when you look through the yellow bottle you see the blue and red colors reversed in position due to how it looks through the bottle and slightly altered in color (showing the object as semi-transparent) ...

I think if someone issues any vote of a 3, 2 or 1 ... they should HAVE to make some type of comment ... what does everyone else think??
07/08/2002 03:43:11 PM · #2
Originally posted by PhotosByAyme:
My transparency submission received 7 "ones" 17 "twos" and 29 "threes" ... and I would really like to know WHY???? a score of 1 or 2 would mean to me that it didnt meet the challenge .. and mine most certainly did ...
I used 3 bottles and primary colors .. and when you look through the yellow bottle you see the blue and red colors reversed in position due to how it looks through the bottle and slightly altered in color (showing the object as semi-transparent) ...

I think if someone issues any vote of a 3, 2 or 1 ... they should HAVE to make some type of comment ... what does everyone else think??


Ayme,

I liked this image and I gave it an 8. I thought it was a very well executed photo and I liked the colors quite a bit as well. I think it's definitely been underrated, IMHO.


07/08/2002 03:44:52 PM · #3
i totally agree that it is very frustrating. i would like to know the same for my photo - why did some people rate it so low while others rated it really high. reality is, those people rarely comment. if you make comments mandatory, it'll be a space, or period or something along those lines. basically, you can't force people to do so.
07/08/2002 03:45:29 PM · #4
I agree. I received 10 ones and 10 twos for my transparency pic and no negative comments. Well, there was the one, "homoerotic, no thanks" comment, but I figure that's his hang up, not mine...LOL.

Okay, you didn't like it, but WHY? That's where the learning comes from, IMO.
07/08/2002 03:51:57 PM · #5
I agree that anything with a 3 or lower should have an explanation - or not be counted, especially when the majority of the votes are 4 and above. 3 or lower to me = not met the challenge or very very bad technically.
This is what first place, john's photo received:
1 7
2 1
3 4
4 3
5 4
6 13
7 23
8 54
9 58
10 83
Personally, I don't see how there could've been anything less than a 4 - even if you don't agree with the symbolism/patriotism - the image, quality and relavance to the challenge in a way demand to be at the extremely least a 4 -but believe me, this is a top notch photo - I'm just pointing out that with those three items met, how could there be votes so low? ---Then again, one could argue that this is an open voting and pretty much anything goes---maybe there are those that vote 9 and 10s for photos that do not meet the challenge and are technically very bad - there's no real way to tell-at least I don't think there is. Unless all voting is public knowledge.

PHOTOSBYAYME - your's should've done much better.
07/08/2002 03:51:57 PM · #6
John's photo also recieved 7 1's, so you are in good company.

Amy,

Your's was one of my favorites, and one I thought was under appreciated this week.

Good luck on getting any comments from the low bidders.
07/08/2002 03:57:49 PM · #7
Originally posted by RedRuthann:
I agree that anything with a 3 or lower should have an explanation - or not be counted, especially when the majority of the votes are 4 and above. 3 or lower to me = not met the challenge or very very bad technically.
This is what first place, john's photo received:
1 7
2 1
3 4
4 3
5 4
6 13
7 23
8 54
9 58
10 83
Personally, I don't see how there could've been anything less than a 4 - even if you don't agree with the symbolism/patriotism - the image, quality and relavance to the challenge in a way demand to be at the extremely least a 4 -but believe me, this is a top notch photo - I'm just pointing out that with those three items met, how could there be votes so low? ---Then again, one could argue that this is an open voting and pretty much anything goes---maybe there are those that vote 9 and 10s for photos that do not meet the challenge and are technically very bad - there's no real way to tell-at least I don't think there is. Unless all voting is public knowledge.

PHOTOSBYAYME - your's should've done much better.


I think the low scores on my photo last week came for a few reasons... 1- the idea is not original. 2- there are a group of people who despise flag and other patriotic photos. 3- there are a group of international voters who did not find it appealing.

I don't worry about the low votes unless they are a majority of the votes.


07/08/2002 04:01:08 PM · #8
thanks to those who did vote on my photo and made comments - i know who you are - well on here at least :) - and it's all good ... and i appreciate it - and all the feedback - it's the only way I can learn

those quiet voters are the ones i'm trying to get :)

John ... at first i thought your image was photoshopped ... but then saw it somewhere else and understood how it was done - it was my highest score in my votes :) - good job
07/08/2002 04:04:28 PM · #9
Easy to say with two wins buddy.:) Unfortunately, for those that do not get a lot of 9's and 10's, 1's make a big impact, but that is all part of the game

I really think 1 should be justified, but that would really be hard to administrate. Most would probably just write "sucks" if forced to leave a comment.
07/08/2002 04:04:48 PM · #10
Drew has a "how'd they do that" article for my photo and he will post it here as time permits...

It's really not hard to do. I have another photo that I should have probalby used for this challenge HERE.
07/08/2002 04:10:34 PM · #11
i wouldnt mind even hearing that it sucked ... something is better than nothing ... cause then once the voting is over - you can then go back to that person and ask more questions :)
07/08/2002 04:12:29 PM · #12
Originally posted by Zeissman:
Easy to say with two wins buddy.:) Unfortunately, for those that do not get a lot of 9's and 10's, 1's make a big impact, but that is all part of the game

I really think 1 should be justified, but that would really be hard to administrate. Most would probably just write "sucks" if forced to leave a comment.



I would not want to hear a comment that the voter didn't want to leave... it would be meaningless..

07/08/2002 04:14:11 PM · #13
Originally posted by Zeissman:
Easy to say with two wins buddy.:) Unfortunately, for those that do not get a lot of 9's and 10's, 1's make a big impact, but that is all part of the game

I really think 1 should be justified, but that would really be hard to administrate. Most would probably just write "sucks" if forced to leave a comment.



If you take a look at the lowest scoring photos in the challenge, you will see that the curve goes the other way... there are sparse high votes and tons of low votes... it makes perfect sense...

any give image, no matter how good or how bad it is, will not please or repulse everyone...

07/08/2002 04:35:45 PM · #14
Maybe in addition to showing the average votes given, We could talk Drew into listing how many 1's have been sent, 2's, 3's so on. keeping it Anonymous, but clearly holding the voter accountable for lower voting.
07/08/2002 04:42:12 PM · #15
Why must we hold a voter accountable for the vote they cast? This is too much like 'big brother is watching you'. Are we gonna hold voters who give 10s to the last place photos accountable too?
07/08/2002 04:50:22 PM · #16
all i want is a reason why they thought it was to be scored as a one ... that's disturbing to me ... and i was hoping by posting here - i'd get some feedback ... that's all :)

It's like getting graded in school and the reason behind it ...
I thought this was one of my better submissions and it turned out almost one of my worst ...

ehh - ya live and learn ... but ya cant learn without comments :)
07/08/2002 04:53:03 PM · #17
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Why must we hold a voter accountable for the vote they cast? This is too much like 'big brother is watching you'. Are we gonna hold voters who give 10s to the last place photos accountable too?


Since this is a learning site, the purpose of holding low voters accountable is to find out WHY they feel your photo is "very bad". Is there something that could be improved technically? Artistically? Or does it just plain suck? lol I don't think anyone has a gun them down for voting low mentality, it's just a desire to know what could have made the photo better in the voter's eyes.
07/08/2002 05:04:53 PM · #18
Originally posted by PhotosByAyme:
all i want is a reason why they thought it was to be scored as a one ... that's disturbing to me ... and i was hoping by posting here - i'd get some feedback ... that's all :)

It's like getting graded in school and the reason behind it ...
I thought this was one of my better submissions and it turned out almost one of my worst ...

ehh - ya live and learn ... but ya cant learn without comments :)



I agree that the comments are helpful in the learning process. The point I'm trying to make is that if you force a comment out of someone, do you REALLY think you will get a useful comment?

I, personally, don't want a comment that the voter doesn't want to offer...

07/08/2002 05:16:33 PM · #19
Originally posted by PhotosByAyme:
all i want is a reason why they thought it was to be scored as a one ... that's disturbing to me ... and i was hoping by posting here - i'd get some feedback ... that's all :)

It's like getting graded in school and the reason behind it ...
I thought this was one of my better submissions and it turned out almost one of my worst ...

ehh - ya live and learn ... but ya cant learn without comments :)


I usually don't tell people the scores I gave them, nor do I rationalize/justify those scores. I have a number of reasons for that. So, based on that I'll just say that you fell slightly above average.

Why?

I recognized it as a Jones "ad" whether you saw it as such or not. However, there isn't one single complete very recognizable logo anywhere on the bottle. Too much searching for product identity unless you're already familiar with the product. (I understand that it is there, but it's in bits and pieces.) I think I saw you mention primary colors elsewhere -- maybe if the lead bottle had come off more yellow than green, I might have upped the score a little from where I did. Ultimately, while I like the close up, I think perhaps it was a bit too close. Maybe a crop that would have included just the top of the label (the part that says Jones Soda on it) from the front bottle would have helped. These are my thoughts on it anyway. I'm sorry I didn't comment any earlier, but I was out of town for most of the week.
07/08/2002 05:25:46 PM · #20
hey patella - that's cool and thank you for your input ... I'm not too worried about those that didnt comment at all and I know my image wasnt perfect .. but the large amount of the really really low scores just bothered me and i wanted to know how to fix it ...

yes .. the shot does look like an ad for Jones Soda ... and - if you saw my kitchen - you'd understand why - LOL .. i love the soda and have filled the bottles in the appropriate colors and decorated the tops of my cabinets ... but anyways ... I just thought i would play with the colors and any colors can be made out of red, blue and yellow ... maybe i will try the shot again and lighten the yellow to help the effect ..

again .. thank you for your feedback :)
07/08/2002 05:26:24 PM · #21
I make it a policy to always comment on ALL my low end votes. I first vote on everything, with the occasional comment on something I found to be great, then I go back and spend the week commenting from my bottom vote up. Unfortunately, there are many reasons folks will vote 1 or 2 that have nothing to do with constructive critique. I'm certain there is some small minority that vote everything low because they are antisocial misfits that want to hurt anyone and everyone... Some I'm sure are cast to lower the votes in hopes it will improve the chances for an entry by a friend/relative/self... Some folks see 2 shades, black and white. They are likely to vote 1 or 10...

Best to just let it slide and mark it down as the slimey side of a free exchange of ideas... Even the clueless will want to put in their 2 cents.

But that's just me... Maybe I'm wrong.
07/08/2002 05:28:46 PM · #22
Originally posted by myqyl:
I make it a policy to always comment on ALL my low end votes. I first vote on everything, with the occasional comment on something I found to be great, then I go back and spend the week commenting from my bottom vote up. Unfortunately, there are many reasons folks will vote 1 or 2 that have nothing to do with constructive critique. I'm certain there is some small minority that vote everything low because they are antisocial misfits that want to hurt anyone and everyone... Some I'm sure are cast to lower the votes in hopes it will improve the chances for an entry by a friend/relative/self... Some folks see 2 shades, black and white. They are likely to vote 1 or 10...

Best to just let it slide and mark it down as the slimey side of a free exchange of ideas... Even the clueless will want to put in their 2 cents.

But that's just me... Maybe I'm wrong.


You are not wrong at all :)



07/08/2002 05:48:48 PM · #23
Amy for the record you got a 7 from me. I was somewhat guilty in not adding comments to my shots this week. I think I commented on John's and a couple others, I didnt even get a chance to vote on all the shots either.

To me the voting here is waaaaayyyyyy off. I thought my frustration was only when I posted photos, but I've been getting pissed the past 3 weeks and I didnt even submit anything.

I will not pick on a specific photo but there was one photo which was not really all that great and it was out of focus. The shot ended up getting what it should of but there were 15 votes that thought it was an 8 or higher. On the other hand the best photo as voted had 12 people that thought it was a 3 or lower.

I know that kind of averages out but still an out of focus shot gets 8s and higher and a brilliant photo gets 7 1s.

Well I submitted something this week hopefully I can break 4 (below average).
07/09/2002 07:59:42 AM · #24
The majority of people especially those who donot submit photo's will not comment because they are intimidated. Do you honestly think they are incapable of reading this portion of the website?
There may be some who vote for family member or friend by giving a ten & low votes to everyone else. They can easily be weeded out! If I know who the person is who posted the photo I will not vote on it. I gave my own family member a one--told that person why too and she still was upset with me!
Participants don't want to appear stupid is another reason but they know they don't like the photo. One thing that might help is the way the photo is taken: re comments afterward being available when you vote might help.
Subject matter may be offensive to that voter. There is one person who submits that always seems to post a sexually orientated picture. I find it offensive & that dude is going to get a one. That person knows exactly why he is getting low votes! We are constantly bombarbed in our society with sex until it has become boring!
Creativity is in the eye of the beholder. What you think is creative may be crap to someone else. Nothing you can do about that. They have a right to their opinion and you have a right to yours.
I have not been on site for sometime but I personally like to recognize what I am looking at even in a photo--this may not matter to someone else. If you are going to have a subject then comply with it or expect low results.
Question: I did not realize when I first logged in here that you would be asked to comment and I used my real name. I wrote to the adm. of the web site and ask to change that--no response. Every one else is annoymous--except me. Dumb huh?
07/09/2002 09:04:39 AM · #25
Ruth,

Noone here is really totally anonymous, unless that use a false name in their profile page. Anyone can click on a userid next to a comment to get to the profile page, which has the user''s full name.

The one thing that does kind of irritate me is the inconsistent use of userid and user name throughout the site. In most places (such as in the comments area and in the forums), you see userid''s. In other places (such as when viewing a full photo in the results area), you see a full name-- which makes it a bit harder to correlate the photo to a particular user.

* This message has been edited by the author on 7/9/2002 9:04:50 AM.
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